What Is The Last Score You Listened To? (older scores)

[crocodile 8,000]

OK, fair enough. But you did say it was great.

But now "you need to check it out".

Which one is it then?

You can't seem to decide.

Karol

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

The Amazing Spider-Man 2 - Hans Zimmer

I don't know. Y'all went gaga over this one, but I don't see it. It's a pretty standard Zimmer effort, with exceptional highlights balanced out by sonic wankery, though maybe a bit less wankery than you might expect. Could do without what I assume is Pharrell's whispering or whatever it is, could do without the "dubby" stuff. The theme is just... eh, though as Mr. Shark claimed, it does get a stirring treatment in the final track, which, combined with the penultimate track, is a very moving sequence. There's an infectious liveliness to the score, with those rather retro synth pulses, and a good deal of heart in the more intimate moments. Also plenty of interesting, occasionally brilliant, harmonic and especially textural ideas, which Hans is always reliable for. Like MoS, it makes my mouth water in anticipation of what he'll do with these new colors and textures when applied to Interstellar.

So, I liked it, but I'm just surprised that this was what got some of you to utter the name of Zimmer without venomous disdain. I guess all you have to do to get Publicist hot and bothered is add woodwinds!

[crocodile 8,000]

I don't think it was about it being amazing and/or groundbreaking. It was about it being... fun and enjoyable. Most Zimmer scores lack that. Or, should I say, they tend to be very monochrome and same all the time. At least this time he gets to play around with themes and soundscape a bit more. It's varied.

In short, I wouldn't necessarily equate positive response with masterpiece status.

Karol

[Jay 37,339]

The Amazing Spider-Man 2 - Hans Zimmer

I don't know. Y'all went gaga over this one,

Er, does anybody here except Sharky and Crocky like it?

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Pub and KK

[crocodile 8,000]

KK does. And even Mark Olivarez said it had some interesting stuff.

Karol

[KK 3,307]

Yeah. From what I could tell, Karol, pub and I never claimed it was a masterpiece. Its an enjoyable package of creative ideas with merit, which is more than can be said for what he did for Superman and Batman.

There are a lot of really nice colourful, harmonic stuff at work in this score, and then there's the really obnoxious dub step and more generic ideas. But as a whole, it is something you can enjoy.

[crocodile 8,000]

The dubstep doesn't really make much of an impression in the film, except for a few brief moments. The Aaron Copland theme is the most distinctive feature. Too bad it's almost always the same variation.

Karol

[KK 3,307]

Even on album, I wasn't too impressed with how the theme is varied. There's the heroic fanfare statement, that plays the same all throughout, sometimes abruptly cut off. And then the emotional piano-led variations. But its a good theme and has some great rousing moments.

And I'm guessing the dub step blends well with the sound effects, so it wouldn't be intrusive.

BTW, I recently listened to some of the songs on the second CD. Did Pharell Williams write the love theme? The song "Here" is based on it and only Williams is credited for it.

[crocodile 8,000]

Well, because there is so much stuff going on, the voices kind of blend in. Dubstep sticks out more in the final battle sequence (but then it kind of breaks the fourth wall as well). The woodwinds actually make more of a statement than those, in the early scenes.

Love theme would be the second most prominent thing. A lot of sappy stuff in the film, so that gets it covered.

Oh and there is Oscorp material (basically the second track on the album) that comes back a lot.

EDIT: In the booklet Zimmer, Marr and Williams are all credited for Here song.

Karol

[Sir Hilary Bray 235]

finally got round to listening to the Taxi Driver soundtrack. Bearing in mind I've not seen the film I found it all the same atmospheric. Such an incredible sound in parts. And this after listening to hefty chunks of Empire Strikes Back earlier.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Yeesh, I didn't say any of you said it was a masterpiece, amazing, or groundbreaking! But you all enjoyed it, and I just think there have been more enjoyable Zimmer scores that didn't elicit the same reactions here.

[KK 3,307]

There are definitely more enjoyable Zimmer scores.

