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What's the worse JW expanded release (RE-VOTE 2 OPTIONS)


King Mark

worst expanded JW release  

44 members have voted

  1. 1. Worst JW expanded release

    • The Phantom Menace UE(no comments needed)
    • The Indy Box Set (missing music, edits, pitch issues,slapped together feel)
    • Return of the Jedi SE (poor mix and sound quality, rushed release)
    • E.T. (wrong takes and incomplete..twice)
      0
    • Hook (ultimate war film stem volume dips, no Never-Feast insert...)
    • Jaws (poor sound quality and no album versions)
    • Sony Star Wars OT re-issues (lazy missed opportunity, no remastering but lenticular covers)
    • Jurassic Park (non-chronological combined cues, still missing music, no c.d.)
    • other


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There are disturbingly many of JWs classic scores among these less than perfect releases...

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There are also disturbingly many anal-retentive fans, you know, developing major depressions because of missing bumper cues and tiny alternate fragments.. ;)

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There are also disturbingly many anal-retentive fans, you know, developing major depressions because of missing bumper cues and tiny alternate fragments.. ;)

Bottle caps matter! If you are going to do a complete release, aim for one that OCD fans will appreciate.

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Added JP..

Iconic score and that we unexpectedly got most of the missing music was a nice surprise, but with just a little more effort...

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There are also disturbingly many anal-retentive fans, you know, developing major depressions because of missing bumper cues and tiny alternate fragments.. ;)

Bottle caps matter! If you are going to do a complete release, aim for one that OCD fans will appreciate.

We still have Thor to sour your life.

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There are also disturbingly many anal-retentive fans, you know, developing major depressions because of missing bumper cues and tiny alternate fragments.. ;)

Bottle caps matter! If you are going to do a complete release, aim for one that OCD fans will appreciate.

We still have Thor to sour your life.

Yes Thor, our nemesis...

Nah not really. Some people just have very different tastes and views of what their perfect soundtrack release should be. I am sure we will lock horns on the issue in the future but I really don't take it as an affront to everything I stand for. Unless he someday gets to call the shots on these releases. ;)

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Which would ruin the business model wthin a month or two. I usually don't care if Intrada releases the zilcht version of PREDATOR - only if there's a perk added that makes me buy it for the zilcht time which has become a nuisance. You don't get much money for the older stuff on eBay and sit on a useless copy, or worse, there is one special cut that's only on the old release which makes you really grateful for iTunes and Co.

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He, he....I soooo want to say 'all of them', but that wouldn't be entirely true. For example, I really like the Arista 4CD set of STAR WARS, which is an expansion of the old LP programs.

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Well, it's actually closer to 20 minutes than 30 (don't know why I said 30, to be honest). And it's basically spread throughout the score as short 30 seconds (or so) bits microedited here and there.

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CD 2 of TPM UE is filed under "mess, a" in encyclopedia definitions, or it should. This score must be built-up from the scratch to illustrate the composer's concept and just shit on any editorial decisions (in the thousands) made during mixing.

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There are also disturbingly many anal-retentive fans, you know, developing major depressions because of missing bumper cues and tiny alternate fragments.. ;)

Well yes, except that there really are some serious problems with these. TPM needs no comment (I voted for it as well). Indy bothers me at least for The Desert Chase, which (Williams' decision or not) is a mess in its shortened album form. E.T. is missing the album tracks and the latest release sounds like shit. Hook's missing reels are unfortunate. And Jaws, like E.T., really needs an updated release of the original album tracks together with the rest.

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I already singled out TPM as the real culprit, DESERT CHASE, pffft...don't care either way, the album arrangements omissions for E. T. are an interesting issue probably caused by the need to have a 1-CD release which certainly will be changed by Intrada or LLL.

But i listen to so much stuff only on Spotify these days i just can't get aroused much by having three sea chases from JAWS etc. just because the slightly differ in content or sound quality.

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I voted for the Indy boxed set. I'm not as familiar with all the mistakes in TPM, but if so maybe I'd vote for that one.

