25 replies to this topic

[ins]

Yesterday my friends and I watched the Fellowship again and after the credits rolled down we went for some talking and let the music play. Suddently I realised: hey, this 3 seconds of music I do not know. It's at ~1:39:14 on Disc 2. Has this been discussed before and why it's missing on the score? This 3 seconds (an alternate ending) are from Track 3 "Bag End" the Shire theme. Somebody noticed this too? Something else missing on the complete recordings?

[Mark Olivarez]

3 Seconds!?!?!?!?

3+ hours of music and three seconds stand out.

[ins]

I know I know, but it's sooo beautifull And the more important question is: is there more?

[crocodile]

Of course it's not complete. Why else would they call it COMPLETE RECORDINGS

Karol, who thinks that with TTT there will be even more omissions.

[GoodMusician]

Well, like any release, it's gone through changes. Look at the the album version of "Concearning Hobits"... these are two different recordings of the same cue... but notice that we only get one on the album?

Personally... I don't trust anything that says complete because it willnot have every pass of every cue ever recorded... That's what Complete means to me. but that's unreasonable lol

But again...are you sure it wasn't tracked in?

[Trent Bennett]

Oh my god...complaining about 3 seconds of music? The world is coming to an end!!!! :roll:

[Quint]

That album is the best ost I own, I'm more than pleased with it. I just wish they had included the Shire arrangement as heard in the fan credits. There's a quirky little moment with the solo fiddle(?) that I love! Shame I ain't got it

[GoodMusician]

Vosk...drop the attitude...there's no point.

The point is that it represents something... it says that It isn't complete... or that some creative choice was made NOT to include them...and the question is asked "why?" If they go all out to present it the way they have, why not include it?..

[ins]

I know 3 seconds is nothing to complain about. But it's working quite good in the credits and thus: why not use it? If you get the money to produce such an amazing presentation of the score and put so much care into getting all the music used in the motion picture, why stop at the credits? Looking at most JW OST CD's we get those credits stuff with mostly no new content just repeating the already presented music on the disc in another way of editing.
To make things clear: I am not bashing the representation of the recordings we got this far. No, I am amazed like most people out here how good it was done but maybe there is more content missing then I am aware of? Just a simple question if someone noticed the same

[Trent Bennett]

Vosk...drop the attitude...there's no point.

I was being fucking sarcastic, hence the rolling eye emoticon added at the end. So shut the hell up.

[robthehand]

Vosk...drop the attitude...there's no point.

I was being fucking sarcastic, hence the rolling eye emoticon added at the end. So shut the hell up.

Stop the personal attacks please Vosk, they're completely unnecessary. Just because you're not interested doesn't mean you have to try to bring any discussion to a halt. I hate to be so blunt, but what's the point in posting a reply if you haven't got anything to say?

As for those few second edits here and there, yes they do exist but they don't bother me a lot. I think most of them were good decisions, and improve the flow of the score as a whole. That said, I haven't listened to the end credits in any detail on the DVD, so I'm not sure exactly what I'm missing. I noticed a few passages that seem shorter on the CE (I think some of the Isengard scenes, for example), but I think the film versions would have been a little too repetitive.

Still, it's one of the best CD re-issues ever (whatever you think of the music, you can't deny that the presentation is excellent), and I'm willing to forgive the odd few-second cut if it means we get more releases like this.

[Mr. Breathmask]

Vosk...drop the attitude...there's no point.

I was being fucking sarcastic, hence the rolling eye emoticon added at the end. So shut the hell up.

Stop the personal attacks please Vosk, they're completely unnecessary. Just because you're not interested doesn't mean you have to try to bring any discussion to a halt. I hate to be so blunt, but what's the point in posting a reply if you haven't got anything to say?

Indeed. "Shut the hell up" is the last thing I want to see people saying to each other around here like that.

I don't mind that there's 3 seconds missing. And before this set came out, Doug Adams already mentioned they took out some minor sections (we're talking bars here) or changed some of the mixing (like the nearly choir-less departure of the Ringwraiths), all under the supervision and approval of Howard Shore himself.

- Marc

[Mark Olivarez]

Man some people have anger issues.


Marc is correct, Shore did make some minor adjustments to the cues. Plus these scores are meant to represent the expanded versions of the films so there are and may be some differences when compared to the original CDs and films.