But TASM2 > MOS, Batman, and a lot of his recent work

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

The Amazing Spider-Man 2 - Hans Zimmer

I don't know. Y'all went gaga over this one, but I don't see it. It's a pretty standard Zimmer effort, with exceptional highlights balanced out by sonic wankery, though maybe a bit less wankery than you might expect. Could do without what I assume is Pharrell's whispering or whatever it is, could do without the "dubby" stuff. The theme is just... eh, though as Mr. Shark claimed, it does get a stirring treatment in the final track, which, combined with the penultimate track, is a very moving sequence. There's an infectious liveliness to the score, with those rather retro synth pulses, and a good deal of heart in the more intimate moments. Also plenty of interesting, occasionally brilliant, harmonic and especially textural ideas, which Hans is always reliable for. Like MoS, it makes my mouth water in anticipation of what he'll do with these new colors and textures when applied to Interstellar.

So, I liked it, but I'm just surprised that this was what got some of you to utter the name of Zimmer without venomous disdain. I guess all you have to do to get Publicist hot and bothered is add woodwinds!

Ok, I listened again and I get the unusual appeal a little more.

[Kühni 485]

.

[publicist 4,643]

There are definitely more enjoyable Zimmer scores.

But TASM2 > MOS, Batman, and a lot of his recent work

On a general positive note i might say that 2014 shapes up to be a rather good year for filmmusic - even without all the old pro's (I'm a bit sad that Horner seems to have retired from filmscoring, more or less ). The Desplat's, Pierre Adenot's BELLE ET LA BETE, now this Zimmer etc. and there are major scores on the horizon that i have great faith in (i'm looking at you, James Newton Howard's MALEFICENT with a mix of trepidation, fear and hope).

The general trend (cautiously) indicates that composers get a bit more leeway and respect and if GODZILLA turns out a success we might even have the first blockbuster in a long time not modelled on the RCP library sound.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Empire Of The Sun

Is it me or do parts of Zam The Assasin/Chase Through Coruscant strongly resemble The Streets Of Shanghai?

[Incanus 5,714]

Empire Of The Sun

Is it me or do parts of Zam The Assasin/Chase Through Coruscant strongly resemble The Streets Of Shanghai?

There are a few moments of similar percussive energy here and there now that you mention it. It is certainly closer to JP or some other modern Williams action music in that it is interested in the pure forward motion (unused as it was for the most part in the film) rather than heavily melodic balletic thematic propelling of the story. It is also more panicky in a psychological way as it amplifies what Jim is feeling or his point of view, the sheer panic and terror that makes the whole scene more dangerous and horrifying than it actually is.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Yeah It's possible the earliest example of "modern" John Williams action scoring. Favoring deliberately chaotic rhythms over melody and the hummable rhythms he was known for at that time.

In that scene this frantic energy has a clear function, something that I can't say for many of the later uses of that style.

[Incanus 5,714]

Yeah It's possible the earliest example of "modern" John Williams action scoring. Favoring deliberately chaotic rhythms over melody and the hummable rhythms he was known for at that time.

In that scene this frantic energy has a clear function, something that I can't say for many of the later uses of that style.

I would argue that here is always a purpose and function but I would rather look at how music is treated in a picture. Williams himself has often said in interviews how in modern movies the score often has to complete and indeed win its place in the sound mix as there is so much going on all the time, especially in the action scenes. Even though we have things like Zam the Assassin giving the action the beat and push there are million sound effects and dialogue all vying for space. You can say that the modern action music often is so focused on the pure kinetic energy it might lose some of the subtextual elements a piece of music could offer to a scene. This is of course not always he sole onus of the composer but rather of the collaborating film makers.

[Hlao-roo 389]

Tbh I'm not sure that attempting to replicate the on screen chaos sonically is the best way to achieve prominence in the sound mix.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I agree. It adds just another layer of frantic loudness to an already dense soundscape.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

It depends what frequency ranges the score and sound fx occupy.

