filmmusic 1,821 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 We all know that John Williams' first score for a theatrical film is Daddy-O (1959).There is another movie for which Williams wrote unknown cues and he's uncredited and it is discussed here:http://www.filmscore...mID=1&archive=0the film is My Gun is Quick (1957) with music by Marlin Skiles.Now, according to Jameson281 in the above thread (whose attention I can't seem to be able to attract since I would like him to reply to a question of mine about this),"One cue ("Murder on the Stairs") lasting about a minute and a half is credited to "John T. Williams.""I haven't watched the whole film, but just from a quick glance I found the scene with a murder on the stairs so this must be the cue in question.http://k002.kiwi6.com/hotlink/44obxrujsj/my_gun_is_quick_murder_on_stairs.mp3 Now, I don't know for sure if this is Williams, but if Jameson's statements are true, this could be his very first cue for a theatrically released film!(I posted this topic in FSM too) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,451 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 If this is indeed Williams -- and everything points in that direction -- then it's surely a fascinating find, although the music in itself is rather non-descript suspense stuff. He would have been 25 years at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airmanjerm 78 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Filmmusic,Could you get this in lossless please? Preferably without sound effects? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filmmusic 1,821 Posted January 13, 2012 Author Share Posted January 13, 2012 well, the SFX were even louder. I did what I could to lessen them... by the way, I like how the whole cue is unified, based on one 4note motif.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indy4 155 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Nice find! Interesting listen.Although the first film he scored was called You Are Welcome (1953). It was made by the Canadian National Film Board, and the film "extolled the virtues of the Maritime Provinces." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filmmusic 1,821 Posted January 13, 2012 Author Share Posted January 13, 2012 Nice find! Interesting listen.Although the first film he scored was called You Are Welcome (1953). It was made by the Canadian National Film Board, and the film "extolled the virtues of the Maritime Provinces."yes, we discussed this at FSM.that's why I put in my post "theatrically released" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie 1 Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Fascinating. I've been studying the early John Williams for quite a while now,pretty in depth, and I can only say I'm positive:It sounds, indeed, like early Williams.So the tracks seems to be composed by JW. However, it doesn't sound at alllike orchestrated or conducted by JW...It's only an educated guess, but I believe the cue was recorded by eitherAlexander Courage or Marlin Skiles.Kudos to filmmusic for bringing it to us.pw:If anyone here would be able to detect and copy somehow the traveloguefilm "You are welcome" from 1953, which I'm searching for, that would bejust great. Absolutely! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filmmusic 1,821 Posted January 15, 2012 Author Share Posted January 15, 2012 pw:If anyone here would be able to detect and copy somehow the traveloguefilm "You are welcome" from 1953, which I'm searching for, that would bejust great. Absolutely!well, we were looking for it also.i had personally sent an email to the Canadian Film board or what is it called, because they didn't have it in their site, but they never responded.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,451 Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 pw:If anyone here would be able to detect and copy somehow the traveloguefilm "You are welcome" from 1953, which I'm searching for, that would bejust great. Absolutely!well, we were looking for it also.i had personally sent an email to the Canadian Film board or what is it called, because they didn't have it in their site, but they never responded..That would actually be an interesting topic -- what measures have we gone to to acquire these obscure films (or scores).I've done a fair amount of research to find STORIA DI UNA DONNA, for example, the last remaining feature film by JW I haven't seen. I've contacted the guy who had the audio rip on youtube (didn't have it), I've contacted Universal (no response), I've even tried to contact star Bibi Andersson (to no avail...her listed agency didn't actually represent her after all) and the director's grandson, who is an actor (haven't found contact info) and scoured the net for contact info for the other, living creative people involved. Everything has come up blank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filmmusic 1,821 Posted January 16, 2012 Author Share Posted January 16, 2012 about "You're Welcome":I sent another email to Newfoundland university library or something like this (i was guided there by the Film Board of Canada site, which said that "here's some places where you can find our films").Since it is a Newfoundland travelogue maybe they know better.We'll wait and see.