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Return of the King FILM Discusison


diskobolus

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I just dislike "LOTR 3" because it sounds like the second sequel to LOTR, whereas it is the third part...."LOTR part 3" would be a different story. :wave:

Marian - who still prefers Tolkien's own naming: "The Return of the King, being the third part of The Lord of the Rings".

According to a recent documentary, Return of the King was a title chosen by the publisher when it was decided the books would be published in three seperate three volumes due to a paper shortage and cost issues. In fact, it is said that Tolkien disliked that title and was very reluctant to allow it because it spoils a major plotline.

1- Hiring ILM for the task?

You shouldn't discredit WETA simply because it's not ILM. ILM isn't the be-all and end-all of FX houses and frankly, I think it's about time it had some real competition as their work was starting to become a little stagnant. WETA is the first worthy rival they've had in a long while and it will foster creativity and one-upmanship among artists at both houses. In my opinion, that can only be a good thing. WETA's existance may also benefit ILM by easing the job-loads per house and giving both more time to concentrate and improve upon quality of the work they're putting out.

Of the seven films up for this years Best Visual Effects Oscar, my favorite, Master and Commander, happens to feature work done by both ILM(digital)and WETA(miniatures). Unfortunately, it's unlikely to win because the work is almost too seamless.

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I just dislike "LOTR 3" because it sounds like the second sequel to LOTR, whereas it is the third part...."LOTR part 3" would be a different story. :wave:

Marian - who still prefers Tolkien's own naming: "The Return of the King, being the third part of The Lord of the Rings".

According to a recent documentary, Return of the King was a title chosen by the publisher when it was decided the books would be published in three seperate three volumes due to a paper shortage and cost issues. In fact, it is said that Tolkien disliked that title and was very reluctant to allow it because it spoils a major plotline.

Yes. Tolkien didn't want his story split up in the first place, of course. He also wanted to have the third volume called The War of the Ring, but apparently that wouldn't do.

- Marc, who needs to read The Silmarillion.

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According to a recent documentary, Return of the King was a title chosen by the publisher when it was decided the books would be published in three seperate three volumes due to a paper shortage and cost issues. In fact, it is said that Tolkien disliked that title and was very reluctant to allow it because it spoils a major plotline.

Very true. He also never really made up his mind about which two towers the title The Two Towers actually refers to. Still, I've always imagined the "being the nth part of The Lord of the Rings" bits being Tolkien's own wording.

Marian - who thinks Tolkien's original titles ("The Ring Goes South",...) aren't that great either. :wave:

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I just dislike "LOTR 3" because it sounds like the second sequel to LOTR, whereas it is the third part...."LOTR part 3" would be a different story. :P

Marian - who still prefers Tolkien's own naming: "The Return of the King, being the third part of The Lord of the Rings".

:wave: ROTK

Reminds of the story that the producers of the Madness of King George III changed the title for the American audiences to just The Madness of King George. They were afraid that the stupid American audiences would think that it's the sequel to The Madness of King George II. I don't know what's worse- that they thought the Americans wouldn't understand, or that it might be true.

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I saw it today and thought it was excellent.BUT AGAIN the scores sounded very boring,disconnected from the action and uninspired.Long notes,sane boring themes with a choir that just sits there.And why can`t Shore speed up the music when the action gets moving is beyond me.I just kept wishing John Williams would swoop in like the Nazguls and take these great scenes to new heights.

And I thought Theoden`s death scene was lifted word for word from Return of the Jedi.

And the special effects were the most convincing i ever saw.

K.M.

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The CGI was great. Lately- ILM has been very unimpressive. AoTC the Clones the most fake and sterile movie I've ever seen,

:music: Do you really believe it?!

Luke, who has not seen any better CGI person-movement in any other movie.

Look. WETA's work is good (as i stated other times) but i dont buy the praise it gets by people who likes so much the movie who cannot see ANY SFX errors in them. (Having blatantly ugly ones as the CGI Legolas)

And dont get picky at me saying like 'i like this movie or other because it its made by ILM...' or other similar remark, because i already posted two time the errors of AOC, and being me a SW it has to be worth something.

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:mrgreen: Do you really believe it?!

Luke, who has not seen any better CGI person-movement in any other movie.

