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Rate the Superman scores (using Williams' material)


DreamTheater

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Superman: The Movie is my favourite superhero film and just a grand fantasy / adventure film in itself, because it goes through such a heartfelt emotional arc, the prologue on Krypton, Smallville, Clark Kent's true identity, the relationship with Lois Lane, the fight for justice and good and saviour of humanity. All of this brilliantly supported by the masterful score, which everyone of us of course knows in and out. The sequel movies are very hit or miss but for the most part I look at them with nostalgia and can look past their flaws (even Superman III). IMHO Superman Returns was a great tribute to Donner's epic and the fact this film hasn't had more recognition from the fans has always felt strange to me. Because it sure has the heart and attention to character that the first one had.

Before the blue box came out I only owned the first movie's score (the Rhino) edition, so when it was finally anounced FSM would release the 4 scores in complete form I was beyond ecstatic.

So here's how I rate each score how it's presented in that box (including Ottman's because it references Williams a lot and for me is a part of that series of films).

- Superman The Movie: 5 stars (not surprises there, a towering achievement in every way, among many others during that period)

- Superman II (Thorne & Williams): 5 stars (great arrangements of existing material, the smaller orchestra has never bothered me and some much loved previously unreleased material)

- Superman III (Thorne & Williams): 4 stars (not as consistent as II but it's fun nonetheless)

- Superman IV: The Quest for Peace (Williams & Courage): 4.5 stars (simply spectacular, in the film it sounds cheesy because the film itself is so ridiculous, the FSM presentation however is excellent and puts the film to shame. Adore that Nuclear Man theme.)

Superman Returns (Ottman): 4 stars (the original album which is enough for me, Ottman did good here, adding choir to Supes' theme can divide people but I for one love it)

PS Feels good to finally post something here... :D

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I just can't get into Superman Returns at all, film or score.

Love the blue box. The scores to 2,3,and 4 were a very pleasant surprise.

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I do love the part of SR where Supes brings the jet down into the stadium, and also when he tells his son becomes the father line to his sleeping son. The rest is basically the world's most boring love letter to old movies of the modern era.

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Never heard Supes II or III. Love "The Movie", and think Courage did a fine job with IV. I've seen the Superman Returns score get a lot of flack , but I think it's Ottman's best score (not a fan of his anyway, so I was suprised).

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- Superman II (great arrangements of existing material, the smaller orchestra has never bothered me and some much loved previously unreleased material)

(Y)

My ratings:

- Superman: The Movie - 5 stars

- Superman II & III - 4.5 stars

- Superman IV - 2.5 stars (I was never able to really enjoy it, it has a "marching band" vibe that puts me off whenever I give this score a chance).

- Superman Returns - 2.5 stars (technically correct but lacks the soul of the originals)

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Superman The Movie is a great score, one of JW's best.

After that Superman IV is the only one I have any time for. Very well written by a composer who understand the John Williams style.

Ricard just made my laugh by complaining about a marching band style for VI, while praising II and III.

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I think 2 and 3 are very fun scores that don't try to be anything they aren't. You can't compare them to 1 and 4 because they were designed from the beginning to re-use and re-configure the score to 1. I think 2 is kinda like a fun summary of 1, focusing often on deleted or minor cues rather than re-doing all the big classic ones, and 3 is just a fun comedy score that puts a smile on your face right from the main title.

I'm not really a fan of any of the films, but the first 1/3 to 1/2 of 1 is really good.

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I only really like the first half of SUPERMAN - THE MOVIE, never cared for the rest, be it Williams, Thorne, Courage or Ottman. Moroder, on the other hand...

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Ricard just made my laugh by complaining about a marching band style for VI, while praising II and III.

The II & III orchestras may be small but the performances are great. Never had the same feeling with IV.

I've seen them all (Christopher Reeve ones) in cinemas. Now who can say that, huh?

You, me, Joey and maybe a couple more members.

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True, the first half of Supes: The Movie is the best ... but at the time I like the Metropolis part too.

I've seen them all (Christopher Reeve ones) in cinemas. Now who can say that, huh?

You, me, Joey and maybe a couple more members.

Joey does no longer count. Who else?

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Most people on this board are under 40, heck most that are still around are probably under 30 to be honest

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Here are my thoughts:

1. Superman The Movie - No comment necessary. ; )

2. Superman IV - Extra points for the new JW themes: Lacy's theme plays like a sultry love-theme from some old Bond-movie, Jeremy's theme like a cue left off Heidi, while Nuclear Man's theme is an over-the-top villain pastiche; more sci-fi than comic book. Another highlight is Courage's UN-version of the march.

