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Star Trek Into Darkness SPOILERS ALLOWED Discussion Thread


Jay

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Well one sounds like music for an eighties fantasy adventure film, Gia's theme seems to be menacing and like a thriller, as if it was to fit in a Nolan Batman movie (if it had decent music).

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lets be honest here, MG is incapable of writing a Star Trek score as good as Horners Wrath of Khan, or even Search For Spock, if he was he would have already done so, as it is this one looks to sound pretty much like the same shit as before.

I see the double standard is in play again.

Horner "steals" from some dead Russian, and its plagerism,

MG "borrows" from some dead Japanese, and it's an homage.

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  • 2 weeks later...

So yeah, the film is basically a mirror story to Wrath of Khan. It's one of those course-correcting destiny things. At least that's how it plays out on film. Even Spock asks another Spock if he ever encountered someone named Khan when they're not sure if he's good or bad. The nods are quite heavy handed, yeah. The film should be called Wrath of Spock, because of its finale where Spock and Khan beat the shit out of each other. Which seems quite out of character for this pointy-eared man, at least if you're used to the older incarnation. This new Spock is a ticking bomb. And yeah, the infamous line is there as well, which I found very unfortunate...

Had I never seen the old series, I would have said it's a pretty enjoyable. But because I'm aware of (at least some) references, it doesn't seem very clever. No need to do that.

But there are some cool twists in the film as well. The bit I liked the most is when you and Kirk actually believe Khan. And for a portion of the film he actually fights alongside Kirk. I thought that would have been brilliant if he wasn't a villain in the end. Not so, unfortunately.

Karol

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Both. And that's the most accurate answer. The good bits are much better, the bad bits are worse. Or to be even more exact, I think the tone isn't very consistent. The film tries to be darker, but it's also plays up the silly bits. Not sure if it works. It's kind of ADHD.

Also depends on if you embrace Star Trek as a breakneck ridiculous action film. 2009 is tame compared to this one.

Karol

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lets be honest here, MG is incapable of writing a Star Trek score as good as Horners Wrath of Khan, or even Search For Spock, if he was he would have already done so,

If you've seen the Giacchino interview from Lucerne, you should recall that he wrote Star Trek music how he thought Star Trek music should sound, in the vein of Horner and Goldsmith. He eventually discarded it because they wanted another direction. So, the deviation from established Star Trek is intentional, and not based on MG's lack of skill.

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Croc's review is sad because it indicates that 40+ years of Star Trek history, and they had to go back to the Khan well again? I can appreciate Nick Meyer being captivated to pick up the Space Seed story, but that's because it was one of the better TOS stories and was still relatively recent. This... After all this time, with the clean slate presented by an alternate timeline, this is the best they could come up with? And Paramount backed it? Such a wasted opportunity.

Wah.

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Don't concentrate so much on the negative. You might still like the film. I didn't hate it or anything. But some things need to be pointed out. Hollywood has always been about repetition. It's the same as Man of Steel telling the same story as Superman and Superman II. Same old, same old.

Karol

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Is retread really a concern though?

If they repackaged the same movie with a different character name and slightly different plot details would you hail it as a better story?

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It's not the same exact movie. But some of the crucial elements are almost identical.

The story itself isn't bad. But the film has so much stuff in it, it's hard to really to concentrate. Let me give you one example: the opening IMAX preview was there solely to establish an antagonism between Spock and Kirk, which "erupts" after they comes back from the mission. As a result Enterprise is taken away from Kirk, but 5 minutes later he's a first officer and then another 5 minutes he's captain again. And that tension between Spock and Kirk lasted about a few minutes. True there are some elements came into play later in the story in some way (that Spock is seen as calculated and inhuman), but it kind of made the first 10 minutes pointless.

And that's the problem with the film as a whole - it moves too fast.

Karol

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And that's the problem with the film as a whole - it moves too fast.

Karol

What else is warp speed for?

Anyhow, I saw it last night. I imagine some fans will be disappointed because it isn't "their" Trek, but whatever. There's never a boring moment and that's what matters in a film that doesn't take itself too seriously.

The plot was a bit clunky in how it moved along, but once all that set up with the cryogenic missiles is over and done with, it lifts off and soars. Even Peter Weller makes for a very strong and intimidating secondary villain. If Kirk hadn't ordered Scotty to stun Khan when they reached the bridge of the USS Vengeance and instead allowed him to kill Admiral Marcus, I wonder how the rest of the story would have turned out? Would Kirk have just let Khan take his "family" and be done with it?

