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#3121 Alexcremers

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 03:00 PM

And that's one of the problems. Not only it doesn't drive the point home that strongly to start with,


1) Ambiguity is not a problem, but a plus. People can decide for themselves. It's not pushed down the throat or handed on a silver platter. 2) It's not the point of the movie.

It's horses for courses, really. I have now seen all 5 versions of "BR", and the only version I don't watch is the Denver/Dalas preview version. It's the equivalent of listening to demos. No.


I agree. Never watched it even though I'm probably the world's biggest fan of the film.
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#3122 Stefancos

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 03:02 PM

You like having DECKART IS A REPLICANT! in big letters in the film?

The Final Cut gives the viewer less chance to make up their own minds.

Not saying I'm a fan of the happy ending of the original cut though.

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#3123 Chaac

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 03:04 PM

I'm afraid ambiguity and anticlimaxes don't make me cry. I am touched by cold hard truths, even if they're fiction.

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#3124 Alexcremers

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 03:12 PM

Personally, I don't like it when it's spelled out. And Deckard being a replicant or not is not even in the script, so I wouldn't call it 'what Blade Runner is about'. In fact, most people think BR is about 'what it means to be human'. Deckard being a rep goes right against that.
Pictures, visual images, are far better to achieve that end than any words, particularly now, when the world has lost all mystery and magic and speech has become mere chatter, empty of meaning - Andrei Tarkovsky

#3125 Chaac

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 03:18 PM

And Deckard being a replicant or not is not even in the script, so I wouldn't call it 'what Blade Runner is about'.


1) Who cares about the script at this point?
2) I'm not saying Blade Runner is about Deckard being or not a replicant. I think Deckard being a replicant is the narrative mechanism that states what Blade Runner is about.

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#3126 Stefancos

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 03:29 PM

The most interesting thing about this issue is the juxtaposition between Scott, who considered Deckard a Replicant and Ford, who considered him, and played him as human.

The Final Cut stacks the deck in Scott's favor.

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#3127 Jason LeBlanc

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 03:32 PM

The theatrical cut is underrated.
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#3128 Chaac

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 03:33 PM

Ford played him as a human... and that would be the point.

In the end, what an actor is thinking inside is irrelevant! The director makes it be anything if he's good enough.

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#3129 Stefancos

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 03:35 PM

The theatrical cut is underrated.


And since you can't buy it separately it will remain underrated.

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#3130 Alexcremers

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 03:37 PM

1) Who cares about the script at this point?
2) I'm not saying Blade Runner is about Deckard being or not a replicant. I think Deckard being a replicant is the narrative mechanism that states what Blade Runner is about.



1) If the issue is not in the script then how can it be what the film is about? Also, you are ignoring that the very issue is said to go against the actual theme of the film, namely, what it means to be human.

2) I don't know what you mean.
Pictures, visual images, are far better to achieve that end than any words, particularly now, when the world has lost all mystery and magic and speech has become mere chatter, empty of meaning - Andrei Tarkovsky

#3131 Jason LeBlanc

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 03:37 PM

yea I didn't follow what he was trying to say either
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#3132 Quint

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 04:12 PM

Deckard is a Cylon, end of.

#3133 Alexcremers

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 07:24 AM

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http://bluray.highde...avens_gate.html


Now Koray will have no other choice but to love it. ;)
Pictures, visual images, are far better to achieve that end than any words, particularly now, when the world has lost all mystery and magic and speech has become mere chatter, empty of meaning - Andrei Tarkovsky

#3134 Koray Savas

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 01:20 PM

Roshomon and Godard's Weekend for me.

In 50 years Herrmann will be forgotten.


#3135 Wojo

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 02:34 PM

2) I'm not saying Blade Runner is about Deckard being or not a replicant. I think Deckard being a replicant is the narrative mechanism that states what Blade Runner is about.


I don't follow either. Lemme translate it into other context.

I'm not saying Star Wars is about Luke Skywalker being or not a Jedi. I think Luke Skywalker being a Jedi is the narrative mechanism that states what Star Wars is about.

Hmmm. But that was never in question.

I'm not saying Revenge of the Sith is about Palpatine being or not a Sith Lord. I think Palpatine being a Sith Lord is the narrative mechanism that states what Revenge of the Sith is about.