Honestly I just recently acquired the Indy set. I bought the music on Amazon (digital download) the day it was released but always wanted it on the shelf so I broke down and double dipped. Although I'd heard the music already, getting the physical set was the first time I'd had a chance to read the liner notes.

Or should I say the liner NOTE. Since it was only one poorly-written bit of drivel copied into five CD packages.

The drivel itself was infuriating. A good bit of "let me pat myself on the back for being this awesome" nonsense by LB, which I hated. And worse was some crap that (once you ran it through the B.S. filter) essentially just said "we're not completists, and we just really don't think you should be, either." Frankly I'm not necessarily a completist either, but the attitude was more irritating to me than any missing music.

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The Phantom Menace UE is the only one I'm bothered by at all, to be honest. Lot of weird edits and looped statements which may have worked fine in the movie but which sound pretty bad on the release. All the others, I'm happy to own and if they were the last-ever releases of those scores, I would be happy enough.

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But i listen to so much stuff only on Spotify these days i just can't get aroused much by having three sea chases from JAWS etc. just because the slightly differ in content or sound quality.

Several of the major set pieces in Jaws differ vastly between the score and the album cues. It may just be overfamiliarity with the old album, but it really seems to me as if Williams had envisioned those cues in their full album/concert form and then severely edited them down (on paper) for the film recording. The result isn't as artificial sounding as the TPM UE, obviously (because there are no edits made to the recording), but content wise the edits are on a similar level.

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Many of these releases, while flawed, still gave us some missing music that we could at least cobble together into a better presentation. I picked Return of the Jedi because the sound is bad enough, even I can tell it's bad. It's like paying for a bootleg... not to mention paying actual money to own Jedi Rocks (and not getting Yub Nub in the bargain).

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Several of the major set pieces in Jaws differ vastly between the score and the album cues. It may just be overfamiliarity with the old album, but it really seems to me as if Williams had envisioned those cues in their full album/concert form and then severely edited them down (on paper) for the film recording. The result isn't as artificial sounding as the TPM UE, obviously (because there are no edits made to the recording), but content wise the edits are on a similar level.

I only filled up some parts with the Collector's Edition when the cue wasn't on the old MCA album. The sound sucks on both releases so why bother?

Many of these releases, while flawed, still gave us some missing music that we could at least cobble together into a better presentation. I picked Return of the Jedi because the sound is bad enough, even I can tell it's bad. It's like paying for a bootleg... not to mention paying actual money to own Jedi Rocks (and not getting Yub Nub in the bargain).

I never updated the old Anthology set because i never listen to more than that anyway and the sound isn't bad as far as i can tell.

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The Phantom Menace UE is the only one I'm bothered by at all, to be honest. Lot of weird edits and looped statements which may have worked fine in the movie but which sound pretty bad on the release.

Many of those edits were very audible in the movie too, ruining the little excitement that was left in some of the scenes in the last third of the film.

So releasing that butchering as a 2CD set resulted in an extremely awkward and annoying experience, the exact opposite to a proper expanded release. As terrible as I think the Indy box set is, the TPM UE gets my vote not only as "worst JW expanded release", but as "worst expanded release", period.

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No they arent! Only SW follows the original LP program

:conf:

What do you mean?

That‘s simple. The Anthology doesn’t follow the LP program. And I go out on a limb and tell you that the Anthology is worse in terms of listing experience, aside Star Wars. But that is because it follows nearly the program of the LP. In fact, putting Leia’s Theme in the end before Battle of Yavin - sequenced on the Anthology - is a no no. The highlight of that nonsense is The Empire Strikes Back. The cues don’t have sense and musical logic in it. Compare Battle of Hoth, which are spread over three cues on the Anthology. No continuity. Whereas the original LP combines cues and put the tracks in a sequence as it is a musical journey. And the Anthology has missing music from the LP, i.e. last part of Mynock Cave. The 4th disc is a joke, sorry. Some of the tracks are stereo reversed, etc. I can go on, but I think that is enough critics.

For the Star Wars Trilogy, the best presentations are the complete presentation of the soundtracks. The musical narrative and structure is perfect, it flows like a grand symphony (or an opera without words). I can listen to it without the pictures from the movie in my mind. And of course, John Williams approved the Special Edition CD’s, but he didn’t approve the Anthology as far as I know.

