A Jedi's Fury

[UWW 0]

Hi everyone, found this website recently - needless to say, very awesome.

I am curious about a clip of music known as "A Jedi's Fury", you are probably familiar:

There are lots of Star Wars scores available out there, from concert suite arrangement scores, to a plethora of midi files online, to lots of people simply writing sheets based on their listening by ear. However, I've never been able to find a score or any type of sheet music for this particular clip; I've searched here, as well as all over the interwebs, but with no luck.

I imagine somebody here will have some knowledge as to how one could acquire sheet music, or even the chord progressions, for this clip of music (I don't have music friends skilled enough to do it by ear). Any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks!

[Datameister 2,041]

Sadly, I don't have sheet music for this cue. However, working by ear, this is how I would describe the chord progressions, at least:

Bm-Em-Bm-Fm-Bm-Em

GM-Am-Bm

Em-Bm-Em-GM-Bm-Em-CM-DM

EDIT: Welcome to JWFan, by the way.

[Ludwig 1,120]

Sadly, I don't have sheet music for this cue. However, working by ear, this is how I would describe the chord progressions, at least:

Bm-Em-Bm-Fm-Bm-Em

GM-Am-Bm

Em-Bm-Em-GM-Bm-CM-DM

EDIT: Welcome to JWFan, by the way.

A good start. There's also a Bbm chord to start the cue and an Em before the CM. But it's also more nuanced in that there is typical Williams-esque parallelism after the dissonance over the Fm chord, going C/E - Bm/D - Am/C - Bm/D. This shows a bit of the bass line, which is also important. And that last DM chord has a deliciously dissonant Bb enter stridently overtop, producing a major add 6 chord that is heard elsewhere in the Star Wars music, namely just as the storyline crawl fades to black at the opening of each film.

Then of course there's the Emperor's Theme after all this, which uses parallel minor chords, as Williams often does for scenes depicting evil or mystery.

[Datameister 2,041]

^ All very true. (Most of that I just didn't bother typing, but I genuinely forgot to include that Em before the CM, so I edited that back in there - thanks!)

[UWW 0]

Thanks guys, this is awesome!

"But it's also more nuanced in that there is typical Williams-esque parallelism after the dissonance over the Fm chord, going C/E - Bm/D - Am/C - Bm/D"

Could you explain this a bit more to me in the context of the progression posted by Datameister? I apologize if it's already clear, I just don't have enough music theory knowledge to follow.

Thanks again, you two, this really is awesome!

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Those are what are called slash chords, so say C/E means a C Major chord with the E (the third) in the bass. In open voicing from bottom to top this might look like - E-C-G-C-G, or E-C-G-C-E-G and so on. Slash chord is more of a pop/jazz thing. In classical theory a chord with the third in the bass is called a first inversion chord. Second inversion is with the fifth (in this case G) and root position is the standard C Major chord. The other inversions are for 7th chords. There's a way for notating these inversions called figured bass, but it's a bit complex, and even I sometimes forget the abbreviations.

The first chords in the cue (before your Youtube excerpt) on the tremolo strings are Bbm - Am add#11/E (here the #11 is D#) - Bbm - then:

Em - Bm - Fm - FmM9 - C/E- Bm/D- Am/C (these is a swift triplet descent)

Bm/D - Em - G - Am - Bm

Em - Bm - G (B-C#-D ascending trumpet figure here) - Bm - G

D (trumpets come in with A-Bb)

Low pedal Eb then rising trumpet figures in Ebm

Resume Emperor's Theme on Gm.

Anyone know what last two ominous chords are ('So bet it... Jedi')?

[Datameister 2,041]

Anyone know what last two ominous chords are ('So be it... Jedi')?

Ooooh, a challenge! If we're talking about the same two chords, here's what I'm hearing:

1. Tremolos on G# and B in the upper strings (maybe with a G on the bottom), with the bassline moving down from G to E and then to C#.

2. G-Ab-D#-E-G (in ascending order). Notice the {0, 8, 11} chord buried in there (in this case, Ab-E-G).

There may be other notes in there, or I might have the voicing a little off, but I'm 99.9999% sure that these pitches are present in some way or another.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Anyone know what last two ominous chords are ('So be it... Jedi')?