Whoa.

I still don't get it.

@Wojo: stop being facetious.


#3136 Joey

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 03:06 PM

sometimes a shark is just a shark,
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"You're not John Conner, I saw you die, said Kyle". "I was only injured, replied John". "No, your injuries were too severe, you died. Look at you, where are your injuries? You're, you're a Terminator." "Kyle, its still me, yes my body was beyond repair, but my essence is here." He points to his head. "No John". Kyle raised his pulse rifle and aimed it at John but before he could fire, John fired first. Knocked to the ground Kyle looked up at the Terminator in the form of the man he once idolized. All hope was lost. "If you kill me how will you ever be born?" "Thats a good question Kyle, all this time we've focus on Sarah, on John, when had we known the it was you we should have targeted all along." John pointed his rifle at Kyle's face. "The resistance is finished, the battle is won. We the machines are the victors, salvation is ours." Kyle never heard the second shot.

#3137 Chaac

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 04:57 PM


2) I'm not saying Blade Runner is about Deckard being or not a replicant. I think Deckard being a replicant is the narrative mechanism that states what Blade Runner is about.


I don't follow either. Lemme translate it into other context.

I'm not saying Star Wars is about Luke Skywalker being or not a Jedi. I think Luke Skywalker being a Jedi is the narrative mechanism that states what Star Wars is about.

Hmmm. But that was never in question.

I'm not saying Revenge of the Sith is about Palpatine being or not a Sith Lord. I think Palpatine being a Sith Lord is the narrative mechanism that states what Revenge of the Sith is about.

Whoa.

I still don't get it.


Alexcremers thinks of it as twist for plot sake with the intention to surprise lowly audience who want plot. (This is probably not true, but a general representation of many of his thoughts here.)

But it's the way to express more strongly that the replicants and the humans are essentially the same (which has a lot of implications). That's a cool way of doing it, and not Deckard's lazy evident narration at Batty's death.

So we get to the point where Alex is wrong. Deckard being a replicant doesn't go against the theme of the film. Deckard, who believes to be human (like the audience) by default, yet isn't, is the theme of what it means to be human.

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#3138 Alexcremers

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 05:15 PM

Alexcremers thinks of it as twist for plot sake with the intention to surprise lowly audience who want plot.


I never said this. In fact, we were talking about 'subtle and ambiguous' versus 'explicit and obvious'. Your standpoint is that the former is not a virtue but a problem but you failed to explain why. It's called 'chaacing'. You do it all the time. If I said it's black, you would say it's white. If I said it's white, you would say it's black.

In any case, I've never heard someone say that they actually like it when things are spelled out to him. I believe Hampton Fancher, the writer, once said, "It's the question that is interesting, the answer itself is boring". I can identify with that. 'Ambiguity' means 'multiple possibities', which leads to a more layered and rich experience. The questions in Blade Runner were probably the reason why it became one of my favorite movies. What makes this movie great and timeless is the endless stream of ideas, thoughts and emotions people are extracting from the mood and atmosphere. On the surface, it's a simple story, but underneath it lies a vast world of allegory and metaphor. Blade Runner dropped these ideas like land mines all over the movie and left them there for the viewer to step upon, to ponder about. It took me several viewings before I even picked up the 'Deckard might be a replicant' suggestion. It thrilled me to no end that I had discovered it on my own. A new perspective was born. Needless to say I was shocked when I saw the DC in 1992. The subtle suggestion was replaced with a blunt statement that required nothing from the viewer at all.

And about the narration, I often have the feeling people are just saying they hate it because they heard it's the right thing to do. It's a simple story and unless you happen to think that "Sushi, that's how my ex-wife called me" is exposition, the voiceover doesn't add or detract that much. What the voiceover does do is give the film a different vibe. The narration adds to the Film Noir atmosphere. The text itself is only a part of the story. And while the story certainly holds everything together, it's the storytelling itself, the imagery, the palpable mood, the strong atmosphere and the many underlying themes and questions that makes Blade Runner. 'Explicitness' (that what you want) only works against that.

