segliay 0 Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 Great list and it's really annoying to see how little is missing and how it could have all been on there!I still don't get why Mr. Williams needed to remove cues and not want the inserts included, doesn't he or people who represent him get it that we want every note he composed regardless of cues being too similiar to eachother because personally I have never cared for album versions I just always want the complete recording sessions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 I still don't get why Mr. Williams needed to remove cues and not want the inserts included, doesn't he or people who represent him get it that we want every note he composed He gets it. It's just his gentle way of saying F... YOU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,794 Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 it's so true it hurts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,679 Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 Great list and it's really annoying to see how little is missing and how it could have all been on there!I still don't get why Mr. Williams needed to remove cues and not want the inserts included, doesn't he or people who represent him get it that we want every note he composed regardless of cues being too similiar to eachother because personally I have never cared for album versions I just always want the complete recording sessions.Basically, no - he doesn't Williams is very conscious about what gets released, and if an insert was a last minute change and doesn't reflect what he wanted for that scene, or if he feels a track is too repetitive, then he doesn't want it on disc. And as much as I hate people 'sucking up' to famous personalities, saying 'no' to a Williams request is probably not a good way to ensure future releases It's unfortunate - one of the most desired composers for unreleased music is one of the most undesired for C&C fans when it comes to being involved in the release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Brigden 7 Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 Like with every releas he gets involved in, Williams does it purely to upset KM. crumbs and bollemanneke 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,794 Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 Great list and it's really annoying to see how little is missing and how it could have all been on there!I still don't get why Mr. Williams needed to remove cues and not want the inserts included, doesn't he or people who represent him get it that we want every note he composed regardless of cues being too similiar to eachother because personally I have never cared for album versions I just always want the complete recording sessions.Basically, no - he doesn't Williams is very conscious about what gets released, and if an insert was a last minute change and doesn't reflect what he wanted for that scene, or if he feels a track is too repetitive, then he doesn't want it on disc. And as much as I hate people 'sucking up' to famous personalities, saying 'no' to a Williams request is probably not a good way to ensure future releases It's unfortunate - one of the most desired composers for unreleased music is one of the most undesired for C&C fans when it comes to being involved in the release.Then he must hate the original version of the AOTC finale... and other inserts and revisions that ended in his OSTs...COS' harry's wondrous world = WTF?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Woods 555 Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 Form Rank also comes in too early.Actually, "Form Ranks" is edited perfectly on the La La Land album and comes in a half a beat too late on the OST-Erik- bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,336 Posted April 11, 2012 Author Share Posted April 11, 2012 Yea, I should have clarified that Form Rank comes in early when compared to the OST. It comes in on the LLL CD exactly the way it does in the film itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissPadmé 17 Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 and "Crossed Swords" also starts early in the film? why would one want to create that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trent B 337 Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 and "Crossed Swords" also starts early in the film? why would one want to create that?All the cues for "The Ultimate War" how they are transitioned on the LLL set matches EXACTLY like in the film. I know because I did a comparison of the two. I used the RL and RR channels from the DVD since that had no sfx. So the LLL set is right as far as transitions go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,336 Posted April 11, 2012 Author Share Posted April 11, 2012 Whether or not the FILM matches Williams' intentions or not, though, is another story... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trent B 337 Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 The way how they are mixed on the LLL set and in the film sounds natural. bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,345 Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 whut?no it doesnt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oierem 152 Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 Whether or not the FILM matches Williams' intentions or not, though, is another story...Well, logically, Williams' main goal should be to match the film, right? After all, this is not supposed to be a concert suite! bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trent B 337 Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 whut?no it doesnt.Obviously you were not paying attention. I'm talking about the transitions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,345 Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 I got you.I still do not agree....the one transition in the insert area sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 LLL Ultimate War is highly flawed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,336 Posted April 12, 2012 Author Share Posted April 12, 2012 Whether or not the FILM matches Williams' intentions or not, though, is another story...Well, logically, Williams' main goal should be to match the film, right? After all, this is not supposed to be a concert suite! You're missing the point. I agree Williams INTENDED his music to sync perfectly to the cut of the film he saw.What I am saying is that the final film does not always match the composer's intentions. bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