Ooooh, a challenge! If we're talking about the same two chords, here's what I'm hearing:

1. Tremolos on G# and B in the upper strings, with the bassline moving down from G to E and then to C#.

2. G-Ab-D#-E-G (in ascending order). Notice the {0, 8, 11} chord buried in there (in this case, Ab-E-G).

There may be other notes in there, or I might have the voicing a little off, but I'm 99.9999% sure that these pitches are present in some way or another.

That sounds right to me, again, if we're talking about the same little moment.

I've been fascinated by this whole section too for a long time but never tried to analyze it until now. That FmM9 you (Prometheus) mentioned doesn't sound right to my ears but it's probably just the voicing/my lack of a full orchestra to demonstrate it. It just sounds like there's something else in there

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

I think the 'extra something' you're hearing the is the very wide (microtonal) vibrato of the tenors and basses, doubling the main melodic line an octave lower.

I too have been long fascinated by the Emperor/Luke/Vader music from the last act of JEDI - that is everything from Luke and Vader's meeting in Endor to Vader's death. I'm not only fascinated by it musicologically, but it somehow hits a raw nerve emotionally. Maybe because it was the first STAR WARS film/score I experienced, and reminds me of the troubled relationship I had with my dad.

Anyway, has anyone else tried to transcribe-by-ear the rising contrapuntal clustral passage for when Luke is electrocuted and Vader has his epiphany? That's bloody difficult, let me tell you. I had to study moments in TEMPLE OF DOOM to get anywhere near close. It's like William's own version of Ligeti's micropolyphony (think his Requiem).

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

I think the 'extra something' you're hearing the is the very wide (microtonal) vibrato of the tenors and basses, doubling the main melodic line an octave lower.

I too have been long fascinated by the Emperor/Luke/Vader music from the last act of JEDI - that is everything from Luke and Vader's meeting in Endor to Vader's death. I'm not only fascinated by it musicologically, but it somehow hits a raw nerve emotionally. Maybe because it was the first STAR WARS film/score I experienced, and reminds me of the troubled relationship I had with my dad.

Anyway, has anyone else tried to transcribe-by-ear the rising contrapuntal clustral passage for when Luke is electrocuted and Vader has his epiphany? That's bloody difficult, let me tell you. I had to study moments in TEMPLE OF DOOM to get anywhere near close. It's like William's own version of Ligeti's micropolyphony (think his Requiem).

Ahhh, that's exactly what I'm hearing, yes. It is really a very compelling sequence. I find that it's usually the only part of the score that I'll listen to in isolation, because it feels so complete by itself.

And now that you mention it, I think I need to try those clusters....

[Datameister 2,041]

Anyway, has anyone else tried to transcribe-by-ear the rising contrapuntal clustral passage for when Luke is electrocuted and Vader has his epiphany? That's bloody difficult, let me tell you. I had to study moments in TEMPLE OF DOOM to get anywhere near close. It's like William's own version of Ligeti's micropolyphony (think his Requiem).

Ooooooh, that WOULD be a tough one. I might give that a shot later. Love it!

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Ok now I realize what was tripping me up. I wasn't taking the E-natural in the FmM9 chord into account. Sounds perfect now!

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Some more dissonances to look at:

Brother and Sister-Father Meets Son-Finding An Entrance-Fleet Goes Into Hyperspace-Heroic Ewok

- Sustained chord at 05:03 when Vader switches on Luke's lightsaber.

- 05:19-57 - everything from the dramatic chord through the fourth species counterpoint passage

Emperor's Throne Room

- Eerie chord at 0:55

- Two chords at 3:00 and 3:08

Into The Trap-Rebel Forces Captured-First Ewok Battle-Fight With The Fighters

- Crescendo chord at 2:50 accompanied by gong swipe with coin

Leia Is Wounded-Luke and Vader Duel-The Battle Rages-More Duel-Into The Death Star-The Emperor's Death

- 1:28-2:01 - Portamento muted strings with marimba, harp harmonics, synth or glass harmonica

- 6:14 - Luke looks at his mechanical hand - strings and muted brass

Get to it!

[Datameister 2,041]

Hahaha, we'll see!