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie 1 Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Hi there!I'm the source for that youtube clip of "Storia di una donna".Not the original source btw.In late 2009, I received a tape from Kevin (at the FSM board) who taped the film when it was shown for the last time on tv on british television. Kevin, our saveguard, always on the alert, taped it with a mono microphone held to the tv speaker - in 1982. Can you imagine that? That's how I started to capture my first soundtracks, probably like many of us.The film is virtually lost. Researching the topic I remember having read somewhere that the film wasn't properly released at all, theatrically. It was shown over Europe and in the USA in certain army bases when it came out. It has never been showed since 1982. Through the magic of Kevin, all that remains for us is the cassette recorder tape he sent me.I was very happy to get this recording, and tried my best to "restore" and "process" what I got, to make it more listenable, spending a good week on it. I made mp3s of what was the result of this labor of love and shared it only with a few close collecting friends. A week later, it appeared on youtube, heavily edited and not complete. If you want the original mp3s, just email me.The film is not available on VHS and not on DVD - even in these times where we are used to get almost everything in a split-second. Somehow I like the idea that some stuff is so obscure. It makes the search more worthwhile.Thanks for putting all your effort in researching this one, Thor. I love listening to Williams' pre-JAWS oeuvre, as I enjoy to see how everything came together and developed over the "first 16 years".Augie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filmmusic 1,821 Posted January 16, 2012 Author Share Posted January 16, 2012 thanks for your information Augie.yes, we were hoping if anyone had video recorded the film from TV (since it is not availbale in DVD or VHS), but no luck there either... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TownerFan 4,983 Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I once tried to get information about this film here in Italy, but apparently no one seems to remember it of even be aware of it. It was an Italian-American production (hence why Williams was assigned to this movie), released through Universal Pictures. It appears it was barely released over here and it was never aired on our television channels.The song based on the main theme ("Uno di qua, l'altra di la") is sung by a then-very popular female singer (Ornella Vanoni). She's still alive and well--I should try to get in contact with her and ask if she remembers something about it.According to IMDb, the film was aired several times on NBC in United States. Maybe someone should check with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie 1 Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I think it will be a difficult subject to write a book about JW, in musicalterms. Williams is changing his style every 15 years or so. Also, the different styles are overlapping. He also develops about 4 different "sub-styles"in each period, also simultaneously. And unlike other composers outside the film scoring world, he cannot always do what he wants, and has tocatch the overall tones of the movies. So he has to switch around withhis style, a lot. Which makes it hard to trace.I'm listening to JW since 1985. Since I was 11. The closer you come to him, the more the picture gets blurred. He's basically a chameleon. Atotal chameleon. Which he needs to be in the profession he works in. I tried to find answers in his earlier work, pre-JAWS, which I think is hisfirst big milestone composition. What I found in the material he composedbefore Jaws, was a young composer who was able to adapt to any givenstyle of music (just like a pianist who can play everything, but with a fullorchestra). He arranged and conducted even Elvis-like cheesy Vegas-Blues stuff, if somebody needed it (listen to the Mahalia Jackson albums).He did folksy stuff for a couple of early 70s films when it was trendy. Or ajazzy thing for Clint Eastwood who requested that. He composed in the style of Mancini or even Herrmann or when he was asked to (60s comedies,"The Fury"). Or crime jazz when it was required ("invented" by Alex Northand Elmer Bernstein.John Williams was, from the early days on, a MASTER OF IMITATION.This goes even so far that, if you listen closely to his whole output between1957 and 1975, you might think you are listening to 8 different composers.I think he has a natural gift for imitating individual music styles (the geniuspart of his personality), and a intellectual understanding of how importantit is to do research to make it sound.From 1975 onwards, until somewhere between 1985-1989, Williams was inhis second, and most popular mode: Using a jazz idiom for a full symphonyorchestra (similar to John Barry, but not that obvious), he created his mostoutstanding masterpieces. This isn't a "classical period", really. He just used big orchestras. Orchestral, but rooted in Jazz, actually. The end point may be"The Witches of Eastwick".After that, he entered his classical period. Some call it pseudo-classical. With scores like Accidental Tourist or Empire Of The Sun (but already in Space Camp, which makes it difficult to categorize), JW dropped the jazz idiom infavour of a more classical idiom. Scores like Hook or Last Crusade have apretty Russian vibe going on, Tchaikovsky, Prokofjew, you name them.That period is still going on, in the larger perspective. But it also can be broken down in four dominant styles. The Russian sup-period, as mentioned. The period about solo-instrumentalists (Tony Morrisson, Itzhak Perlman, etc) whichseems to go from 1989 to 2000. Then the experimental period (2001-2005), whichsees Williams sort of channeling "modern" composers like Glass and Gorecki. Itoverlaps seamlessly with the 4tth and pre-dominant sub-period of self-referentiality:In various children movie scores Williams is repeating a tamer version of the musicof his younger self (Potter). While in scores like "Catch me if you can" it is all about re-discovering his own jazz roots. Also, with the Star Wars prequels, and IndianaJones or Tintin, he is downright forced to revisit his former landmark scores - butthey sound different, of course, since he has dropped the jazz idiom long time ago.I think he still imitates whatever he wants to capture/imitate (even himself). But he does it with so much honesty and musical genius, that it's not baffling anybody. I even would say, it goes by unnoticed by most listeners. Occasional listeners as wellas his fans. John Williams - rocket science, really. If you think about it.Augie Gnome in Plaid 