[Incanus 5,714]

Tbh I'm not sure that attempting to replicate the on screen chaos sonically is the best way to achieve prominence in the sound mix.

Well I am not suggesting that but it is the "more of everything" approach that saturates modern movies, where the composer is often called upon to replicate the on screen chaos with loud music. I can't imagine it being easy to write music that stays afloat in all the sonic maelstrom. Williams is of course guilty of sometimes doing musical action painting in a way that the music actually comes close to being half sound effect in a way it replicates with Mickey Mousey precision the actions and movements on screen.

I agree. It adds just another layer of frantic loudness to an already dense soundscape.

Again agreed. They should spot the films a bit better when music is concerned and really decide where to play the score and where to let the other sounds carry the scene. It has been forgotten in the wall-to-wall world of modern sound design and scoring.

It depends what frequency ranges the score and sound fx occupy.

Well it depends on that but largely on where the film makers think the focus should lie on any given moment or the whole scene. Naturally such frequency dynamics come into play but the trouble is that they don't necessarily always accomodate the music beforehand or even anticipate all the numerous soundtracks running through a busy scene. The flipside is that sounds can be changed quite quickly and painlessly these days. Music still requires that person to rewrite it (usually).

[Faleel 5,345]

The flipside is that sounds can be changed quite quickly and painlessly these days.

So can CGI elements

[Incanus 5,714]

The flipside is that sounds can be changed quite quickly and painlessly these days.

So can CGI elements

Relatively easy for CGI. Needs some sleepless nights from a hall full of CGI visual artists.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,512]

Yeah It's possible the earliest example of "modern" John Williams action scoring. Favoring deliberately chaotic rhythms over melody and the hummable rhythms he was known for at that time.

In that scene this frantic energy has a clear function, something that I can't say for many of the later uses of that style.

Interesting post, which begs the question: what happened inbetween "TOD", and "ETOS", or even "TWOE", and "EOTS"? What triggered the stylistic shift?

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Yeah It's possible the earliest example of "modern" John Williams action scoring. Favoring deliberately chaotic rhythms over melody and the hummable rhythms he was known for at that time.

In that scene this frantic energy has a clear function, something that I can't say for many of the later uses of that style.

Interesting post, which begs the question: what happened inbetween "TOD", and "ETOS", or even "TWOE", and "EOTS"? What triggered the stylistic shift?

This happened.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,512]

Sharkey, I am unable to see your post (access denied), so...what happened?

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

It was a YouTube link to 'Training Montage' from SPACE CAMP-- a film and score so utterly dire that it must have detoxed his very soul.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,512]

Oh, I don't know.The main title is not bad, as is "Max Finds Courage", and "White Sands". The "lift-off" music (sorry;don't remember its title!) is quite good. But you are right: it's not "E.T.", is it? I once did my own 12" remix of "Training Montage". It didn't improve it...

[Sir Hilary Bray 235]

expanded Phantom Menace.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

The first 40 seconds of Search for the Borg over and over again.

[nightscape94 965]

The Amazing Spider-man 2. It's built like a rock concept album, and sounds like one too. I'm not even what you'd consider a moderate Zimmer fan (I tend to dislike almost everything I've heard from him, if that gives you an idea), but in all honesty there are a handful of neat moments and some interesting ideas here. The album presentation seems pretty diverse stylistically with a wide range of instrumentation. Listenable, if a bit scattered, flows in and out of one thing and on to another without any real direction, but not entirely ineffective.

[Incanus 5,714]

Oh, I don't know.The main title is not bad, as is "Max Finds Courage", and "White Sands". The "lift-off" music (sorry;don't remember its title!) is quite good. But you are right: it's not "E.T.", is it? I once did my own 12" remix of "Training Montage". It didn't improve it...

No it is certainly not a bad score. Some great JW moments in there but the recording is a bit dry I find. Erich Kunzel and Cincinnati Pops have recorded a killer version of the End Credits with great deal of pomp and pizzazz and energy. It certainly has the definite sweep of the 1980's Williams.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Yes, absolutely, I do indeed concur wholeheartedly. Erich Kunzel not only conducted a superior rendition of the SpaceCamp end credits but also Star Trek IV's main title on the same album. I don't know why both of those scores sound kinda poor in their original recording/mixing. It must have been an 80s thing.