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

- 1:28-2:01 - Portamento muted strings with marimba, harp harmonics, synth or glass harmonica

Ahhh I love this one. A little Bartok-ish.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

- 1:28-2:01 - Portamento muted strings with marimba, harp harmonics, synth or glass harmonica

Ahhh I love this one. A little Bartok-ish.

Very night music, ain't it?

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Quite.

If pouring over the minutiae of John Williams underscore is wrong, then I don't want to be right.

[Datameister 2,041]

Damn, I just can't resist. Here's what I'm hearing - no guarantee of accuracy, but as before, I'm pretty sure these notes are at least some of the notes that are present.

Brother and Sister-Father Meets Son-Finding An Entrance-Fleet Goes Into Hyperspace-Heroic Ewok

- Sustained chord at 05:03 when Vader switches on Luke's lightsaber.

Clarinet semitone trill on B and C. Flutes (and/or other woodwinds, maybe muted trumpets?) play F-G-C-E with B still continuing beneath. (Not sure about the quick preparatory chord before the flutes jump up to that dissonance, but it's definitely got A on top.) Then the low brass starts to come in with Ab in octaves.

- 05:19-57 - everything from the dramatic chord through the fourth species counterpoint passage

That one's too long and involved to write out as text, but I might give it a go with actual notation.

Emperor's Throne Room

- Eerie chord at 0:55

Seems to be some voicing of Ab-Bb-D-C-Bb...

- Two chords at 3:00 and 3:08

D-Eb-Gb in...muted trombones, maybe? Muted trumpet moves from Bb to A. The high violins have something that tops out on C, maybe with a B right beneath it? Maybe it's F-Gb-B-C? Tough for my ear to separate out the pitches, but that would fit into the D half-whole diminished scale that nearly all the other notes belong to, and it sounds about right on piano.

Into The Trap-Rebel Forces Captured-First Ewok Battle-Fight With The Fighters

- Crescendo chord at 2:50 accompanied by gong swipe with coin

Tough one. I'm pretty positive that there's an A-Bb-Db in there, but there's probably some other tones I'm missing.

Leia Is Wounded-Luke and Vader Duel-The Battle Rages-More Duel-Into The Death Star-The Emperor's Death

- 1:28-2:01 - Portamento muted strings with marimba, harp harmonics, synth or glass harmonica

That's another one that would be a waste of time to type up as text, but I might give it a shot with notation, as well. I think there are two melodic lines here, each doubled a sixth down, and traveling in contrary motion. Some of these combinations are going to form diminished 7ths or other recognizable chords...others, not so much. (BTW, I love that whole passage. So marvelously eerie.)

- 6:14 - Luke looks at his mechanical hand - strings and muted brass

I'm almost sure I'm missing notes, but I do hear Eb-Gb-Ab-B-C in the strings, with the brass alternating between B and C.

Take it all with a grain of salt!

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Yeah, I do all of this out by hand onto manuscript paper... maybe I'll see if my scanner is big enough to handle Hal Leonard sized paper.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

I'm using Sonic Visualiser to slow down the tracks (with minimal distortion/comb filtering) and get an idea of what pitches are in the chords.

Damn, I just can't resist. Here's what I'm hearing - no guarantee of accuracy, but as before, I'm pretty sure these notes are at least some of the notes that are present.

Brother and Sister-Father Meets Son-Finding An Entrance-Fleet Goes Into Hyperspace-Heroic Ewok

- Sustained chord at 05:03 when Vader switches on Luke's lightsaber.

(Not sure about the quick preparatory chord before the flutes jump up to that dissonance, but it's definitely got A on top.)

That's what I was talking about.

I agree, definitely an A6-E7 up above. My Peak Frequency Spectrogram told me than there's also an E, D and D# below, though I'm not sure how accurate that is. Some of those could be white noise or upper partials from the timpani or bass.

Emperor's Throne Room

- Eerie chord at 0:55

Seems to be some voicing of Ab-Bb-D-C-Bb...

