Howard Shore's The Desolation Of Smaug (Hobbit Part 2)

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The tight schedule is all the more reason to draft in copyists.

[Incanus 5,714]

I woudl think copyists would be automatically on the composer's staff. Not a single composer copies the instrumental parts themselves.

Oh and the amount of music Shore wrote during the hottest post production hurry was around 6 minutes/day, not 10, at least if you go by the RotK EE postproduction documentaries, which is still about 3x the amount the composer normally writes per day (both Shore and Williams have mentioned that about 2 minutes would be average for them) but it was still fully orchestrated musical material so that must have been absolutely exhausting as writing was only just half the job since they also had to record later.

[Richard Penna 3,679]

I seem to remember the quote as '6 minutes of composing a day' at the busiest period, so I'm not sure the orchestration was part of that.

2 minutes of orchestrated music per day is a figure I've heard several composers mention - seems to be a magic number of sorts (Shore said it's mathematical).

But on the other hand, I've heard that TV is often scored at a rate of an episode (~40 mins) in less than a week. Is there something being sacrificed to write for that sort of timescale?

[Brónach 1,302]

Regarding TV, I remember Murray Gold saying he got used to writing episodes really really fast. The funny result is that some are just there while others are pretty much their own score.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Meaning?

[Brónach 1,302]

That I guess it does hurt TV scores to write that fast, although it's possible to do it.

One can find a reduced palette that works well like Gia on Lost and go with that.

[Incanus 5,714]

I seem to remember the quote as '6 minutes of composing a day' at the busiest period, so I'm not sure the orchestration was part of that.

2 minutes of orchestrated music per day is a figure I've heard several composers mention - seems to be a magic number of sorts (Shore said it's mathematical).

But on the other hand, I've heard that TV is often scored at a rate of an episode (~40 mins) in less than a week. Is there something being sacrificed to write for that sort of timescale?

Actually the point in the documentary was that it was completely orchestrated music as Shore was doing it all himself so it was extremely exhausting. And what else would writing for an orchestra be if not orchestration in large part? We should not confuse orchestration with the normal duties of the film scoring staff like copyists or assistants, who handle the actual physical work of distributing and photocopying the written music to the players. They are not adding anything to the music, they facilitate the physical labour of creating so much paper (=sheet music) and getting it ready on time for the musicians to perform.

For some reason the use of orchestrators (or any scoring staff at all) seems all of a sudden to cast huge shadows and doubts over a film composer's skill and ability to produce his music by himself independently. As Maurizio said it is non-news really that orchestrators are part of most regular film productions since their work is to help the composer to finish on time and not impose their voice on the music they are hired to assist with. I would imagine that a master orchestrator gets to know the voice of the composer through his music, makes note of their preferences and choices, take notes from the composer and then works under those instructions and writes out the music accordingly, turning condensed sketches into full scores. For some reason this has suddenly become some sort of cheat and "ghost writing" process when it is not. I'll give you that through the history of Hollywood there has always been the more underhanded ghostwriting happening but that we should maliciously and cynically expect it to be the norm among people like Shore or Williams and speculate about it earnestly or in jest is just ridiculous.

I suppose some people will soon consider using an orchestra to record the score a form of artistic cheating, letting other people interpret the music instead of the composer performing it all himself.

[Ollie 1,059]

*still can't work out why everyone hates Finn's song so much*

(come on..... ok, I could do without the chanting, but we've all heard worse. I also like the extended ending.)

I like it.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

But on the other hand, I've heard that TV is often scored at a rate of an episode (~40 mins) in less than a week. Is there something being sacrificed to write for that sort of timescale?

TV scores are generally 20 to 25 minutes long, and consists mainly of short cues (2 minutes, in general). Yeah, that's still a lot for a week, but you have to take into account that there aren't generally big 8-minute long action sequences or things like that in TV episodes that are exhausting to write.

[Incanus 5,714]

But on the other hand, I've heard that TV is often scored at a rate of an episode (~40 mins) in less than a week. Is there something being sacrificed to write for that sort of timescale?

TV scores are generally 20 to 25 minutes long, and consists mainly of short cues (2 minutes, in general). Yeah, that's still a lot for a week, but you have to take into account that there aren't generally big 8-minute long action sequences or things like that in TV episodes that are exhausting to write.

I think there is also less time for post-production tinkering or major rewrites on TV-shows.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

That too.

[Matt C 452]

I don't see what the fuss is about Shore hiring Conrad Pope and Clifford Tasner to orchestrate his DOS and TaBA scores. Maybe we can have a score album that corroborates with the music that makes it into the film.

[Faleel 5,345]

or perhaps the first LOTR related sessions leak!

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[BloodBoal 7,538]

PJ will probably ask Shore to use the Company's theme. Or he'll just track a statement of that theme.

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[Faleel 5,345]

All the more reason for them to do it.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[gkgyver 1,645]

He already said it, the Ring theme was magical for the Argonath, so PJ wil simply ask for a rerecording of that cue.

[Incanus 5,714]

A bit pessimistic Georg?

