Thor 7,490 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 I know I just said I don't like speculation threads, so I guess I'm breaking my own rules here, but this is really more about the mechanisms at play that would allow a recording in the first place. I'm really clueless about such things, but maybe you know.Btw, this is the first time I've made a poll topic here, so let's hope this works.We all know he was dissatisfied with his symphony, which is why it only has been performed a couple of times and basically shelved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TownerFan 4,983 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 I don't think we'll ever see it, at least until he's alive.Williams apparently is not happy with this work, hence why he withdrew from his official repertoire. It was performed oinly twice, the first time in 1969 in Houston, TX with André Previn conducting the Houston Symphony and then in 1972 in London, with Previn conducting the LSO. Williams planned to perform a revised version back in 1987-1988 for a concert with the Houston Symphony, but the work was subsituted at the last minute with some film music (paging Miguel for more accurate information! )I guess Williams never had the proper time to revise the work as he planned, so in the end he decided to abandon it. Well, who knows, maybe one day he'll find a renewed interest into it and will put it back on track. But considering Williams doesn't like to revisit too much his own older works, it's unlikely.I do hope he'll write a new symphony sooner or later! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brónach 1,302 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 I think I'll live to hear it, maybe some decades from now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonesy 55 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 In the near future, we'll hear Williams' symphony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Not during his lifetime, since he withdrew it, and we have no news that he ever attempted to improve it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,336 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 If either of those 2 performances were recorded, MAYBE we'll see one of them released after JW has passed on.But I can't see any other orchestra ever tracking down the sheet music, then performing and recording it. Just won't happen IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brónach 1,302 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 If either of those 2 performances were recorded, MAYBE we'll see one of them released after JW has passed on.But I can't see any other orchestra ever tracking down the sheet music, then performing and recording it. Just won't happen IMHO.I would see it happening like this. IF one of those were recorded and IF one of them is released and IF the symphony is good, we might see some orchestra tracking down the sheet music and performing it. And maybe later, IF this happens, some orchestra could record it if someone was interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tannhauser 101 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Has anyone here ever heard it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TownerFan 4,983 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 I don't know if there are people here who were ever able to listen to it.Anyhow, here's JW's own program notes and a small review of the piece that appeared back then on the press:http://www.johnwilli...s/symphony.htmlThere's also a very funny anecdote told by Williams in Bernard Herrmann's biography A Heart at Fire's Center: Herrmann attended the London performance hiddening among the audience. Williams was in the lobby with Previn before the concert and they both saw Benny slipping away without making himself recognized. The day after the performance, he called Williams and told him: "There was a nice tune in the second movement. Why ya covered with all that stuff, with all that excessive orchestration?". Pure Benny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,490 Posted December 6, 2011 Author Share Posted December 6, 2011 Yeah, I've heard that anecdote. Not sure if it's true or not, but if it is, it surely didn't boost Williams' self-esteem on the piece either!By the way, I'm reminded of the opera project that ALMOST came to be a few years ago, when Placido Domingo and the LA Opera ALMOST managed to commision him for an opera. That would have been something! It's too bad that one of our time's greatest composers never gets to have a symphony and opera recorded and released, even though he has a gazillion concertos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TownerFan 4,983 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Yep, too bad it never came to be. From what is known a libretto was commissioned to American music critic/novelist Michael Walsh, but Williams in the end decided to leave the project because he felt he wasn't good enough at vocal writing. The man is humble, really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,490 Posted December 6, 2011 Author Share Posted December 6, 2011 Yep, too bad it never came to be. From what is known a libretto was commissioned to American music critic/novelist Michael Walsh, but Williams in the end decided to leave the project because he felt he wasn't good enough at vocal writing. The man is humble, really.Well, he HAS a point. THOMAS AND THE KING was horrible. But he's written some fine, individual songs over the course of his career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indy4 155 Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 I quite like Thomas and the King. There are some bad lyrics, but Williams didn't write those. I would've loved to hear his opera. And I would definitely like to hear his symphony, whether he composes a new one or records the old one. I find concertos to be, in general, some of the least accessible type of classical music, and even while JW's concertos are good (though I've only heard a few), I'm sure his symphony would be pretty powerful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delorean90 42 Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Flawed though it may be, I am fascinated by those comments on what was in the symphony. I'd love to hear it.And, yeah, writing for voice is no walk in the park. I took the better part of this semester working on my first art song, and I'm still not fully satisfied with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indy4 155 Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 From the liner notes to the Trumpet Concerto/Essay for Strings album:In addition to his film music, Mr. Williams has written many concert pieces, including two symphonies...Is this a misprint? I have only ever heard of the one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Andrade 1,263 Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 From the liner notes to the Trumpet Concerto/Essay for Strings album:In addition to his film music, Mr. Williams has written many concert pieces, including two symphonies...Is this a misprint? I have only ever heard of the one.It's a common error, I'm afraid. Most likely a confusion due to the Sinfonietta for wind ensemble. Anyway, I once read that he was writing a second symphony, sometime in the 70's, but I do find that rumor lacking any logic, since he never revised the first one -- or if he did, he wasn't satisfied with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indy4 155 Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Ah okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,490 Posted January 7, 2012 Author Share Posted January 7, 2012 Yeah, I see that all the time. Strange how people don't know the difference between a symphony and a sinfonietta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indy4 155 Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 lol, the mistake is even on this board's biography (taken from Sony):Mr. Williams has written many concert pieces, including two symphonies...http://www.jwfan.com/?page_id=132 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,331 Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 How many concertos by Williams haven't been released on CD yet? These are not the best of times for contemporary music composers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TownerFan 4,983 Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 So far, we've yet to see official releases/recordings of:Clarinet ConcertoViola ConcertoOboe ConcertoAlso, the song cycle Seven for Luck is officially unreleased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,336 Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 I still have to post the video I took of the oboe concerto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Brausam 214 Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 We'll get a recording of it, most likely via Naxos, Chandos, or Koch if they're still doing recordings. I'd even say within the decade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrJosh 892 Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I'm sure we will see it released before we see complete prequel score set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandor 797 Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 So far, we've yet to see official releases/recordings of:Clarinet ConcertoViola ConcertoOboe ConcertoAlso, the song cycle Seven for Luck is officially unreleased.Was the Horn Concerto ever officially released..