3. Superman Returns - One could love it for the "How could you leave us"-cue alone, and how it incorporates the love theme beautifully. Furthermore, Ottoman creates new material that builds upon the original themes that fits perfectly into the musical tapestry of the first movie... Actually, more so than any other composer who scored a Superman sequel.

4. Superman III - Of the Lester-sequels, this one had some great "Super"-moments, and although the new main theme is very un-Superman-like, it's a great theme none the less.

5. Superman II - The OST for II might as well have served as a bonus disc of sorts to the OST for Superman The Movie. It's fun to hear how Thorne plays around with the source material, but it doesn't propell me out of Earth's gravity.

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Aren't II and III just highlight reels of The Movie?

You could say that about II, which uses Williams material the most, but it's interesting how Thorne used them for entirely different situations / scenes than what Williams wrote them for. In that way I find Sup II is the most accomplished of the sequel scores.

III is more Thorne than Williams, the comedy aspect comes more to the foreground, the movie is a comedy after all, not a true Superman film.

Most people on this board are under 40, heck most that are still around are probably under 30 to be honest

I'm awaiting the number 4 train... one more year. :o

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In that way I find Sup II is the most accomplished of the sequel scores.

Because of the fact that the score is almost completely recycled from JW's first, but he moves the themes around a bit?

I would say that makes it the LEAST accomplished.

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True, the first half of Supes: The Movie is the best ... but at the time I like the Metropolis part too.

I've seen them all (Christopher Reeve ones) in cinemas. Now who can say that, huh?

You, me, Joey and maybe a couple more members.

Joey does no longer count. Who else?

I'm on that list, too.

I always had a fond place in my heart for at least Sup II, probably because I did see it in theaters and remember growing up with it. I always recognized that Sup III didn't quite reach the same level (the opening credits sequence, which takes the series from galactic, epic openings to slapstick, didn't help with that impression much).

I only recently really learned to appreciate Sup IV. The movie left such a horrible taste in my mouth that I avoided the score for years. But I heard good things about what Courage did with the material, and I have to say I was ultimately impressed. It takes a lot to dignify excrement with good music, and you have to give a nod to Courage for that if nothing else.

Sup Returns just left me wondering why he did. The casting was terrible, the story was too dull to care about, and the score was middling at best. I can agree with some of what rough cut said above:

One could love it for the "How could you leave us"-cue alone, and how it incorporates the love theme beautifully.

Not that I could "love" it for that reason alone, but I do like that piece of music and its variation on the original Love Theme.

None of them, however, will ever compare to the original as far as I'm concerned. Superman was as much a hallmark experience for me as the Star Wars movies were when I was a kid, and it's solidly enshrined as both the movie and the score that fly light-rings around the rest of the cinematic spin-offs associated with the character.

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In that way I find Sup II is the most accomplished of the sequel scores.

Because of the fact that the score is almost completely recycled from JW's first, but he moves the themes around a bit?

I would say that makes it the LEAST accomplished.

Agreed!

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In that way I find Sup II is the most accomplished of the sequel scores.

Because of the fact that the score is almost completely recycled from JW's first, but he moves the themes around a bit?

I would say that makes it the LEAST accomplished.

I get why you would say that but to me it just so feels like an essential Superman score, because the themes are all reused in grand fashion and appropriately too, while also doing some interesting arrangements. Like how Mother's advice was originally for Jor-El and wife saying goodbye to baby Kal-El in The Movie. I love both arrangements equally.

Maybe accomplished isn't the right word, but consistent is. Those 79 minutes I enjoy immensely every time, but that's just me.

Am I the only one here who loves Superman Returns? It doesn't eclipse the original but it's still fantastic for a non-Williams scored sequel. The film is underrated too.

(Y)

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I only really like the first half of SUPERMAN - THE MOVIE, never cared for the rest, be it Williams, Thorne, Courage or Ottman. Moroder, on the other hand...

You don't like Sandy Courage's score? I find it hard to believe.

Karol

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There's a certain Goldsmith-like vibe to it. That, coupled with John Williams themes (I think Courage something around 14 ideas in there, two of them his.) makes it great.

Karol

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I listened to it. Perfectly well-made but just no music i would want to listen to though given the genres popularity i hardly fancy any superhero score.

Parts of SUPERMAN, SUPERGIRL, HULK, BATMAN RETURNS, SPIDERMAN (Horner, Zimmer) and some odds and ends (i'd even include Hansis MOS sketches, unbelievable as it may sound) but that's about it.

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1-4-2-3-SR

Most sensible post you have made all week ;)
If the last two switch places and you have my list.

But then again SR might come third.

Karol

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