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Andrade 1,260 Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Hi there!I'm the source for that youtube clip of "Storia di una donna".Not the original source btw.In late 2009, I received a tape from Kevin (at the FSM board) who taped the film when it was shown for the last time on tv on british television. Kevin, our saveguard, always on the alert, taped it with a mono microphone held to the tv speaker - in 1982. Can you imagine that? That's how I started to capture my first soundtracks, probably like many of us.The film is virtually lost. Researching the topic I remember having read somewhere that the film wasn't properly released at all, theatrically. It was shown over Europe and in the USA in certain army bases when it came out. It has never been showed since 1982. Through the magic of Kevin, all that remains for us is the cassette recorder tape he sent me.I was very happy to get this recording, and tried my best to "restore" and "process" what I got, to make it more listenable, spending a good week on it. I made mp3s of what was the result of this labor of love and shared it only with a few close collecting friends. A week later, it appeared on youtube, heavily edited and not complete. If you want the original mp3s, just email me.The film is not available on VHS and not on DVD - even in these times where we are used to get almost everything in a split-second. Somehow I like the idea that some stuff is so obscure. It makes the search more worthwhile.Thanks for putting all your effort in researching this one, Thor. I love listening to Williams' pre-JAWS oeuvre, as I enjoy to see how everything came together and developed over the "first 16 years".AugieVery interesting. I was also sent that same old tape, but since at the time -- some 6 years ago -- my audio restoration abilities were very limited I tried to pass the transfer to a more competent fellow. Sadly he never got around those. When I was somewhat prepared to work of them, being more confident in working with some audio tools, your work poped up on youtube and I decided to wait if further stuff to show up, in the hopes that this would be the real thing, and not what in fact it is...Still, great work in cleaning up those files. I for sure would love to listen to the whole thing.As for Ornela Vanoni, she sung the song, and that one was even released on a CD compilation dedicated to her, sadly out of print, but can easily be purchased on iTunes. It was originally released on a single back in 1972, which I've tried to get for a couple of times, when it showed up on eBay, but with no luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TownerFan 4,983 Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I'm currently on a serious hunt to find a copy of Storia di una donna. I have reliable contacts who are giving me a hand. I'll keep you updated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filmmusic 1,821 Posted January 17, 2012 Author Share Posted January 17, 2012 Oh, great.. If only you could find one!!! Fingers crossed! * * *I've got FINALLY some news about the Newfoundland travelogue film "You are Welcome"!!!the response I got from the library i told you in post #10!"We do have a copy of You Are Welcome. I just viewed the opening credits and John Williams is there. We do not lend videos outside the province but if there is something in particular you want to know about it let me know"I sent another message too asking if there is any way for anyone to aquire a copy of the film? Or if he can do that from another institution. But I doubt it. At least we know now that it exists! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,249 Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 So if a Newfoundland resident where to go to that library they could check it out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filmmusic 1,821 Posted January 17, 2012 Author Share Posted January 17, 2012 I am not sure. But usually I believe you can study material inside whatever library..I'm waiting for his answer and I'll update with more information then... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airmanjerm 78 Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Since that score to "You Are Welcome" was recorded by members of the Air Force Band that was stationed there at the time (and Williams was a member of it during that period), I may be able to see if our Air Force Bands historian can inquire about it. They may be more willing to loan it out (or make a copy) if there's something like that behind the request. If nothing else, tell the dude they should put it up on their YouTube channel (if they have one) and watch how fast they draw viewer hits... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie 1 Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 @ filmmusic & airmenjermThat's fantastic news!Let's immigrate there.They do have a copy.Unbelievable! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tharpdevenport 4 Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Now start asking if they have, or know where to start the hunt for, master tapes. Heck, if they have archives, they may even have photos taken during/after the music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie 1 Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 John Williams' very first (adventure) film score.They have a copy and we know where it's located.Am I exaggerating or does this deserve a wholenew thread, folks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filmmusic 1,821 Posted January 17, 2012 Author Share Posted January 17, 2012 yes, maybe it does.Although I don't consider this Williams' first film score.(well, perhaps his first score for visuals generally) I mean it's not a narrative film that was released theatrically..But hold all your excitement, because i bet the only way for anyone to see this is if he goes to the library in Newfoundland! