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Fringe - Show discussion


Docteur Qui

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Oho. I always forget that I have access to my girlfriend's Netflix. I may take a little break from the show, though the shortened season is enticing.

At this point I'm honestly only watching for Tilton's score, which amplifies the mediocre writing and direction. Not liking the Observers taking over the world thing. I had always thought that they couldn't show emotion, but guess not. I also found it odd that William Bell has had an entirely different life in this 'reset' universe.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Just started season 1. I know I've caught random shows years ago, before I quit because I could not schedule regular viewing. Now with Netflix, I'll catch up. But the chicken salad I'm eating looks exactly like the skin condition in the airplane. I think I'm going to be sick...

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So is this as cliffhanger gimmicky as Lost then? Are they writing blind or did they have an end game in mind from the start?

I'd think about trialing it if I knew it wasn't gonna play silly buggers with the viewer.

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Fringe has a very tangled mythology, but in the end it's more about the emotional journey of the characters. The plot starts out as a relatively simple tale of two universes, but as the series goes on it becomes increasingly beholden to time travel. Logic eventually goes out the window in favor of sentimentality. So if you aren't going to enjoy it unless it all makes sense at the end (or even MOSTLY makes sense) you might as well stop watching now. But if you're prepared to put logic on hold, the emotional core of the series -- although it gets a little muddled at times -- holds up pretty well.

And yes, the music by Chris Tilton is some of the best written for television in recent years. Real instruments, and real CHARACTER THEMES that are coherently developed as the show evolves.

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That actually sounds like my cup of tea, at least partly - it's indeed the flaws in the logic and breaking of immersion these shows tend to fall into that grate the most with me. I'm fine with putting reality on hold and I'll accept alternate universe rules and lyrical narrative style etc - so long as it's 'believable' in execution and doesn't take the viewer for a mug. I hate contrived BS plotting and gimmicks, which I felt Lost was all but built upon.

Fringe is relatively low on the BS factor, then?

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For the first 13 episodes it's more of a monster of the week type show like X-Files, then the mythology slowly starts to build.

I personally feel they ran out of steam after 4 seasons, and season 5 is pretty meh, but they knew it was the last going in, and it has a real ending that wraps up everything.

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I'm fine with putting reality on hold and I'll accept alternate universe rules and lyrical narrative style etc - so long as it's 'believable' in execution and doesn't take the viewer for a mug.

That's just it, they don't seem to have any rules anymore that make sense in the last two seasons. For the first three, though, it's incredibly consistent and rewarding. Then "love" becomes the cause of everything again - cf Lost and Harry Potter - even when a more logical explanation would easily make sense.

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Quint - I'd still encourage you to watch the first three seasons :) Don't think you'll regret it. Fourth season is actually good as well (if you get beyond the one plot explanation) - and has an ending you can watch as series finale in fact.

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I think the constant fear of being canceled really made them do things they wouldn't have done if they knew for sure they'd have more time to tell their story. The soft reboot they did halfway through to try to attract new viewers hurt the show too much for me. Still a very enjoyable show, but could have been much better.

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Yeah, someone at FOX really liked the show, and WB was willing to keep it going as well (seeing as they produced it).

Still something I'd like to rewatch again down the road, though I think I'd stop at the Season 3 finale. It was a nice ending and I almost wish it did get canceled in a way, though I did enjoy Season 5 quite a bit, perhaps a cut down miniseries version of Season 4 is in my future.

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  • 3 weeks later...

So I've got 5 episodes left of the show and not much has really happened. I just don't like where this show has gone. Constantly changing universes has left me lost to a point where I don't even know these peoples' backgrounds anymore. I guess they settled on the one without Peter existing being the dominant one, which makes more than half of the show completely pointless. The whole William Bell, Walter Bishop, and Nina Sharp dynamic is incredibly different than the one they spent developing for 3 years. Hate where they went with the Observers. Such an interesting aspect turned into mundane villainy. Why the hell are there no women Observers? Not a single one. If they're supposed to be an advanced race evolved from humans, how did they reproduce? But now apparently all you need is a Matrix worm in the back of your head to become one. They're no longer special, or even kind. September and the other 3 or 4 of them seemed docile and, well, observant. Why are they malicious and invading Earth? It's never explained.

