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#41 Datameister

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 01:04 AM

It's a lame title indeed. If I were naming it, I'd probably try to keep it down to two parts, since it'd be hard to sum up the action in one title. I'd probably keep "Carbon Freeze," since it's cool and descriptive and it happens to be the original cue title, which I like to preserve if it's good. Maybe...Carbon Freeze - It's a Trap! or Carbon Freeze - Vader's Trap.

#42 Nick Parker

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 01:29 AM

It's a lame title indeed. If I were naming it, I'd probably try to keep it down to two parts, since it'd be hard to sum up the action in one title.

I'd probably keep "Carbon Freeze," since it's cool and descriptive and it happens to be the original cue title


How do you know that?



Maybe...Carbon Freeze - It's a Trap!


No, it reminds too much of Admiral Ackbar from Star Wars Episode VI: The Return of the Jedi, and thusly, his cereal.

Carbon Freeze - Vader's Trap.


That one sounds pretty decent. What was the title on the original or Anthology release, assuming it is on those?
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#43 Datameister

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 01:35 AM

How do you know that?


Check your email. :D

No, it reminds too much of Admiral Ackbar from Star Wars Episode VI: The Return of the Jedi, and thusly, his cereal.


:) Yeah, it's not quite to my taste. Some people are addicted to quotes in the titles, though. (And I'm not sure what title it had on the Anthology release, if it was indeed on there.)

#44 Henry Buck

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 01:37 AM

Well, there actually is a Bespin motive that's most evident in "City in the Clouds" (after the landing). You can hear a little reprise in "Rescue from Cloud City" when Luke gets strung up on the weather vane. It's just a little descending brass figure.

#45 Nick Parker

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 01:39 AM

Indeed there is, Henry. It reminds me a little bit of Dracula, now that I think about it. It is very nice.
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#46 Datameister

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 01:50 AM

Ah, I know what you're talking about. Yeah, a nice little minor motif.

#47 indy4

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 02:28 AM

Irina's Theme is pretty fun to play, in my opinion.

EDIT: Oh, I misread your question. Well, my answer still stands!



There's a track on Elfman's Serenada Schizophrana, called "Improv for Alto Sax"

Ah, thanks guys! I can't believe I forgot "Irina's Theme."

Oh, and since we are on the subject: how lame is the title "Carbon Freeze/Darth Vader's Trap/ Departure of Boba Fett"?

Worst track titles are from the Ultimate Edition. Titles like "Darth Sidious Receives News of the Gungan Army."
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#48 Koray Savas

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 02:45 AM

Those are the type of track titles that are just short descriptions of what they score. They're the worst.
"Close Encounters to me is as good a piece of concert music as the 20th century has produced. Everybody fixates on... the Superman fanfare, or Star Wars - Main Theme, or the Raiders March. It's what happens after that, it's not the big popular hook where you go: 'My God John Williams is a genius.' Y'know it's the stuff which is maybe less hooky and less hummable, but is great art." - Hans Zimmer

#49 Taikomochi

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 02:50 AM

Maybe...Carbon Freeze - It's a Trap!


No, it reminds too much of Admiral Ackbar from Star Wars Episode VI: The Return of the Jedi, and thusly, his cereal.


Their taste buds can't withstand flavor of that magnitude!

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#50 Nick Parker

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 03:10 AM

Man, I loved that episode.
"The only difference between the saint and the sinner is that every saint has a past, and every sinner has a future."

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#51 Smeagol

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 06:21 PM

Hmm.. this might not be such a quick question but maybe someone can help.

I'm slowly starting to get hardware and software for my home recording studio, and am ready to start spending some money on more hardware. I already have some sample libraries (GPO and Stormdrum) and as well a couple of audio workstations (Adobe Audition, and should be receiving Cubase some time this week).

I am in general very illiterate in terms of the technology involved, I'm slowly learning through a lot of reading/research on the web, and the next thing I am reading everywhere that I should get is a sound card. So for those of you with a studio, could you explain me the advantages of buying one and what exactly it would be useful for? Perhaps the composers around here could give me a hand or point me in the right direction to find more info about this subject.