Can't wait for the score album and Varese's subsequent 2-disc "Deluxe Edition" sans vocals. ;)

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lets be honest here, MG is incapable of writing a Star Trek score as good as Horners Wrath of Khan, or even Search For Spock, if he was he would have already done so,

If you've seen the Giacchino interview from Lucerne, you should recall that he wrote Star Trek music how he thought Star Trek music should sound, in the vein of Horner and Goldsmith. He eventually discarded it because they wanted another direction. So, the deviation from established Star Trek is intentional, and not based on MG's lack of skill.

give us a Star Trek theme MAN.

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even in the very weak Nemesis the Enterprise has a believable engine room,

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The secondary themes are also very weak.

They are. The main theme is the only arguably strong theme/motif in Giacchino's scores. Unfortunately he's been exhausting that theme so much it makes him seem like a "one-trick pony" when it comes to the Trek scores.

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it just occured to Dave and I that into darkness is the 2nd remake of Wrath of Khan, 3rd if you count X-Men United.

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Unfortunately he's been exhausting that theme so much it makes him seem like a "one-trick pony" when it comes to the Trek scores.

If you think this theme repeats that often, you must die a little inside every time you hear Vader's theme in ESB, then.

And if you ever listened to The Fury, surely you'd stab your ears out to avoid hearing the F G# C C# C G# over...and over...and...over...and over again. :P

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And yet, I find both those themes far more interesting than Giacchino's main theme. ;)

The Trek theme doesn't fare too well with variations and repetition, there's something off about it all.

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it just occured to Dave and I that into darkness is the 2nd remake of Wrath of Khan, 3rd if you count X-Men United.

You're forgetting Nemesis.

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it just occured to Dave and I that into darkness is the 2nd remake of Wrath of Khan, 3rd if you count X-Men United.

You're forgetting Nemesis.

And/or Star Trek 2009.

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I don't recall a rule that states a film has to have multiple themes in its music.

There are 3 strong themes that I've heard so far in the new film, the Main theme, Spock's theme and Harrison's theme.



it just occured to Dave and I that into darkness is the 2nd remake of Wrath of Khan, 3rd if you count X-Men United.

You're forgetting Nemesis.

And/or Star Trek 2009.

And Moby Dick.....

oh wait....

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it just occured to Dave and I that into darkness is the 2nd remake of Wrath of Khan, 3rd if you count X-Men United.

You're forgetting Nemesis.

I was counting Nemesis, and Into Darkness,

Blume I don't consider 2009 a remake of WoK

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which makes it a wrath of khan story after all.

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it's a remake in Abrams rebooted universe.

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that is a fucking ripoff anyway you look at it.

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Joe how are you not aware that ticket prices are different all across the country!?

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No Jason, I didn't have a clue. Wow, I am so shocked.

still doesn't change the fact that 15 bucks is a fucking ripoff no matter how you look at it.

Blume, poor poor Blume, and I say that literally and figuratively, 11 bucks for matinee is also a ripoff.

now I get adding on for Imax and 3D adds extra cost.... but....

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In addition to be fair we have comfy seats with comfy headrests and plenty of leg room. And stadium seating. And a good sound system.

The crappier theaters are $11 for an evening showing and $9 for a matinee.

By being more expensive, it also reduces the teenage population in the theater. There's value in that surcharge for me.

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Guess what Joey? His salary is higher, and so is real estate!

It's all relative.

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Blume is the 15 with 3D?



Guess what Joey? His salary is higher, and so is real estate!

It's all relative.

higher than what? are you trying to make some class warfare bullshit point.

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Are you not aware that base salaries, real estate prices, movie ticket prices, and many other things fluctuate around the country!?

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Jason, I know you don't have much of an opinion of me but Jeez, I've been all over this country, have a BSBA and an MBA, I'm an auditor, and currently work in legal for the gov't. I moved to the part of the state I live in because real estate prices are lower so I can get more bang for my buck. So the answer to your question is NO I have no ideal.

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If you are aware, than why are you so flabbergasted that a ticket price could cost in one part of the country$15? You don't make any sense!

I imagine your head would explode if you saw Manhattan ticket prices...

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So you think that makes the price justifiable.

Whats makes my head explode is how you love to talk down to me, as if you're all high and mighty yourself. I'm just a body with a bloody neck stump.

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Some of the things that shock you just make no sense to me, but what do I know

Peace and love! <3

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