I liked the idea of taking their old Fringe assignments and turning them into their own weapons, but they could have gone a bit further than just referencing 3 cases. Astrid is pretty much useless this season, they should have killed her off when they had the chance. Don't even get me started on Etta. That relationship had no chemistry or believability at all, not to mention it being just weird that she was only 10 years younger than her parents. Just didn't sit well. Not enough Broyles, what happened to Olivia's sister and her daughter? Charlie simply vanished. Lincoln is off in the alternate universe. I guess the Observers left them alone to live happily ever after? Everything in the show culminated to Bell trying to create his own universe, but that all ended in Season 4. Season 5 seems like a completely different story. The writers pretty much went, "Well we got nothing left and we haven't explained the Observers, let's just do this whole Terminator thing."

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I was incredibly disappointed in Season 4, and actually felt that Season 5 was a much better season overall. I still hate what they did to the universe and creating this weird alternate timeline starting in 4, but 5 at least felt more character driven which I liked, and I enjoyed the Observers for what they were. Nothing is as interesting after its been explained when there's still a mystery (cough - LOST - cough) but I felt they did a good enough job with them and served as a suitable way to end the show.

They had a seven year plan, and pretty much condensed all those last three years into one season, which is a same as it seems some of that stuff would have been far more interesting to play out than what they wasted time on in the fourth season.

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Hate where they went with the Observers. Such an interesting aspect turned into mundane villainy. Why the hell are there no women Observers? Not a single one. If they're supposed to be an advanced race evolved from humans, how did they reproduce? But now apparently all you need is a Matrix worm in the back of your head to become one. They're no longer special, or even kind. September and the other 3 or 4 of them seemed docile and, well, observant. Why are they malicious and invading Earth? It's never explained.

The Observers' way of reproduction and their life in general in 2609 are explained near the end, maybe in episode 11. The roles of September and the other original 11 are also explained. You might not like the explanation, but it's at least explained.

As for why they're "malicious and invading Earth," in the season 4 episode "Letters of Transit," Walter explains that in 2609, where the Observers are from, the world has become so polluted that they can no longer live there, which is why they decided to come back to 2015.

They had a seven year plan, and pretty much condensed all those last three years into one season, which is a same as it seems some of that stuff would have been far more interesting to play out than what they wasted time on in the fourth season.

I really wish they could've continued with their plan as they originally wanted to. I thought the beginning of season 4 was aggravating, but I enjoyed the season overall, and I respect the team for making a drastic decision like they did and sticking with it. I think it would've been a cop out for an Observer (September or someone else) to push a button and make everything better, even though that's what we would've liked.

If they didn't have to worry about viewership and statistics, I bet season 4 would've played out differently. But we got what we got, and I'm just thankful for that. I think it would be cool if the unproduced seasons could get incorporated into comics or something later on.

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I was incredibly disappointed in Season 4, and actually felt that Season 5 was a much better season overall. I still hate what they did to the universe and creating this weird alternate timeline starting in 4, but 5 at least felt more character driven which I liked, and I enjoyed the Observers for what they were. Nothing is as interesting after its been explained when there's still a mystery (cough - LOST - cough) but I felt they did a good enough job with them and served as a suitable way to end the show.

They had a seven year plan, and pretty much condensed all those last three years into one season, which is a same as it seems some of that stuff would have been far more interesting to play out than what they wasted time on in the fourth season.

Didn't realize they had a longer plan for the show. Don't know if I could take that much more of it though. I never found the answers in LOST to be lackluster; and they left some more of the interesting ones left open actually, which I liked.

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The Observers' way of reproduction and their life in general in 2609 are explained near the end, maybe in episode 11. The roles of September and the other original 11 are also explained. You might not like the explanation, but it's at least explained.