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Andrade 1,263 Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 The Horn Concerto was digitally released by Naxos. They also released the revised version of the Violin Concerto and will record this February the Cello Concerto. I believe the idea is to later have them released on CD together.All the performances are by the Detroit Symphony under Williams champion Leonard Slatkin, using as soloists the principals of the orchestra.On a side note, it might be interesting to point out that he Horn Concerto has become one of the most performed concert pieces by Williams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandor 797 Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 The Horn Concerto was digitally released by Naxos. They also released the revised version of the Violin Concerto and will record this February the Cello Concerto. I believe the idea is to later have them released on CD together.All the performances are by the Detroit Symphony under Williams champion Leonard Slatkin, using as soloists the principals of the orchestra.On a side note, it might be interesting to point out that he Horn Concerto has become one of the most performed concert pieces by Williams.Thanks for the info! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muad'Dib 1,801 Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 I have read a lot regarding one of Johnny's first concert pieces, mainly that it consited in three movements (one of them very jazzy) and that it also received a lot of criticism to which Williams agreed and decided not to perform the piece ever again.So I naturally wonder... Has anyone around here had a chance to hear it in any form? It would be quite interesting to hear, even if it's not his best work for the concert hall.Anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Adams 494 Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 I've read the score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 7,998 Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 What it's like?Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Adams 494 Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Very much like the wind sinfonietta in terms of counterpoint and harmonic language. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muad'Dib 1,801 Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Is it good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 7,998 Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Never heard that one, I'm afraid. Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Adams 494 Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Is it good?It's fascinating, but I can see why he eventually chose to abandon it. You can really see Williams working out certain technicalities -- mostly formal -- as he goes. It's not a train-wreck, it's just a bit of a workshop on paper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 7,998 Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 I think I understand what you're trying to say. It took Williams several concert works to establish his voice. His violin concerto (a lovely piece of work), for example, but doesn't have as much of a personality as his later concertos. You can hear the difference between that work and his second violin concerto on the Treesong CD. Almost as if he was too shy of his style at the time. Or maybe because he was still looking for one.Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indy4 155 Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 In some interview Williams described all his concert works as exercises for himself rather than serious pieces of music. I have no idea how old that interview was, so he may have changed his mind since then. Interestingly, in a 1982 interview he said that the best piece of music he had written up to that point was the 1976 Violin Concerto. So it seems he may be a little conflicted about his views on his concert works.Either way, a recording of his 1st symphony is definitely a holy grail of mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,490 Posted February 21, 2012 Author Share Posted February 21, 2012 I've read the score.Really?That's impressive. I had no idea it was available for viewing anywhere. I always assumed it was locked away in one of Williams' cabinets or something.If the score sheets are out there, then maybe we'll see a recording of it after all.....some day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muad'Dib 1,801 Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Really?That's impressive. I had no idea it was available for viewing anywhere. I always assumed it was locked away in one of Williams' cabinets or something.If the score sheets are out there, then maybe we'll see a recording of it after all.....some day.Or a mock-up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Adams 494 Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Really?That's impressive. I had no idea it was available for viewing anywhere. I always assumed it was locked away in one of Williams' cabinets or something.If the score sheets are out there, then maybe we'll see a recording of it after all.....some day.Or a mock-up...To be clear, there's nothing floating around on the internet. I was shown Williams' original manuscripts by an official source. Sorry, hope I'm not getting anyone's hopes up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Really?That's impressive. I had no idea it was available for viewing anywhere. I always assumed it was locked away in one of Williams' cabinets or something.If the score sheets are out there, then maybe we'll see a recording of it after all.....some day.Or a mock-up...To be clear, there's nothing floating around on the internet. I was shown Williams' original manuscripts by an official source.Sorry, hope I'm not getting anyone's hopes up.Huh. Well it still means that its not really locked away in Williams office forever. We might just get to hear it one day...Does anyone think Williams will ever go back and work on it to his perfection? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indy4 155 Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 He did at Bernard Herrmann's suggestion, but I guess he wasn't pleased enough with the final result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filmmusic 1,825 Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 I've read the score.Really?That's impressive. I had no idea it was available for viewing anywhere. I always assumed it was locked away in one of Williams' cabinets or something.If the score sheets are out there, then maybe we'll see a recording of it after all.....some day.I'm sure I had written it somehwere here, but i can't find it.The Symphony is availbale here for rental:https://www.eamdc.com/composers/john-williams/works/symphony-no-1-7/I tried to get it, but it was way too expensive for someone in Europe! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightscape94 965 Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Didn't realize it was that short. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,714 Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 As the old proverb goes, it is not about the minutes, it is how you use them. Joni Wiljami 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 No! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbellamy 6,275 Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 24 minutes is a pretty average running time for a symphony, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,714 Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Unless you are Shostakovich, Mahler or Bruckner then yes it might be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamsStarShip2282 308 Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 i really think that one day, while hes still alive, it will be a suprise release Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 4,650 Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 I am surprised the score is available. I would have thought some symphony would have performed it in the last 20 years. To those who have read the score, does it seem like an engaging piece? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joni Wiljami 1,206 Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Now I will start to compel our new open-minded chief conductor (26yrs), who will start next fall, to perform this piece! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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