My take is pedal D in octaves, then A-D-E-G#-D-E-(F#?)-G#-A#-C-D-G - the last G being G7, the highest G on the piano. Definitely a whole tone thing going on (listen to that descending muted trombone figure) disturbed by the D-A perfect fifth. That's a very Williams dissonance - look to the opening bar of 8M4 The Mirror Scene from The Philosopher's Stone, bar 75 of 7m3 Finale from ATOTC ("Begun the Clone War has"), or bar 55 from 8m1 E.T's Machine. A lot of the scarier moments from E.T. remind me of these ROTJ cues.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

I'm using Sonic Visualiser to slow down the tracks (with minimal distortion/comb filtering) and get an idea of what pitches are in the chords.

That's a great idea. I used to use something (maybe Audacity?) to do that on my old computer, but never installed it on my new one. I'll have to take a look at that one you mentioned.

[tedfud 38]

this works surprisingly well.

http://supermegaultragroovy.com/products/Capo/

t

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

There's another passage, this time from Episode III, that I've been fascinated by for a long time. It's nowhere near as complex as these we've been discussing, but it always sticks out to me. It's only a few seconds long, and plays under Palpatine's little speech about Darth Plagueis. It's pretty standard Williams "archaic" writing, but it has always felt very evocative to me of the idea of how ancient the Sith are. I think it would be a wonderful little bit to develop if films were ever made about Old Republic era stuff.

You can hear it at about 40:30 in.

[Ludwig 1,120]

There's another passage, this time from Episode III, that I've been fascinated by for a long time. It's nowhere near as complex as these we've been discussing, but it always sticks out to me. It's only a few seconds long, and plays under Palpatine's little speech about Darth Plagueis. It's pretty standard Williams "archaic" writing, but it has always felt very evocative to me of the idea of how ancient the Sith are. I think it would be a wonderful little bit to develop if films were ever made about Old Republic era stuff.

I would venture that part of the ancient sound has to do with the fact that all of the chords in the passage are from the basic triads of any key, I, IV, and V, giving the music an elemental sound that, when combined with its minor key and low tonic pedal bass, creates an eerily mythic sound.

It reminds me a bit of the grail theme from The Last Crusade (though that one has a modal inflection at its start). And actually, if you listen to the melodies of both, you can hear a striking similarity in contour - in the grail theme, you have (after the initial rise of a 4th) a step down, a few steps up, and ending with a cadence going tonic-leading note-tonic (1-7-1). Same thing in the Sith theme here - and both are in minor as well. Williams probably associated these features with something archaic yet shrouded in mystery.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

You know, I really love that muted horn motif you hear when that little 'archaic passage' resolves to the C#m. It's one of the few times Williams uses the Hungarian minor scale in a thematic way, emphasising its characteristic intervals - the #4, p5 and b6. I call it the 'The Call of Dark Side.' It's heard throughout the score to great effect, i.e. when Obi Wan plays back the Jedi Temple security recordings.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

There's another passage, this time from Episode III, that I've been fascinated by for a long time. It's nowhere near as complex as these we've been discussing, but it always sticks out to me. It's only a few seconds long, and plays under Palpatine's little speech about Darth Plagueis. It's pretty standard Williams "archaic" writing, but it has always felt very evocative to me of the idea of how ancient the Sith are. I think it would be a wonderful little bit to develop if films were ever made about Old Republic era stuff.

I would venture that part of the ancient sound has to do with the fact that all of the chords in the passage are from the basic triads of any key, I, IV, and V, giving the music an elemental sound that, when combined with its minor key and low tonic pedal bass, creates an eerily mythic sound.

It reminds me a bit of the grail theme from The Last Crusade (though that one has a modal inflection at its start). And actually, if you listen to the melodies of both, you can hear a striking similarity in contour - in the grail theme, you have (after the initial rise of a 4th) a step down, a few steps up, and ending with a cadence going tonic-leading note-tonic (1-7-1). Same thing in the Sith theme here - and both are in minor as well. Williams probably associated these features with something archaic yet shrouded in mystery.

Exactly. I really enjoy the moments where he does that kind of thing. The pedal point is especially satisfying. Simple, but so effective.

Actually, looking over the score, it's even simpler than that. No tonic pedal. Just celli, violas, and synths moving through C#m, G#, F#m, and an incomplete G#m7.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Love this moment in LAST CRUSADE.

http://grooveshark.com/#!/search/song?q=John+Williams+Ah%2C+Rats

@1:43

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Now there's some great pedal action.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

- 6:14 - Luke looks at his mechanical hand - strings and muted brass

I'm almost sure I'm missing notes, but I do hear Eb-Gb-Ab-B-C in the strings, with the brass alternating between B and C.

