Is John the fulfillment of Schuller's "Third Stream" philosophy?

[Dixon Hill 4,232]

Well? I'm fixated on Heartwood these days, and it seems fair to me to say that there hasn't been a more successful fusion of jazz and classical roots than this piece, and his output on the whole. Mancini and Goldsmith are close runners up though.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

You're forgetting Alex North (as most people do).

[Dixon Hill 4,232]

But was it as pervasive with North, or limited to a few works that called for it?

The three I mentioned seem to have it in their core language - haven't heard enough North to say the same for him.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

But was it as pervasive with North, or limited to a few works that called for it?

Extremely pervasive throughout his writing. SPARTACUS is one of the jazziest scores ever written. It's like what Williams says, if through some kind of alchemy you combined Shostakovich or Prokofiev with Duke Ellington or Billy Strayhorn, you'd have something close to Alex North.

[Dixon Hill 4,232]

I've gotta get more into him.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

BTW, where/who's the quote in your sig from?

[Dixon Hill 4,232]

Williams in an interview for some publication; I think The Guardian.

[Ludwig 1,120]

Well? I'm fixated on Heartwood these days, and it seems fair to me to say that there hasn't been a more successful fusion of jazz and classical roots than this piece, and his output on the whole. Mancini and Goldsmith are close runners up though.

I would agree.

Take the main theme for Schinder's List. The harmonies are almost all jazz chords, but the melodic writing, rhythmic setting, and scoring are all classical. It's one of the best examples of Johnny's trademark stylistic fusion, and it's expertly done in not showing any seams.

[Dixon Hill 4,232]

Right on. It's obviously been done before, and the names mentioned here are far from the only ones - but I think they are the cream of the crop. Seamless, as you said, rather than a collage or juxtaposition of the two styles.

I'm getting more and more convinced by the minute this afternoon that this is a real "way forward" for film music and concert music, and that there are more fusions to be explored, other musical strands that would be interesting to now wed to this existing hybrid. It's the most fresh sounding idiom to me at this point. Seems very fertile for new expression.

[Hlao-roo 389]

Williams in an interview for some publication; I think The Guardian.

One of Williams's better newspaper interviews, although it does (inevitably) conclude with the Williams interview equivalent of Horner's danger motif.

[indy4 155]

According to the wiki article on Third Stream, it needs to include improv to technically be a part of the genre.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_stream

[Hlao-roo 389]

According to the wiki article on Third Stream, it needs to include improv to technically be a part of the genre.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_stream

Hey, even Jesus healed on the Sabbath.

[Dixon Hill 4,232]

That's not a problem. He's incorporated aleatoric and "ad lib" stuff in his scores for decades.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

That's not a problem. He's incorporated aleatoric and "ad lib" stuff in his scores for decades.

Exactly. The proper term for Williams's use of aleatoricism is aleatory counterpoint - found in the works of Lutoslawski, Messiaen, Takemitsu and even Hovhaness. Howard Shore's application of it is very similar to Hovhaness's - both mostly use it for diatonic saturation.

[Dixon Hill 4,232]

I played Heartwood for a bar full of jazz cats this evening and it went over very well. One of my saxophonist friends wants me to arrange it for piano and tenor sax... if only the score were available.

Next time I've gotta bring some Goldsmith, Mancini, and North!