80 replies to this topic

[Blumenkohl]

I'm glad to see he's recording live orchestras now, but he's got so many synths going on top of it, it doesn't sound good at all. He needs some good engineer like Shawn Murphy

I was following you until the last quoted proper nouns, and the adjective tied to them.

[Mark Olivarez]

He needs some good engineer like Shawn Murphy to come in and clean up his recordings,

Good? Well, sometimes.

Who knows, Murphy's muddy mixing may drown some of the crap out of the music.

[John Crichton]

I don't know, you mix crap in mud all you get is messy crap.

[Jediwashington]

I'm glad to see he's recording live orchestras now, but he's got so many synths going on top of it, it doesn't sound good at all. He needs some good engineer like Shawn Murphy

I was following you until the last quoted proper nouns, and the adjective tied to them.

Well, he's not the classic Williams engineer Eric Tomlinson, but he's better than anyone else recording out there right now. I've been depressed by the amount of bad mixing in most scores, and he seems to be the least offensive of them all. 9 bets out of 10 the bad mixes are not from him recording improperly, but a sound effects editor getting to them before the finalization. Next to him is Dan Wallin, who I feel isolates too much and makes the performance less blended. Murphy uses a simple decca tree and 3 Neumann M50's with schoeps wings and that's about it besides some section and solo mics. Any mix he's had complete control of I don't find offensive at all. The fact that he usually doesn't use Pro tools or other digital formats on most of his scores certainly makes me smile.

I understand he's not perfect, but certainly he could mix a Zimmer score a little better than Alan Meyerson does.

~JW

[Blumenkohl]

but he's better than anyone else recording out there right now.

Better than Bruce Botnick? Nah.

[Damo]

Well the production for Pirates of the Caribbean: At world's End has been in Post Production for a long time which probably explains that Zimmer had more spare time on his hands to come up with a great score of his own compared to amout of time Zimmer and Badelt had in the first two scores I guess. This sample clips on soundtrack.net does sound promising as it already been mentioned.

[Mr. Breathmask]

Also, imagine if the first one had been all out symphonic bombast (not the final score was ideal, but still). Where would you go from there?

[Mark Olivarez]

I can only dream of what might have been if Silvestri had stayed and gone symphonic ala The Mummy Returns.

[Morlock]

While I'd love that, and the first score is an almost complete write-off in my book, I am very happy with the second score, and the third sounds promising.
But while there are some high profile rejected scores which I understand their rejection (2001, Mission:Impossible, Air Force One, Troy), I've heard no justification what so ever for Silvestri's rejection (other than the criminal offence of being a non-MV composer on a Bruckheimer film. Every single film of his since 1990 fits that bill, and before that most of his films were scored by Harold Faltermeyer, a mentor and role-model for several MV composers).

[*ABC*]

Every single film of his since 1990 fits that bill

That's not correct. National Treasure, Bad Company, Armageddon, Remember the Titans, ... were scored by Trevor Rabin, who isn't and was never a member of Hans Zimmer's Remote Control studios.

[Mark Olivarez]

But Rabin's music is very similar to Zimmer's stable of composers.

[robthehand]

Only blander.

[Morlock]

Every single film of his since 1990 fits that bill

That's not correct. National Treasure, Bad Company, Armageddon, Remember the Titans, ... were scored by Trevor Rabin, who isn't and was never a member of Hans Zimmer's Remote Control studios.

Technically he isn't, but he is a friend of Zimmer's, has composed in the MV system and with MV composers, and certainly has an MV sensibility.

[Blumenkohl]

A Van Helsing style Silvestri score for PoTC would rock.

[Morlock]

What? All that noise? With all due respect to the Van Helsing score (And I am a big fan of it), it could not possibly work in a half-way decent film (which Van Helsing decidedly was not). Only in a film as terrible as Van Helsing would such a propesterously loud and fun score work.

[John Crichton]

but he's better than anyone else recording out there right now.

Better than Bruce Botnick? Nah.

Ah, finally, something we agree on.

[Blumenkohl]

but he's better than anyone else recording out there right now.

Better than Bruce Botnick? Nah.

Ah, finally, something we agree on.

It's not my fault you usually have ridiculous views.

half-way decent film

Eh that's a stretch, it's the tired plot of the original Star Wars trilogy applied to the seas. Guy and rebellious smuggler type guy rescue high-class lady, come next movie, everything goes bad and the smuggler type goes missing and it's up to everyone else to rescue him. PotC is 70% popcorn, 30% Johnny Depp. The only superiority it has to VH the movie is Jack Sparrow and his entrances.

[bondo]

But Rabin's music is very similar to Zimmer's stable of composers.