The funny thing is that you are commenting on a version of a film that you didn't see.
Pictures, visual images, are far better to achieve that end than any words, particularly now, when the world has lost all mystery and magic and speech has become mere chatter, empty of meaning - Andrei Tarkovsky

#3139 Joey

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 05:19 PM

according to bluray.com forums Walmart has a 6.00 blu ray display in addition to the 7.88 bluray display. I want to find From Hell with Johnny Depp. Never seen it but have heard good things.
OH God, Joe is posting again, someone hand me my pills!

"You're not John Conner, I saw you die, said Kyle". "I was only injured, replied John". "No, your injuries were too severe, you died. Look at you, where are your injuries? You're, you're a Terminator." "Kyle, its still me, yes my body was beyond repair, but my essence is here." He points to his head. "No John". Kyle raised his pulse rifle and aimed it at John but before he could fire, John fired first. Knocked to the ground Kyle looked up at the Terminator in the form of the man he once idolized. All hope was lost. "If you kill me how will you ever be born?" "Thats a good question Kyle, all this time we've focus on Sarah, on John, when had we known the it was you we should have targeted all along." John pointed his rifle at Kyle's face. "The resistance is finished, the battle is won. We the machines are the victors, salvation is ours." Kyle never heard the second shot.

#3140 Miles Prower

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 05:45 PM

And blu-ray.com is right. Found Clerks there. :-)
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#3141 Koray Savas

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 04:56 PM

according to bluray.com forums Walmart has a 6.00 blu ray display in addition to the 7.88 bluray display. I want to find From Hell with Johnny Depp. Never seen it but have heard good things.


I remember liking it back when it came out but don't think I've seen it since. I think it was a bit stylized in cinematography. Ian Holm is great.

In 50 years Herrmann will be forgotten.


#3142 Marian Schedenig

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 06:21 PM

As far as I remember, it was ok, but not really more than that. I think the music was nice, and as Koray said, Holm was great (as usual).

#3143 Jason LeBlanc

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 09:36 PM

If you've never seen it why wouldn't you just rent it instead of buying it blind?
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#3144 Joey

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 10:21 PM

If you've never seen it why wouldn't you just rent it instead of buying it blind?

because rental options consist of Redbox and they do not carry it.

that's why I ask a lot of questions and research a movie before I make a blind purchase. Most of my blind purchases have been successful.

then there are the notorious failures like Friday Night Lights, and Saw.
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"You're not John Conner, I saw you die, said Kyle". "I was only injured, replied John". "No, your injuries were too severe, you died. Look at you, where are your injuries? You're, you're a Terminator." "Kyle, its still me, yes my body was beyond repair, but my essence is here." He points to his head. "No John". Kyle raised his pulse rifle and aimed it at John but before he could fire, John fired first. Knocked to the ground Kyle looked up at the Terminator in the form of the man he once idolized. All hope was lost. "If you kill me how will you ever be born?" "Thats a good question Kyle, all this time we've focus on Sarah, on John, when had we known the it was you we should have targeted all along." John pointed his rifle at Kyle's face. "The resistance is finished, the battle is won. We the machines are the victors, salvation is ours." Kyle never heard the second shot.

#3145 indy4

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 11:16 PM

It's not really a blind buy if you've researched it.
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#3146 Jason LeBlanc

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 02:31 AM

Netflix?
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#3147 Miles Prower

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 03:16 AM

There's nothing inherently wrong with blind buys. I got Once Upon A Time In The West on a friend's recommendation; ended up being a pretty decent idea.
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#3148 Joey

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 02:29 PM

Netflix?


for the cost of one month's netflix I could buy it,

and I have no desire to mess with netflix unless I like watching 3 second of show then 20 seconds of frozen picture and 6 seconds of show. Streaming isn't always great in rural areas
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"You're not John Conner, I saw you die, said Kyle". "I was only injured, replied John". "No, your injuries were too severe, you died. Look at you, where are your injuries? You're, you're a Terminator." "Kyle, its still me, yes my body was beyond repair, but my essence is here." He points to his head. "No John". Kyle raised his pulse rifle and aimed it at John but before he could fire, John fired first. Knocked to the ground Kyle looked up at the Terminator in the form of the man he once idolized. All hope was lost. "If you kill me how will you ever be born?" "Thats a good question Kyle, all this time we've focus on Sarah, on John, when had we known the it was you we should have targeted all along." John pointed his rifle at Kyle's face. "The resistance is finished, the battle is won. We the machines are the victors, salvation is ours." Kyle never heard the second shot.