My take is C-C#-D#-E-G-G#-B-C - or some other permutation with those pitches - can't hear Gb. For reference, look to the clustral polychord (that includes the notes of Fm, Em, Abm and Dbm) at the end of 2m2 Looking for E.T.

@01:26

[Ludwig 1,120]

There's another passage, this time from Episode III, that I've been fascinated by for a long time. It's nowhere near as complex as these we've been discussing, but it always sticks out to me. It's only a few seconds long, and plays under Palpatine's little speech about Darth Plagueis. It's pretty standard Williams "archaic" writing, but it has always felt very evocative to me of the idea of how ancient the Sith are. I think it would be a wonderful little bit to develop if films were ever made about Old Republic era stuff.

I would venture that part of the ancient sound has to do with the fact that all of the chords in the passage are from the basic triads of any key, I, IV, and V, giving the music an elemental sound that, when combined with its minor key and low tonic pedal bass, creates an eerily mythic sound.

It reminds me a bit of the grail theme from The Last Crusade (though that one has a modal inflection at its start). And actually, if you listen to the melodies of both, you can hear a striking similarity in contour - in the grail theme, you have (after the initial rise of a 4th) a step down, a few steps up, and ending with a cadence going tonic-leading note-tonic (1-7-1). Same thing in the Sith theme here - and both are in minor as well. Williams probably associated these features with something archaic yet shrouded in mystery.

Exactly. I really enjoy the moments where he does that kind of thing. The pedal point is especially satisfying. Simple, but so effective.

Actually, looking over the score, it's even simpler than that. No tonic pedal. Just celli, violas, and synths moving through C#m, G#, F#m, and an incomplete G#m7.

So there isn't. Thanks for directing me to this. I suppose I'm hearing an implied tonic pedal here because the passage is surrounded by C#s in the bass. And I think register has a lot to do with what we hear as the "real" bass in a passage. Notice, for example, that these low C#s are in the same deep register. That gives them a connection that seems to imply that the C# persists underneath the "archaic" passage even though it's not literally present. And notice how much of a leap one would have to hear in the bass line if we consider the C# to be going directly to the G# in the cello an octave and a half higher.

An example in the classical repertoire would be the C minor prelude in book I of Bach's Well-Tempered Clavier. Bar 28 has a dominant pedal enter in the bass, then it disappears in the next bar and the "bass" leaps up an octave and a half. The pedal seems to be implied all the way to the end of m. 33, where another dominant chord enters to resolve the absent pedal before moving to a tonic chord (itself elided with an applied dominant). It's that kind of thing I think I'm hearing in the ROTS cue. An implied pedal that isn't literally present but implied due to a large break in the "bass" register.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Anyone know what last two ominous chords are ('So be it... Jedi')?

Ooooh, a challenge! If we're talking about the same two chords, here's what I'm hearing:

1. Tremolos on G# and B in the upper strings (maybe with a G on the bottom), with the bassline moving down from G to E and then to C#.

2. G-Ab-D#-E-G (in ascending order). Notice the {0, 8, 11} chord buried in there (in this case, Ab-E-G).

1. Definitely an Ab, B and a G in the bass (then down to E and Db), but also an Eb and D. I hear it as G-G D-Eb-Ab-B. Remember the previous tonality is Cm (with the force theme passed between trumpet, clarinet and flute) - the i -> vi#11 and back is a harmonic minor progression Williams uses a lot (think the Imperial March and a lot of his action music).

2. Ab-Db-Eb-G-G with a viola trill between the Eb and E. Good call on the the 0,9,11.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

There's another passage, this time from Episode III, that I've been fascinated by for a long time. It's nowhere near as complex as these we've been discussing, but it always sticks out to me. It's only a few seconds long, and plays under Palpatine's little speech about Darth Plagueis. It's pretty standard Williams "archaic" writing, but it has always felt very evocative to me of the idea of how ancient the Sith are. I think it would be a wonderful little bit to develop if films were ever made about Old Republic era stuff.