[Faleel 5,345]

Its a Dan Wallin thing (Star Trek IV atleast)

[Sir Hilary Bray 235]

Attack of the Clones, expanded

looking at it, most of my favourite bits of the film's music comes on Tatooine. Starting with the segue into Duel of the Fates then the music for Anakin's change, how the Imperial theme thunders into sound and music for Shimi's funeral. Other aspects are good, always been a fan of the love theme -certainly watching it in the cinema all those years ago being swayed by the theme as it played over the now-somewhat cringeworthy lovefest between Padme and Anakin at the arena.

Expanding on the above mention of Phantom, more and more is music for when Anakin walks away from Shimi to folloq Qui-Gonn. The way the Star Wars/Jedi theme flares and sounds. Or how the theme sounds, however shortly (I think 3 seconds ish) when Qui-Gonn puts his lightsaber into the door on the Trade ship at the beginning -no matter its shortness, how it sounds just...well it works. Lifts dire movies into something else, hence why I tend to look at that first viewing of Sith differently. Recent listens of Empire and Jedi demonstrate how different 'soundings' of the Imperial theme can move even, Vader's death scene or the final sequence in Sith (something about the latter that worked so well -a sound of finality, that for now the Empire have won, the Jedi are no more, Padme's dead...)

Similarly, how the Star Wars/Jedi/Alliance theme sounds, with great urgency and drama during Battle in the Snow. The Rebels are losing, are retrating followed by a quick urgent Imperial theme.

And then there was Han Solo & The Princess.

[nightscape94 965]

James Horner - Cocoon (Intrada release). Quite lovely.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

watching it in the cinema all those years ago being swayed by the theme as it played over the now-somewhat cringeworthy lovefest between Padme and Anakin at the arena.

Only now and only "somewhat"?

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

English understatement.

[crocodile 8,000]

War Horse, Far and Away and The Book Thief. That was in the morning.

As well as two Kloss Ben-Hur LP albums, in the early afternoom

The Gospel of John

Karol

[Sir Hilary Bray 235]

English understatement.

Exactly.

That and I have a growing problem of word construction.

[Herosix 1]

How does this make you feel?

It sounds great and brilliant to me I like it ! Have you another ?

Incanus: I've read all your *little* novel, and it gives me the desire to heard each of JW's score

And my last score I listened is Her by Arcade Fire. Tracks with piano are very good (and the movie too !).

[Incanus 5,714]

Thank you Herosix. I am always happy if my "novels" inspire people to delve deeper into Williams' music.

Julius Caesar by Miklós Rózsa (Bruce Broughton & Sinfonia of London re-recording): The first Rózsa score I ever heard and still among my perennial favourites. The main strength of this score is not in the brass and bold Roman marches the composer is so famous for although Caesar receives a resounding one to illustrate his power. It is rather in the expressive, lyrical and highly psychological underscoring for Brutus, the assassination and its aftermath where the main appeal for me lies. The middle section of the score is full of tortured suspense and emotional anguish that is masterfully realized in themes and orchestrations. The breadth of colour and nuance in this score is delightful and the flow of the drama irresistable, the score offering wordless choral piece, brazen militaristic brass cues and even a short soprano soloist interlude before culminating in one of my favourite finales, Caesar Now Be Still where Rózsa weds Caesar's theme and Brutus' theme into a powerful denouement march.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Thank you Herosix. I am always happy if my "novels" inspire people to delve deeper into Williams' music.

.

I'm too lazy to read them.

[Incanus 5,714]

Thank you Herosix. I am always happy if my "novels" inspire people to delve deeper into Williams' music.

.

I'm too lazy to read them.

But are you still inspired to listen to Williams' music just by looking at the thread titles?

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

You are a married man, i see!