#3149 Jason LeBlanc

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 02:48 PM

Oh god, i wasn't talking about streaming - netflix streaming sucks. I was talking about having them mail blu rays to you.

It's $10/month for all the blu rays you can watch
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#3150 Wojo

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 02:51 PM

Netflix's streaming selection is what sucks. Shows and movies disappear with little warning and less reason. If you have highspeed, the quality and convenience are perfectly acceptable. I've been able watch a good number of shows that I wouldn't watch again so I don't want to actually own them.

@Wojo: stop being facetious.


#3151 Jason LeBlanc

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 02:54 PM

Yes, the quality is fine on my internet connection, but the selection is god-awful. I cancelled it and went back to a disc-only plan
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#3152 Wojo

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 02:58 PM

I see.

@Wojo: stop being facetious.


#3153 Quint

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 04:48 PM

Netflix will eventually go into administration. It isn't a sustainable business so long as they struggle with licensing.

#3154 Jason LeBlanc

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 04:51 PM

I still love their disc service for the most part, but lately it's annoying because I'll see a film another way then only rent the disc to watch deleted scenes, etc.... but more and more discs you get from them are "rental version" discs that ONLY contain the movie.

It's a great way to get TV shows though. Can't wait to start re-watching Batman: TAS thanks to Netflix.
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#3155 Wojo

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 04:59 PM

Ooooh, I didn't even think to look for that one! I'll watch that after Firefly and Serenity.

@Wojo: stop being facetious.


#3156 Joey

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 03:35 PM

Best Buy will be exclusively carrying On Her Majesty's Secret Service, You Only Live Twice, and the Spy Who Loved Me.

Walmart has the exclusive rights to Octopussy, Diamonds are Forever, and Golden Eye, and Target has the rights to A View to a Kill, Tomorrow Never Dies, and the Living Daylights.

all available 10-02-12.
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"You're not John Conner, I saw you die, said Kyle". "I was only injured, replied John". "No, your injuries were too severe, you died. Look at you, where are your injuries? You're, you're a Terminator." "Kyle, its still me, yes my body was beyond repair, but my essence is here." He points to his head. "No John". Kyle raised his pulse rifle and aimed it at John but before he could fire, John fired first. Knocked to the ground Kyle looked up at the Terminator in the form of the man he once idolized. All hope was lost. "If you kill me how will you ever be born?" "Thats a good question Kyle, all this time we've focus on Sarah, on John, when had we known the it was you we should have targeted all along." John pointed his rifle at Kyle's face. "The resistance is finished, the battle is won. We the machines are the victors, salvation is ours." Kyle never heard the second shot.

#3157 Koray Savas

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 03:38 PM

Why not just get the awesome complete set?

In 50 years Herrmann will be forgotten.


#3158 Jason LeBlanc

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 03:41 PM

Yup. For $186 you get all 22 Bond films, that's $8.45 per movie. I don't get why anyone would do anything differently. Hell you can sell the ones you don't like for $15 each and come out way ahead if you want.
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#3159 Joey

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 03:48 PM

Why not just get the awesome complete set?

because I don't want the complete set and I don't want to pay that much, and who the fk wants the hassle of selling movies you purchased, I'm not a retailer or wholesaler.
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"You're not John Conner, I saw you die, said Kyle". "I was only injured, replied John". "No, your injuries were too severe, you died. Look at you, where are your injuries? You're, you're a Terminator." "Kyle, its still me, yes my body was beyond repair, but my essence is here." He points to his head. "No John". Kyle raised his pulse rifle and aimed it at John but before he could fire, John fired first. Knocked to the ground Kyle looked up at the Terminator in the form of the man he once idolized. All hope was lost. "If you kill me how will you ever be born?" "Thats a good question Kyle, all this time we've focus on Sarah, on John, when had we known the it was you we should have targeted all along." John pointed his rifle at Kyle's face. "The resistance is finished, the battle is won. We the machines are the victors, salvation is ours." Kyle never heard the second shot.

#3160 Jason LeBlanc

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 04:20 PM

The nine movies you mentioned will probably be sold in those stores for $20 each, which is $180 total. For $186 you can get all 22 films on amazon. I don't get the allure of buying them separately.
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