Even Mathessino said in FSM Issue the sequence for the Special Editions he chose was described as:

As producers of the albums, our job was to preserve the integrity of Mr. Williams’s work, not to desecrate it, so our policy is not to violent basic musical principles just to slavishly adhere to the whims of sound editors who are simply trying to “make it work” to the satisfaction of often non-musical producers and directors.

Take note the SE CD’s are not completely chronological ordered. Some cues were put on another track and merged together, others are divided to receive a better listing experience. IMHO, the Anthology is obsolete. Fans only use it because of the superior sound mix, but I do not completely share this opinion.

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Well, which one really sticks out like a sore thumb in this poll? Which was actually a label release that typically gets everything criticized in these choices right, for the most part? That's right, Hook. The Indy box set was something of a disaster, but at least it contained most of the best parts from the entire trilogy, no small feat for a non-label Laurent Bouzereau production. Despite numerous issues, the Special Edition versions of the Star Wars Trilogy were amazing releases for their time and you know it. E.T.'s reissues were fine except the refuckered treble and bass-tastic 20th Anniversary version, which was only good for filling in missing gaps with film versions, so I guess we can't be too critical of it. While most of the scores listed here could use a reissue, we have most of the music in decent sound quality except Return of the Jedi.

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The Phantom Menace UE is the only one I'm bothered by at all, to be honest. Lot of weird edits and looped statements which may have worked fine in the movie but which sound pretty bad on the release. All the others, I'm happy to own and if they were the last-ever releases of those scores, I would be happy enough.

This.

Yes there's still quite a bit of missing music from The Phantom Menace. The whole "Ultimate Edition" while it was nice to have the previously unreleased music in awesome remastered sound the presentation practically sucked.

Plus it had the misleading line: "Every note recorded". Ya right...

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I voted for ROTJ:SE simply for it's poor sound quality and missing music. At least with TPM:UE, the sound quality is excellent and we got some amazing cues that may not have been released otherwise such as "Anakin is Free" and "The Tide Turns." It's still a mess of an album, but at least it gave fan editors more material to work with in creating a proper complete score.

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The Phantom Menace UE is the only one I'm bothered by at all, to be honest. Lot of weird edits and looped statements which may have worked fine in the movie but which sound pretty bad on the release. All the others, I'm happy to own and if they were the last-ever releases of those scores, I would be happy enough.

This.

Yes there's still quite a bit of missing music from The Phantom Menace. The whole "Ultimate Edition" while it was nice to have the previously unreleased music in awesome remastered sound the presentation practically sucked.

Plus it had the misleading line: "Every note recorded". Ya right...

Yeah, it didn't even include every note actually used in the film.

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From what I know, the Flag Parade is not the edit used in the film, and the Victory Parade at the end is the album version.

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There are other bits an pieces on the UE that are different in the film. I put together a real isolated score many years ago and many tracks didn't match up to the film versions. Some parts were extended in the films, slowed down, etc. The edits in the UE are actually a little bit cleaner than the edits heard in the film. Fortunately, sound effects masked some of the more obvious and odd edits. "The Tide Turns" is actually shortened and altered slightly in the film, but seems to be entirely intact on the UE.

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The Phantom Menace UE is the only one I'm bothered by at all, to be honest. Lot of weird edits and looped statements which may have worked fine in the movie but which sound pretty bad on the release.

Many of those edits were very audible in the movie too, ruining the little excitement that was left in some of the scenes in the last third of the film.

So releasing that butchering as a 2CD set resulted in an extremely awkward and annoying experience, the exact opposite to a proper expanded release. As terrible as I think the Indy box set is, the TPM UE gets my vote not only as "worst JW expanded release", but as "worst expanded release", period.

I remember in 1999 (I was 13 at the time), I didn't notice any of those edits. In fact, at the time I thought one of the coolest musical moments in the movie was the part when the Queen and her guards pulled out their grappling guns and Duel of the Fates started playing. I wasn't aware that it wasn't originally intended that way, nor was I aware of the nasty-sounding edit that took place in there. It's also kind of a dumb part of the movie for the music to kick into high gear, since it's just a bunch of doofuses grappeling up a floor and then running into an empty hallway - but seemed cool to me at the time, nonetheless.