I guess so.... if you're totally unfamiliar with Rabin's work and the MediaVentures' people's works, and have no way of picking out a composer's "sound". Sure, yeah

[Morlock]

Bullshit. I know MV and I know Rabin, and the basic stereotypical sound is the same.

[Mark Olivarez]

Morlock beat me to it but I agree.


Which is a shame because I've seen a recording session and heard some of Rabin's music with just the orchestra and it's actually decent and doesn't require a bunch of crappy synth overlay.

[Morlock]

Indeed. I am far more lenient on synths than many others here, but I do know that so many scores are cheapened by unnecessary synths.

[robthehand]

I've got no problem with synths when they're used as an instrument in their own right. I just don't like it much when synths double up for other instruments, or are just used as "noise" to make the music louder.

[Morlock]

I have no set rules...but often I hear synths and think 'Why on earth could this not be done live?'. I have very little respect for Randy Edelman because of that. Many great tunes, some terrifc film music there. But so many of them are cheapened by the synths. As good as Gettysburg or Dragonheart are, the synths bother me every time. I'm happy that many MV composers, Zimmer included, are using synths far more sparingly than they used to.

[Alexcremers]

Synths rule! Samples suck (unless it's meant to sound samply).

[Blumenkohl]

The sample sound sounds fantastic on a good speaker rig.

[Mr. Breathmask]

So does a live orchestra.

[Blumenkohl]

So does a live orchestra.

But the highs and mids in live orchestras can get very tiring very fast on the ears, which is why I think a lot of the louder sampled music should stick to being sampled.  

[bondo]

Bullshit. I know MV and I know Rabin, and the basic stereotypical sound is the same.

As long as you acknowledge the difference between "I don't like their sound" and "they all sound alike," then we're in agreement.

[Morlock]

I do like their sound, and, in a lot of things, they all sound alike.

Morlock- who has a well-established record as an MV-apologist.

[Mark Olivarez]

Morlock- who has a well-established record as an MV-apologist.

Yes.

[Morlock]

AND I'M DAMN PROUD OF IT!!!

[Neimoidian]

I have no set rules...but often I hear synths and think 'Why on earth could this not be done live?'. I have very little respect for Randy Edelman because of that. Many great tunes, some terrifc film music there. But so many of them are cheapened by the synths. As good as Gettysburg or Dragonheart are, the synths bother me every time. I'm happy that many MV composers, Zimmer included, are using synths far more sparingly than they used to.

Is "Dragonheart" that replete with synths? I listened to it a few days ago and don't remember any (maybe I didn't pay much attention to it). On the other hand "Gettysburg" is indeed fully performed on synths. But it is still a decent score.

I personally don't enjoy Craig Armstrong's approach to synths. I bought myself his "Film Works 1995-2005" cd and noticed he often uses that kind of electronic percussion that is appropriate for pop songs only, but not the choral piece for example (see "Escape" from "Pluncket and MacLeane"). If the track is composed in a pop song manner (see "This Love" from "Cruel Intentions" performed bautifully by Elisabeth Fraser) it doesn't bother me much, but when I listen to a choral piece, it really annoys me.

[Morlock]

Is "Dragonheart" that replete with synths? I listened to it a few days ago and don't remember any (maybe I didn't pay much attention to it).

Oh, it sounds incredibly synthetic to me.

[Trent Bennett]

I'll take live orchestra over synth any day...

[king mark]

Is "Dragonheart" that replete with synths? I listened to it a few days ago and don't remember any (maybe I didn't pay much attention to it).

Oh, it sounds incredibly synthetic to me.

I remember that beeing a turn off for that perticular score.

But MV composers turning there bland,noisy and incoherent style to more orchestral scores isn't much better.I just listened to John Powell's X-Men 3 and I wasn't too impressed.Same thing with Narnia...etc...

[Morlock]

Well, X3 is bit of a mess, but it's got 3 terrific themes to ground it. Action music is good. Narnia I never liked. Kingdom of Heaven and Sinbad...those are real scores.

[Mr. Breathmask]

X3 is awesome. And it's miles and miles removed from MV stuff like The Rock, Crimson Tide or Backdraft.

[Mark Olivarez]

Which isn't that difficult to accomplish.



Personally I enjoyed Chicken Run and Shrek, even with the Deep Blue Sea theft.


Powell's absence is really felt in Shrek 2.

[Mr. Breathmask]

I haven't heard the Shrek scores outside of the films, but I was listening to Chicken Run again the other day and couldn't get over how excellent it was. It's a really cool score.

[Mark Olivarez]

Shrek is fun because it also includes some of the little fun songs from the film. The second one seems to lack the energy the first score has.