I would venture that part of the ancient sound has to do with the fact that all of the chords in the passage are from the basic triads of any key, I, IV, and V, giving the music an elemental sound that, when combined with its minor key and low tonic pedal bass, creates an eerily mythic sound.

It reminds me a bit of the grail theme from The Last Crusade (though that one has a modal inflection at its start). And actually, if you listen to the melodies of both, you can hear a striking similarity in contour - in the grail theme, you have (after the initial rise of a 4th) a step down, a few steps up, and ending with a cadence going tonic-leading note-tonic (1-7-1). Same thing in the Sith theme here - and both are in minor as well. Williams probably associated these features with something archaic yet shrouded in mystery.

Exactly. I really enjoy the moments where he does that kind of thing. The pedal point is especially satisfying. Simple, but so effective.

Actually, looking over the score, it's even simpler than that. No tonic pedal. Just celli, violas, and synths moving through C#m, G#, F#m, and an incomplete G#m7.

So there isn't. Thanks for directing me to this. I suppose I'm hearing an implied tonic pedal here because the passage is surrounded by C#s in the bass. And I think register has a lot to do with what we hear as the "real" bass in a passage. Notice, for example, that these low C#s are in the same deep register. That gives them a connection that seems to imply that the C# persists underneath the "archaic" passage even though it's not literally present. And notice how much of a leap one would have to hear in the bass line if we consider the C# to be going directly to the G# in the cello an octave and a half higher.

An example in the classical repertoire would be the C minor prelude in book I of Bach's Well-Tempered Clavier. Bar 28 has a dominant pedal enter in the bass, then it disappears in the next bar and the "bass" leaps up an octave and a half. The pedal seems to be implied all the way to the end of m. 33, where another dominant chord enters to resolve the absent pedal before moving to a tonic chord (itself elided with an applied dominant). It's that kind of thing I think I'm hearing in the ROTS cue. An implied pedal that isn't literally present but implied due to a large break in the "bass" register.

Initially I thought that there might be one there, just not in the score - it seems that the "sepulchral" droning male voice parts aren't written into the score for whatever reason, unless I'm just missing something. But on re-listening, it does seem to appear as written, with that tonic only implied as you say.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

- Two chords at 3:00 and 3:08

D-Eb-Gb in...muted trombones, maybe? Muted trumpet moves from Bb to A. The high violins have something that tops out on C, maybe with a B right beneath it? Maybe it's F-Gb-B-C? Tough for my ear to separate out the pitches, but that would fit into the D half-whole diminished scale that nearly all the other notes belong to, and it sounds about right on piano.

Call me crazy here, but I hear a chromatic cluster buried. D-Eb-Fb-Gb-A-Bb - not sure about the violin harmonics, though definitely a C on top.

Into The Trap-Rebel Forces Captured-First Ewok Battle-Fight With The Fighters

- Crescendo chord at 2:50 accompanied by gong swipe with coin

Tough one. I'm pretty positive that there's an A-Bb-Db in there, but there's probably some other tones I'm missing.

I think it's D-F-A#-C# (DmM7#5) resolving to Bbm with the 2 note Hungarian minor 'Doom Motif' (b6 to #4 - Gb to E) that Williams features in many of his scores. It's his equivalent of Horner's Danger Motif. I'm surprised no one's mentioned it before.

[Datameister 2,041]

Into The Trap-Rebel Forces Captured-First Ewok Battle-Fight With The Fighters

- Crescendo chord at 2:50 accompanied by gong swipe with coin

Tough one. I'm pretty positive that there's an A-Bb-Db in there, but there's probably some other tones I'm missing.

I think it's D-F-A#-C# (DmM7#5) resolving to Bbm with the 2 note Hungarian minor 'Doom Motif' (b6 to #4 - Gb to E) that Williams features in many of his scores. It's his equivalent of Horner's Danger Motif. I'm surprised no one's mentioned it before.

It took me a moment to realize what you're talking about, but yeah, that motif shows up in sooooooo many Williams scores. I think it doesn't really get talked about like the danger motif because it's a little less...distinctive? It can blend into a lot of different passages without calling as much attention to itself. He'll often start it with the 5 (i.e., 5-b6-#4), and sometimes it'll wind back and forth between the pitches for a bit, which gives it a little more of its own identity. Consider for instance the diminuendo after the destruction of Alderaan.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Maybe it deserves its own thread archiving all the times it shows up?