[Jim Ware]

I know 3 seconds is nothing to complain about. But it's working quite good in the credits and thus: why not use it?

It's on the complete recordings.

(The only difference is that this piece crossfades into In Dreams slightly earlier on the Complete Recordings than it does in the film).

Karol, who thinks that with TTT there will be even more omissions.

Keep your original album for the alternate Shadowfax cue, amongst others.

Plus these scores are meant to represent the expanded versions of the films so there are and may be some differences when compared to the original CDs and films.

The Complete Recordings are intended to represent the ultimate and final version of each film's score as conceived and written by Howard Shore. Essentially, this means the score from the EE, minus any music editing or looping and with unused cues restored to their original locations where appropriate.

There are assembly issues with in the Fellowship CR which contradict this statement slightly. There are at least two other issues with the final track which are considerably more annoying (to me) than a slightly adjusted crossfade.

[Red Rabbit]

No matter how insignificant the 3 seconds are, it still means that the complete recordings are not actually complete. Be thankful that it isn't missing more. I just don't if I could handle it if I found out that it was missing 4 seconds.

[Mark Olivarez]

Yes my world would come to a crashing halt.

[Red Rabbit]

I might kill myself if it's missing five.

[Mark Olivarez]

That would be the end of the world.

[John Crichton]

Just imagine if there was six seconds missing. Planets spinning out of orbit, suns imploding, cats and dogs living together. Wouldn't be pretty.

[Mark Olivarez]

Be careful you're approaching the dreaded 10 second mark.....


Not even God could save us from that.

[John Crichton]

Any more than that and the universe never existed in the first place.

[Mark Olivarez]

Except for Texas...

[king mark]

Well,all I care about is that 5 seconds is missing from the end of Anakin's Dark Deeds.

I'd probably die of boredom before I made it through a LotR complete recordings.

K.M.

[Incanus]

The Complete Recordings is a somewhat misleading title as to some it suggests that we would be getting every take of every piece ever recorded for the LotR scores (there are about 3000 in all if I remember correctly).Maybe they should have called it the Complete Score Recordings in the first place to avoid the accusations of false advertising. The CR sets are a representation of the LotR scores as they are heard in the Exteneded Editions of the films. And Shore has wanted to make a more fluid and independent listening experience so he has made the slightest edits to the music to help this fact. There are no repetitions of one bar to make the timing in the film or lenghtened sustained string chord to make up for the time that Gandalf takes to come down the stairs.

These sets represent the way Shore wants the audience to hear the scores as independent music away from the film. Of course the music is forever tied to the action on the screen but Shore has tried to tell the story through music on these discs and in my opinion has done a superlative job. To stack a presentation of alternates in the end of the sets would just disrupt the flow of the music.


And the fact that should be remembered is that the Fan Credits are comprised of cues from the original OST and alternate takes on some of the cues from the film so they are not on the CR set. They have no place in there. The music was put there to avoid a 10 minutes of silence after the actual End Credits as the Fan Credits start to roll. The sets form a presentation of the scores as a whole. They do not present us with mountains of alternates for their own sake. Alternates and unused cues (which we are getting with these sets) are very interesting to hear to understand how the scores evolve but they should not become the main issue when a complete score is released and certainly not the major gripe they have become among fans. I love LotR music as much as the next avid fan and always like to hear more of it but to bemoan the lack of alternates or different takes in these sets is ridiculous and ungrateful. We have been presented the best complete score release in history and some still see fit to complain.

And also remember that there is a strong possibility that we get a "Rarities"disc on some later date (Doug Adams has hinted this on many occasions) which will probably have enough alternates to satify our monstrous hunger for them. There might be even some Theatrical version cues on that disc. So I think we are in a pretty good situation as LotR music fans

[Damo]

That was very well said Incanus!

[Richard Penna]

Really well said Mikko, good to have some sensible comments now and again

I do have a few mixing issues with the set, but these are massively overshadowed by the music product that we get, especially when compared to the TPM UE.

I had trouble sleeping the night before FotR was released - that's how much I was looking forward to getting this. I knew there would probably be some differences, but my main concern was that suddenly I had access to all the music that I heard in the film, in a way that the composer himself wanted it to be heard, and even now, I listen through and am amazed at the quality of the product and care with which it was prepared.

Roll on Two Towers