I think the simple ascending majesty of the Erebor Theme would be magnificent for that shot. Really depends on how this shot will be used in the storytelling.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Incanus 5,714]

I don't think it will be a really glorious rendition of a theme, though, since there is danger ahead (ya know, the dragon). I think we can expect something similar to the rendition of Erebor's theme heard at the end of A Good Omen.

Yeah. Thorin's Theme and Erebor Theme both carry a bit weary or stoic cast to them so they would be pretty obvious choices as they could well illustrate journey yet not over play heroism at such grim and dangerous moment.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[crocodile 7,999]

Or Conrad Pope can do it. Give Howard a weekend off.

Karol

[Incanus 5,714]

Or Conrad Pope can do it. Give Howard a weekend off.

Karol

Oh don't you start that again Karol!

[gkgyver 1,645]

I'm sure Pope will add a boom-tzzz.

[KK 3,307]

Oooh, boom-tzzes in Middle-Earth? Nice. Can't wait for the glock runs too!

[crocodile 7,999]

I want John Williams piccolos and xylophone all over everything!

Karol

[Faleel 5,345]

Gkgyver will oficially start worrying, now that you posted that Karo.

[Incanus 5,714]

Some people are under the misapprehension that having Pope orchestrate means the same as "I'll have two large scoops of bmmmtzzzz and a sprinkle of xylophones and woodwind runs on top".

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Incanus 5,714]

When it obvious it actually means the score will sound like Desplat's music.

Light and fluffy as cotton candy and bunny rabbit tails?

[Brónach 1,302]

When it obvious it actually means the score will sound like Desplat's music.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CibExazgMug

Light and fluffy as cotton candy and bunny rabbit tails?

[Luke Skywalker 1,794]

I want a circle of Boom--tzz!

[Brónach 1,302]

I want a circle of Boom--tzz!

Bam, badubadum, (tzzzzzzzzzzzz) bababadubadum, badubadum, babadum-tzzzzzzzzzz!

(pause)

BADUBADUM-TZZZZZZZ!

[Incanus 5,714]

I want a circle of Boom--tzz!

Bam, badubadum, (tzzzzzzzzzzzz) bababadubadum, badubadum, babadum-tzzzzzzzzzz!

(pause)

BADUBADUM-TZZZZZZZ!

Hey that sounds like Khuzdûl!

[Brónach 1,302]

That would be an improvement.

[Incanus 5,714]

That would be an improvement.

I trust David Salo and his extrapolations on the language.

[Brónach 1,302]

It's going to sound like Akkadian.

Awîlam shuâti abâka isbatû. Ana shepi sharrim bêlîya amqut. Enlil bêlum rabûm nakram ina mâtim itrud.

[Jonesy 55]

Apparently, The Desolation Of Smaug score will be recorded in New Zealand.

http://i.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/8908885/NZSO-hits-high-note-with-Hobbit-sequel

[crocodile 7,999]

Interesting. I wonder whether this means some portions or the whole thing?

I'll miss LPO.

Karol

[Jay 37,336]

Wellington Town Hall? Cool!

I guess the Edge Of The Wild will be re-recorded too then

[Barnald 365]

Does this provide further proof that all was not well with the scoring process for AUJ, and that things are being done to rectify the hectic the problems (orchestrators, and now recording in New Zealand). Hopefully it will result in better co-operation between Jackson and Shore.

I doubt it's a slight on the LPO, and I can't see why Shore would be unhappy with them after doing the vast majority of his Middle-Earth music with them.

[crocodile 7,999]

Who knows? It might be a practical decision, maybe they couldn't book a venue in London or something and recording things in Wellington gives them more flexibility? Maybe they simply want to promote NZ musicians?

Karol

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Maybe that's because that way, it will be easier for Shore and Plan 9 to collaborate on the score.

[Incanus 5,714]

Who knows? It might be a practical decision, maybe they couldn't book a venue in London or something and recording things in Wellington gives them more flexibility? Maybe they simply want to promote NZ musicians?

Karol

I guess whole being half a world away for the recording of the soundtrack in the busy post production period was finally thought impractical by both Shore and PJ. I understand that PJ wants to move the music production closer to home to facilitate the process. I just hope NZ symphony can hold their own in the face of LPO's superlative performance on the previous scores. As Karol said I too will miss LPO on this one.

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[Jay 37,336]

Yup the Moria music was indeed recorded by the NZSO, as a special preview was put together month's before FOTR's release, and the preview was the Mines of Moria sequence. The original version of the finale cue was also recorded by the NZSO and appears under the fan club credits of the EE, while the final version recorded by the LPO was used in the final film and on the OST/CR.

[KK 3,307]

Different orchestra, different orchestrators? Why all this change?

Shore himself says he always writes with the LPO in mind. I really hope the NZO can match their performances. You don't often get the warmth in sound that the LPO is so good at delivering, or their killer brass section. The spirit of their performances especially defines the sound of Middle-Earth.

The LPO will be missed

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Well, for people who are suckers for continuity (that includes me), it sure ain't a great piece of news... Bah!