segliay 0 Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Finally got it today, actually held off from downloading but am pretty suprised by ultimate war, mainly the bit when pan first appears seems faster and completely different to the OST as well ofcourse all the different edits. So where exactly is that ultimate war material from compared to the OST? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,345 Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 I think they sped it up, to match the film insert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiritOf77 2 Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 First of all, Jason, thanks so much for your editing guide. I've been using it a lot over the past few days to put together my own assembly. It's so generous of you take the time and trouble to do this for us.Second: WOW. I lack some of the tinier pieces of the puzzle needed to make a definitive rendering (if there is such a thing), but having fitted what I can together it's close enough - and what was already one of my favourite JW scores has stepped up several places in my list. To experience the (almost) complete tapestry unfolding at last is stunning. In particular the whole Ultimate War sequence; on the OST it wasn't one of my favourite tracks - I found it bombastic and abrupt. But with its missing sections restored (with the horrid volume dips and peaks levelled out - I've spent quite a bit of time on that), and in the context of the sweep of the whole score, it suddenly makes complete sense. It's a thing of wonder - such invention, and detail, and colour, and verve - it's joyous.Right now, I'm a very happy man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,336 Posted April 13, 2012 Author Share Posted April 13, 2012 Glad I could help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorewizard 0 Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 But with its missing sections restored (with the horrid volume dips and peaks levelled out - I've spent quite a bit of time on that)How did you level the volume dips? This was the most disappointing thing about this release. That the second half of the Ultimate War was taken from the film stems.Also, if you could level out the dips, why didn't La La Land do the same when they mastered it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trent B 337 Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 Also, if you could level out the dips, why didn't La La Land do the same when they mastered it?Many have wondered this. I think had Mike Matessino worked on it, he would have attempted to level everything out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyD 1,223 Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 Hey, Jason. What happened to the analysis chart?It is gone! Nothing but scrambled typing!What happened? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,336 Posted April 28, 2012 Author Share Posted April 28, 2012 Woah, what the!I dunno what happened!!Luckily everything is in-tact in the spreadsheet link in the second post (note the spreadsheet has multiple tabs) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 Woah, what the!I dunno what happened!!I would blame Elder Joe Harbinger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyD 1,223 Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 Hey, Jason. The spreadsheet link is in tact, but are you able to fix the actual analysis back to the way it was before it got scrambled?If so, could you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,336 Posted April 28, 2012 Author Share Posted April 28, 2012 Fixed it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyD 1,223 Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 Thank you, Jason!By the way, when are you gonna revisit the analysis you started on Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones?And War of the Worlds?Oh, and when will you revisit the analysis on The Adventures of Tintin, and the analysis on War Horse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jilal 569 Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 Maybe i'll do an analysis of AOTC, if Jason let's me do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,336 Posted April 29, 2012 Author Share Posted April 29, 2012 Huh? Why wouldn't I let you do it? bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,714 Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 Huh? Why wouldn't I let you do it?Perhaps people erroneously think that you have called dibs on the analysis of those scores by creating the respective complete cue list threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,336 Posted April 29, 2012 Author Share Posted April 29, 2012 That's crazy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyD 1,223 Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Hey, Jason.What is the additional information you are gonna add on here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,336 Posted May 1, 2012 Author Share Posted May 1, 2012 Just a full track-by-track discussion pointing of the themes used, etc. Who knows when I'll have time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyD 1,223 Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyD 1,223 Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Hey, Jason, I was just curious about something.The unreleased / unused 20 seconds from 15M2 The End of Hook: It is a triumphant fanfare of the Lost Boys theme.What exactly does it sound like?I'd really love to here it.Do you have the sheet music? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pieter Boelen 740 Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Just a full track-by-track discussion pointing of the themes used, etc. Who knows when I'll have timeThat does sound interesting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Takis 206 Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 I'm dredging this thread up again to revisit the question of the "lost day" theory, which I mentioned last year in my radio conversation with Tim Burden. The theory -- if you'll recall -- is that when the middle portion of the film was restructured and a number of scenes removed, one entire day was lost, and that this helps clear up any confusion about Hook and Tink's deal for "three days." I didn't originate this theory, but I did subscribe to it ... largely because it seemed plausible, and because the novelization seemed to support it.Today, however, I was reading through the novel, and I noticed something that had previously escaped my attention. The novel recounts several of the deleted scenes (Jack's big pirate outing, Maggie and the captive Lost Boys) AFTER the Never-Feast and BEFORE Maggie's lullaby. That would have been the lost day. The detail I missed, however, is that the novel describes Jack's day with Hook in the form of a flashback -- a reminiscence by Jack, taking place on the same evening as the Never-Feast, about events that took place earlier in the day.So a more careful reading of the novel would yield the following reconstructed timeline:DAY 1Peter Arrives in NeverlandSlicing The Hand [Deleted]Peter Meets HookPeter Meets Lost BoysHook & Smee PlotBelieve Your Eyes [Partially Deleted]DAY 2Hook's LessonPick 'Em UpJack's Pirate Outing [Deleted]The Never-FeastMaggie And The Lost Boys [Deleted]When You're AloneDAY 3The Clock MuseumPeter's Sword Training [Deleted] (Jason reports that Topps card confirms this was filmed)Ballgame SequencePeter Regains MemoriesBonfire With Lost Boys [Deleted] (not certain this was filmed)DAY 4Tink Grows UpThe Ultimate WarPeter Leaves NeverlandAgain, this is only based on the novel. I haven't read the shooting script, and I don't know what other changes might have taken place either before or after the novel was written. But IF the novel is taken as accurate to the initial cut of the film, then it would mean that an entire day was not lost after all. It would mean that several scenes were cut, and other scenes were moved around, but that the total number of days remained the same. To compare, here's how the film breaks down:DAY 1Peter Arrives in NeverlandPeter Meets HookPeter Meets Lost BoysHook & Smee PlotDAY 2Pick 'Em UpHook's LessonThe Never-FeastWhen You're Alone/Believe Your Eyes [shortened]DAY 3The Clock MuseumBallgame SequencePeter Regains MemoriesTink Grows Up (in the novel, this is a dawn scene, so it may still belong to Day 4)DAY 4The Ultimate WarPeter Leaves NeverlandIf anyone out there has read the shooting script or has any more detailed information, please feel free to post it here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,336 Posted January 7, 2013 Author Share Posted January 7, 2013 Ah. I can't remember off the top of my head - is the "Hook & Smee Plot" scene shot as taking place during the day or at night. The way I remember it is it shown as being during the day, so when the film transfers from that scene to Pick Em Up, it always seemed like it was the same day.Peter's Sword Training [Deleted] (not certain this was filmed)This was filmed. There were pictures of it on that old Hook site (from the Topps trading cards, I believe) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Takis 206 Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Ah. I can't remember off the top of my head - is the "Hook & Smee Plot" scene shot as taking place during the day or at night. The way I remember it is it shown as being during the day, so when the film transfers from that scene to Pick Em Up, it always seemed like it was the same day.I'm fairly certain it's a night scene -- Hook retiring for the evening. It's definitely bedtime in the novelization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,345 Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Its nightime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oierem 152 Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 It's bedtime. You can see that in the establishing shot before the scene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShowUStheHOOK 8 Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 wow. is hook your all-time favorite score?Yephehe do you hate this? ROTFLMAO ROTFLMAO ROTFLMAO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InTheCity 140 Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 I am currently transcribing The Mighty ProloguePS going in Bb minor about 23 cents off normal tuning.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyD 1,223 Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 Who does not get adrenaline during The Flying Sequence?The music combined with the scene...WOW!One of the best scenes in the film! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyD 1,223 Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Wow! The entire Ultimate War sequence is exactly 19 minutes in length (that includes the 20 seconds of unused music in The End of Hook)!Amazing, absolutely amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,342 Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 Thanks for another amazing guide. Jay 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,306 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Brilliant guide, @Jay. Thanks for this. Just a question regarding the Hook boots (pre-Concorde and Concorde), are there any details about the origin of these boots or their sound quality? I'm guessing the boot with the perfect sounding sessions of The Ultimate War (and the unreleased section of The End Of Hook) is the Concorde boot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now