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie 1 Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Going to a library in Newfoundland...it's not the definition of "Science Fiction",if you ask me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filmmusic 1,821 Posted January 17, 2012 Author Share Posted January 17, 2012 more about the subject on pms.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airmanjerm 78 Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 more about the subject on pms..I know what you mean, but I can't help but giggle just a little at your verbage.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filmmusic 1,821 Posted January 17, 2012 Author Share Posted January 17, 2012 verbage?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airmanjerm 78 Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 The way you worded it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,326 Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Is that a joke about pms AirManJerm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airmanjerm 78 Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Is that a joke about pms AirManJerm?Sorry... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie 1 Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Don't mind, filmmusic.Your wording is cool.Long live Ron Perlman! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airmanjerm 78 Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Don't mind, filmmusic.Your wording is cool.Long live Ron Perlman!He knows it's not a personal attack, I just had a junior high moment. But while we're on the subject, the human torch was denied a bank loan.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omen II 1,235 Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 This is a cool thread. And to filmmusic and airmanjerm: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tharpdevenport 4 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Find a fan in that country who can go there and barrow a copy, then express air it over night to somebody, like Majestyx, to copy the film and master it a little and then send it back. Operation We're Gonna Get A Copy Anyway, Ha Ha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie 1 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 It's forbidden. People have been sued for smaller things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filmmusic 1,821 Posted January 18, 2012 Author Share Posted January 18, 2012 It's forbidden. People have been sued for smaller things.I'm sure he was joking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tharpdevenport 4 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 They have to prove it first. I'm serious -- lets make a fair use copy for our benefit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themerryonion 0 Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 I live in Newfoundland and am currently doing some research on the time that John Williams spent at the air force base here. I am definitely going to look for this film, and I'll see if I can find out how to get a copy of it for you guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jilal 569 Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 It's definately a JW cue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airmanjerm 78 Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Hi all...Resurrecting this thread to post a new item. A while back I had sent a copy of that original Air Force newspaper article to JW's agent - I'd worked with his agent a while back regarding some permissions for arranging/recording. I had assumed that because I put it out on the internet a few years ago that it had made its way to him somehow, but I guess not.Anyway, I also referenced the "You Are Welcome" film and asked if it was his first actual film score, or if there had been anything previous. Yesterday I received a letter at work (unusual, since I never get mail here at the office), and it was actually from John Williams.There's nothing really super-personal in it, so I thought I would share. Here's a scan. Fun stuff!-JM Marc and Quintus 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Once 604 Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Amazing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,249 Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Are there musical notes on the other side of the page? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filmmusic 1,821 Posted August 22, 2012 Author Share Posted August 22, 2012 Are there musical notes on the other side of the page?hehe. Do you think that he provided a page of a score of his on the other side?Thank you very much airmanjerm!! This is valuable! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Holy WOW!That is just stunning! Oh man, I'd be in awe of such a letter if it were addressed to me. Congratulations Jeremy airmanjerm 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ren 75 Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Really really cool!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airmanjerm 78 Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Are there musical notes on the other side of the page?Thanks guys, it was definitely an exciting thing to receive. But no, no music on the other side. What you're seeing there is where the paper was folded before the ink was dry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filmmusic 1,821 Posted August 22, 2012 Author Share Posted August 22, 2012 I thought this was typed, or printed in a computer.Doesn't the ink dries instantly?At least in my printer it does (and i have a cheap thing). airmanjerm 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,249 Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 What you're seeing there is where the paper was folded before the ink was dry.Ah, of course! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koray Savas 2,251 Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Awesome. airmanjerm 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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