Every inch of that movie looked fake. Maybe the people did interact well with the CGI (it's debatable), but the CGI looked like CGI that is not any kind of achievment. Shelob looking and feeling real was an achievement. I think WETA should do the Potter films- look at how pathetic Aragog was (as a stupid puppet) and how pitifull Dobby was next to Gollum.

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:mrgreen: Do you really believe it?!

Luke, who has not seen any better CGI person-movement in any other movie.

Every inch of that movie looked fake. Maybe the people did interact well with the CGI (it's debatable), but the CGI looked like CGI that is not any kind of achievment. Shelob looking and feeling real was an achievement. I think WETA should do the Potter films- look at how pathetic Aragog was (as a stupid puppet) and how pitifull Dobby was next to Gollum.

IT'S TRUE! The guy believes it!

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I liked Gollum. He looked very real. Except for that scene at the end in the lava. He should have stopped caring for the ring when he was being burned to death.

Some people just don't get it.... :mrgreen:

Justin - Suprised at Hector... :?

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Gollum is the most realistic CG character yet.Second would be Jar Jar.

Dunno. Maybe the runner-up is a tie between Dobby and Jar Jar. Watto's quite good too.

- Marc, who knows Gollum rules them all.

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Jar Jar looks `real`as he really looks like some guy in a costume,not that actors in suits make more realistic monsters.

Only Gollum`s hair looked animated at times,but I saw RotK projected on an IMAX screen so i could see all flaws.

K.M.

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I think that the hulk face was the best portrait of a human face yet. Of course the guy does not speak, they we cannot match it with any other CGI face

I think the best face is in this pick:

http://www.thehulk.com/index_flash.html

And another good pick is this one :

l_1717702.jpg

How can people say it as fake and below 'normal' CGI is beyond me...

Who can anyone put Dobby and Gollum in the same level and other put Dobby as pitiful CGI?

Anyway, i dont need to see an IMAX screen to see flaws. Must be a sixth sense or something... ;)

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On the Imax screen you can't help to stare at all the skin defects and blemishes of the actors,that gets annoying.Every pore is like 4 feet wide

K.M,

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Some thoughts on ROTK and LOTR as a whole... :wave:

I've been thinking about who had the greatest performance of each film and of the trilogy.

The best performances of FOTR (leading actor and supporting) would be Elijah Wood and Sean Bean. I thought about Ian Mckellen but Bean's performance throughout the film and especially in The Breaking of The Fellowship is absoulutly breathtaking.

TTT was a little bit more tricky but in the end I'd say Elijah Wood and Andy Serkis yeah you can't see Serkis but his performance is still fantastic and he simply makes the character.

ROTK we have a few changes. Viggo Mortensen shines forth throughout the whole film twofold in his speach at the Black Gate. Sean Astin. Easily the best performance of the whole trilogy. His performance on the slopes of Mount Doom is perfection.

The Best of of the trilogy? Who else? Elijah Wood and Sean Astin. :) Other performances of note not mentioned above would be Ian Mckellen, Christopher Lee, Cate Blanchett, Billy Boyd, (His character takes an amazing change in ROTK. His performance is much more dynamic.) Bernard Hill, Ian Holm, John Noble, (brilliant performance from every aspect) Brad Dourif, John Rhys-Davies, (Continually great!) Dominic Monaghan, and David Wenham. Again major improvments on all these performances in ROTK.

Some of the acting took a step down IMO perticularly, Karl Urban I found him slightly annoying in TTT and he got worse in ROTK IMO. I never really liked him. Liv Tyler, Miranda Otto, Hugo Weaving, and Orlando Bloom. Really didn't improove much, but they didn't get all that worse.

Justin -Who adores Andy Serkis's performance as Smeagol in the ROTK prolouge. :spiny:

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I think that Sean Astin has the best performance of the trilogy with Andy Serkis a close second. Sam was the best character in the book, Sean was great. I hated Elijah's performance for the most part.. . . .that stupid face he made when ever the eye was on him. I just about ripped the screen down in ROTK. I'd had enough of it. But Bernard Hill made me keep watching. His acting was superb in both the latter movies. I hope he's nominated for something.

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Astin had some brilliant moments. The Mount Doom scenes are heart-wrenching. But I also think he had some poorer moments. "N-n-n-nothing important, Mr. Gandalf.", that little scene wasn't as good, I think.