BTW, anyone in contact with Williams's personal librarian?

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Ha - I wish I had connections like that. I'm imprisoned on the wrong coast of the US unfortunately.

[Remains of Nurhachi 0]

You're wrong. George Lucas composed all the music for his movies. John Williams wrote the songs.

Get your facts right.

[Datameister 2,041]

Maybe it deserves its own thread archiving all the times it shows up?

I'd be lying if I said I'd never considered it, haha.

BTW, anyone in contact with Williams's personal librarian?

I'm not even aware of any references to him having a personal librarian, though I'd certainly believe it. (I guess it goes without saying that I don't have any such connections.)

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Any more thoughts, Ludwig?

[Ludwig 1,120]

Any more thoughts, Ludwig?

I'm not sure it's possible to know exactly what's being played in these eerily dissonant passages. What I will say is that they really don't sound entirely atonal despite the harshness of the dissonance, and I think part of that is due to Williams heavy reliance on sustained pitches, whether we call them pedal points or not. In other words, there always seems to be a note or set of notes that is being held while dissonances shift above or beneath. That kind of sustained-note writing can give the sense of what they call "centrality" to the music - a kind of pitch centre that seems to move around with each chord. I think it goes a long way in explaining why these passages always have a feeling of clarity to them, like we know what's going on even when the harmonies are wrought into twisted chords. In short, they give comprehensibility to harmonies that would otherwise be rather incomprehensible. Like the non-tonal chords that he makes sound tonal. Brilliantly done in both kinds of cases.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

It's what you might call controlled chaos.

[Datameister 2,041]

I'm not sure it's possible to know exactly what's being played in these eerily dissonant passages. What I will say is that they really don't sound entirely atonal despite the harshness of the dissonance, and I think part of that is due to Williams heavy reliance on sustained pitches, whether we call them pedal points or not. In other words, there always seems to be a note or set of notes that is being held while dissonances shift above or beneath. That kind of sustained-note writing can give the sense of what they call "centrality" to the music - a kind of pitch centre that seems to move around with each chord. I think it goes a long way in explaining why these passages always have a feeling of clarity to them, like we know what's going on even when the harmonies are wrought into twisted chords. In short, they give comprehensibility to harmonies that would otherwise be rather incomprehensible. Like the non-tonal chords that he makes sound tonal. Brilliantly done in both kinds of cases.

Very well said.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Yeah, I do all of this out by hand onto manuscript paper... maybe I'll see if my scanner is big enough to handle Hal Leonard sized paper.

Any luck with this?

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

I gave it a try that night, but the manuscript paper I usually use is too big. Feel like there's no space to think on smaller paper. I could break out some normal sized notebooks next time though.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Order a Noligraph. They're a Godsend.

[dylan345 3]

Maybe it deserves its own thread archiving all the times it shows up?

I'd be lying if I said I'd never considered it, haha.

BTW, anyone in contact with Williams's personal librarian?

I'm not even aware of any references to him having a personal librarian, though I'd certainly believe it. (I guess it goes without saying that I don't have any such connections.)

Actually Williams does have a personal librarian, she's flautist Karen Smith. There was in interview with her in the May 2013 issue of FSM.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

I gave it a try that night, but the manuscript paper I usually use is too big. Feel like there's no space to think on smaller paper. I could break out some normal sized notebooks next time though.

Any luck?

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Completely forgot.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Then get to it!

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Opening chords: Bbm -> F#m/A -> Fm/Ab -> ?/E? -> Cm/Eb -> Bm/D -> Ebm/Gb -> Bm -> Ebm?

:32: Pitch centre appears to be Dm, with chromatic aberrations that suggests a D Hungarian minor (raised fourth, flat fifth and raised 7th degree). Not sure about the chromatically planing minor triads in the low winds - any ideas? What are the violins playing in their circular runs?

1:22 - What in beejesus are the violins doing:? Is this C#mMaj7b13/C?

1:36 - (F-F-D-Eb-Ab-B)?

1:44?

2:07-11