As for why they're "malicious and invading Earth," in the season 4 episode "Letters of Transit," Walter explains that in 2609, where the Observers are from, the world has become so polluted that they can no longer live there, which is why they decided to come back to 2015.

...which doesn't seem very future-proof to me (wasn't that also the premise for this dinosaur-series-thing last year or so?). The way the Observers seemed to treat the Earth after their invasion, I'd guess it would have gotten polluted much quicker this time around... and what then? Back again 600 years? Settle America before Columbus arrived? Overrun the Middle Ages? Overthrow the Roman Empire?

I agree, though, the strength of Season 5 was in the character-driven parts... and some exceptionally quirky ideas ("Through the looking glass..." and the Python bit).

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I agree, though, the strength of Season 5 was in the character-driven parts... and some exceptionally quirky ideas ("Through the looking glass..." and the Python bit).

The Python bit was one of the most brilliantly whacky things I've ever seen in a drama series.

I still have that song as my alarm sound.

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Just finished the finale and guess what? It was fucking awesome. I was truly baffled by how well they sent this mess of a series off. My only issue with it was the last minute change of using a shipping lane to cross over into the future, completely rendering everything else in Season 5 pointless (sound familiar?). All the time searching for the damn tapes, finding all the parts for the machine, just to be tossed away for something they already knew they could use but just didn't happen to think of. Deus ex machina is an understatement. Other than that, I thought the action was incredibly well handled, which is not common for this show. Most of the time it's just people with infinite ammo blindly shooting at each other. That kinda happened here too, but it was weighed down by the great character moments; and the drop of comic relief with Walter's anti-gravity bullets was hilarious. Also loved how they went back for more Fringe-cidents as weapons. Not to mention Tilton's kick ass score. I don't think the main theme was used at all this season, so when it kicked in the climax was really elevated, I thought. Perfect moment, and then when the family theme (or is it more properly Etta's theme?) kicks in when Peter and her touch even got me misty eyed.

It was ultimately just "The Incident" from LOST, honestly, but for this show it worked perfectly.

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I kinda remember liking the finale more than the average season 5 episode, which I was overall quite disappointed with. Tilton's music was always awesome though. I never really learned the various themes, gotta do that sometime.

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I don't know. For me, Tilton's music never really was able to shine like (and I hate continuously comparing the two) LOST's did, but it does have its kick ass moments. I think the tone and soundscape he started with Giacchino and Seiter fits the show like a glove, but that's not always a good thing.

There's a great show within the universe, but it takes an active viewer to piece it together themselves, I think. Still surprised by the finale.

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Oh, the Fringe score is leagues apart from Lost, but it wasn't trying to be Lost ever either.

I agree that Fringe (the show) somehow never lived up to the full potential the premise and setup had. If they hadn't done the soft reboot and hadn't made a character played by a retiring actor with limited availability so important it probably would have helped.

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Oh, the Fringe score is leagues apart from Lost, but it wasn't trying to be Lost ever either.

I agree that Fringe (the show) somehow never lived up to the full potential the premise and setup had. If they hadn't done the soft reboot and hadn't made a character played by a retiring actor with limited availability so important it probably would have helped.

I think the show would have been much better served with someone else playing Bell. Nimoy was good, but him retiring (sort of) halfway through definitely hurt the show and probably made them rework a lot of what they had planned. Now, if they had gotten Shatner instead of Nimoy, just imagine how good it would have been seeing him and Noble play off of each other.

The producers got the wrong Captain.

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Now, if they had gotten Shatner instead of Nimoy, just imagine how good it would have been seeing him and Noble play off of each other.

The episode with Noble and Nimoy had some powerful scenes.

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Oh, they played wonderfully with each other, I just wish there was more of it. If it was Shatner, it would have been great, but in a zany and crazy kind of way instead.

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Breaking Bad, LOST, and Dollhouse the only Blu ray TV shows I own. I'd get Carnivale if that even comes out in Blu.

It's pretty rare I want to watch a show I've already seen all the way through again. I pretty much only watch things I haven't seen before these days when I have time to watch TV.

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