Bernard Hill rocks, although his death scene seemed to drag a little, but you can hardly blame him for that, can you?

Andy Serkis gives everything to make Gollum the most memorably character of the whole trilogy. His performance as Sméagol is also quite nice to see.

Even though I don't like the way Denethor was portrayed in the final version of RotK, I have to give some kudos to John Noble, who shows off some excellent acting, also in the Sons of the Steward scene in the TTT EE.

Ian McKellen can do these great things with just one look. Look at how he's tempted by the Ring in Bag End in FotR. Brilliant. I love that "Oh shit" look on his face when those trolls come through the doors of Minas Tirith in RotK. And check out the "Heir of Númenor" monologue in the TTT EE. I don't think there are many actors in these films that could pull something like that off as smoothly as he did.

- Marc

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Ian McKellen can do these great things with just one look. Look at how he's tempted by the Ring in Bag End in FotR. Brilliant.

Absolutely. The face between "don't" and "tempt me" is one of my favourite bits of acting. I think McKellen often does his best acting when he's not saying anything.

Marian - who thinks Ian Holm was outstanding as always in FOTR.

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WETA should do the Potter movies.

Well i saw the first Potter movie yesterday and i have to agree that it has the poorest CGI i have seen in a big budget movie. I spent the whole movie thinking OH MY GOD. The only good things are Fluffy, The face of Voldemort, the centaur and sometimes the Troll.

B U T

Has anyone seen the credits? There are up to EIGHT Special Effects companies, the first one mentiones is SONY pictures Imageworks. I fear they are the reason of the awful Quidditch match. Anyway they ILM is not in the movie poster credits so it is not that they got the credit and did nothing.

And you saying this Morlock:

and Minority Report had pretty routin SFX, except for the Spyder scene, which Spielberg didn't think ILM could do, so he gave it to PDI.

you should have checked about Harry Potter too.

Luke, who couldnt believe ILM would perform THAT bad.

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I don't think ILM was involved in the first Potter film. They did do a lot on the second, though. I think one of the things they did was the Basilisk, which looked amazing. I don't know if they did the digital Fawkes, but that's one of the things in the film that could have been better.

- Marc

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Look. WETA's work is good (as i stated other times) but i dont buy the praise it gets by people who likes so much the movie who cannot see ANY SFX errors in them. (Having blatantly ugly ones as the CGI Legolas)

You must have missed the ugly CGI Anakins in AOTC.

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Look. WETA's work is good (as i stated other times) but i dont buy the praise it gets by people who likes so much the movie who cannot see ANY SFX errors in them. (Having blatantly ugly ones as the CGI Legolas)

You must have missed the ugly CGI Anakins in AOTC.

No my friend, i did not missed it. I already posted it as one of the CGI errors in AOC.

And stefan i was not the one who mentioned The-One-You-Know here first

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BTW, anyone noticed that the film has no scene were the Orc Chieftain was killed?

Seems a bit strange since they spend a fair amount of time on this character, making him particularry vile and evil, only not to have some kinda pay off.

This is something I hope the EE will improve upon.

Also we need more scenes of the battle ofter the Army Of The Dead arrive.

I think it ends pretty abruptly after that.

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Appendices?

Not to likely Ren, i mean, how would they be able to incorporate everything that happens to the Fellowship after the actual book ends?

They need to spend more time on Aragorn and company taking charge of Minas Tirith, there are no scenes were the people of Gondor behold their King ride into his new realm.

Also more time could be spend on getting the preparations and journey of the soldiers of Gondor and Rohan to the Black Gate.

The way it is now it kinda looks like the Black Gate is around the corner.

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I think Eowyn kills the Orc Chieftain. Maybe not though, that's basically speculation. I'm hoping for a bitch slapping contest personally. :pukeface:

Justin -Who noticed a shot from the scene with Sauruman at Isengard in ROTK on a TTT documentary.

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I think Eowyn kills the Orc Chieftain. Maybe not though, that's basically speculation. I'm hoping for a bitch slapping contest personally. :pukeface:

That would be to much, she already kills the Lord of the Nazgul.

How about Eomer, he did not have much to do in ROTK?

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