Now of course, if and when I watch the movie, I am quite aware of those musical edits - likely due in a great part to the UE release. The UE isn't a total loss for me, because it had my favorite cue, the music from Anakin exploding the battleship at the end - Force theme and Duel of the Fates intermingling - without any gross edits and as rousing as it should be!

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Oh, I forgot to tell everybody what is my least favorite expansion. I don't know, but The Phantom Menace 3D should be the worst. Expanded edition with one exta track!

Well, does it count? It's maybe declaired as a reissue...

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Other, namely..."The Towering Inferno".

It has trashy sound, omits the cue where Steve McQueen absails down a lift-shaft, and does not have a number of source-cues ("The More I See You", etc). Worst of all, "Waking Up" is "damaged".

Criminal!

But it does have "Let There Be Light", so I can forgive it...

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The Indy box.

I voted for the Indy boxed set. I'm not as familiar with all the mistakes in TPM, but if so maybe I'd vote for that one.

Honestly I just recently acquired the Indy set. I bought the music on Amazon (digital download) the day it was released but always wanted it on the shelf so I broke down and double dipped. Although I'd heard the music already, getting the physical set was the first time I'd had a chance to read the liner notes.

Or should I say the liner NOTE. Since it was only one poorly-written bit of drivel copied into five CD packages.

The drivel itself was infuriating. A good bit of "let me pat myself on the back for being this awesome" nonsense by LB, which I hated. And worse was some crap that (once you ran it through the B.S. filter) essentially just said "we're not completists, and we just really don't think you should be, either." Frankly I'm not necessarily a completist either, but the attitude was more irritating to me than any missing music.

I got the impression that LB's drivel was his attempt to amicably describe JW's process of removing cues.

The number one error was Lucasfilm giving it to Concord, rather than letting LLL/Intrada do it properly.

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I don't understand what is so messy about the Indy Box. Well, it does have pitch issues and EQing on Raiders, incomplete Desert Chase, missing opportunities to merge some cues. But what about Temple of Doom and Last Crusade? TOD has also pitch issues I heard around this board but come on, it barely audible. With Raiders, the pitch issues is more audible.

As for TPM UE I can understand, why this is so hated. The battle at the end so unenjoyable. Loops, editing, mergings is also bad. But is this really the worst? I don't know. Keep in mind that gives you a lot of unreleased stuff.... Honestly I only listen to the OST, although I would like to have more.

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What I object to most about the Indy Box, is the totally unnecessary patronizing, and sycophantic "interviews" conducted by LB; surely, an American Ian Christie.

There could have 20 minutes of extra music. It makes my blood boil.

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TOD has also pitch issues I heard around this board but come on, it barely audible. With Raiders, the pitch issues is more audible.

Indy and the Villagers is most audible IMHO.

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To me the problem with ToD and Last Crusade is the still unreleased music, period. No proper ToD End Credits, that almost ruins the set by itself

I'm surprised to see the votes on the poll all over the place. I should have excluded the TPM UE to see where those votes would go

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I voted Jedi, its so fucking awful sounding. I hate seeing Hook on here, it's a really, really good release, imo. Nor perfection, but seriously good.

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I added multiple choice to pick another to see what's the second worse one

(delete your vote and re-vote, if you want to, ,even if your first pick wasn't TPMUE)

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What I object to most about the Indy Box, is the totally unecessary, patronizing, and sicophantic "interviews" conducted by LB; surely, an American Ian Christie.

There could have 20 minutes of extra music. It makes my blood boil.

This!

If they'd filled up the 5th CD with extras and couldn't squeeze any more tracks into the set,then I'd completely understand. I'd happily understand that pressing a 6th CD just to have 18 alternate takes of mostly forgotten cues wouldn't be worth the cost. But they left out desired music and included an interview that was basically a rehash ofsomething off the DVD set that any fan already had.

Maybe LB *WAS* trying to cover for JW. I can dig it. But the way it was written was condescending, and that's inexcusable.

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