Thanks ;)

#52 Wojo

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 08:05 PM

I took the 1997 SE discs of SW and just hacked the last track of disc 1 apart, leaving me Binary Sunset (alternate) and a bunch of alternate main titles, called precisely by their takes. The two minutes of silence is not necessary. I just haven't converted them to MP3 and FLAC yet.

#53 Richard Penna

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 08:19 PM

Here's my first one:

In Independence Day, there's a point in the film where they are launching the final assault on the mothership and all those little ships come out and start blowing up all those vehicles and equipment on the tarmac at the base and everyone starts rushing inside. It's accompanied by what I remember as a very fast brass passage. Does someone who knows the boot well know if this part is on there, and which track if it is?

#54 Eblobulator

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Posted 22 March 2009 - 03:58 AM

Here's my first one:

In Independence Day, there's a point in the film where they are launching the final assault on the mothership and all those little ships come out and start blowing up all those vehicles and equipment on the tarmac at the base and everyone starts rushing inside. It's accompanied by what I remember as a very fast brass passage. Does someone who knows the boot well know if this part is on there, and which track if it is?


Unfortunately the film version of 'The Finale Battle' is not on the boot at all. I wish it was, it is an awesome piece and also too there was some tracking going on in that latter half.

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#55 Hedji

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Posted 24 March 2009 - 01:05 AM

Quick Question: While listening to Goldsmith's Alternates for The Enterprise, Leaving Drydock, and Spock's Arrival, I began to wonder just how this "B" theme that is prevalent in all three cues relates to the Main Title we all know and love. Did Goldsmith write these cues first and then revise them after settling on the Main Title? Or did he write the Main Title first and develop these cues afterwards? Anyone know the story? (They're all magnificent, by the way, and are far too grand to be hidden away in deep dark corners of the internet.)

#56 Nick Parker

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Posted 30 March 2009 - 03:48 AM

I once saw a very humorous picture of John Williams giving a "thumbs-up" signal, and I need to find it for a project, but alas, I cannot. Does anyone know what photograph I am referring to?
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#57 Koray Savas

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Posted 30 March 2009 - 03:56 AM

I know what you're talking about. I don't have it at hand though.
"Close Encounters to me is as good a piece of concert music as the 20th century has produced. Everybody fixates on... the Superman fanfare, or Star Wars - Main Theme, or the Raiders March. It's what happens after that, it's not the big popular hook where you go: 'My God John Williams is a genius.' Y'know it's the stuff which is maybe less hooky and less hummable, but is great art." - Hans Zimmer

#58 guest

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Posted 30 March 2009 - 03:56 AM

Yes I do.

#59 Datameister

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Posted 30 March 2009 - 03:57 AM

Posted Image

Not sure where I found it, but I saved it to my computer when I did. Guess it's a good thing I did!

#60 Nick Parker

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Posted 30 March 2009 - 04:00 AM

There we are! Thanks, Joe, my English project is now complete!
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#61 Delorean90

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Posted 30 March 2009 - 04:24 AM

Here's my first one:

In Independence Day, there's a point in the film where they are launching the final assault on the mothership and all those little ships come out and start blowing up all those vehicles and equipment on the tarmac at the base and everyone starts rushing inside. It's accompanied by what I remember as a very fast brass passage. Does someone who knows the boot well know if this part is on there, and which track if it is?


Unfortunately the film version of 'The Finale Battle' is not on the boot at all. I wish it was, it is an awesome piece and also too there was some tracking going on in that latter half.


Speaking of the final battle, does anyone have any idea as to how the end of "The Day We Fight Back" was supposed to fit onto the film? I think the grand statement of Cates' theme is a better and more appropriate piece of music for the overall scene, but the actual scene (the explosion of the ship and brief celebration) seems too long for this. Were they originally planning to have that scene shorter and the ending of the OST track (4:07-end) is the result of that scoring attempt, or what?

#62 guest

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Posted 30 March 2009 - 02:44 PM

I'm not a 100% sure but I believe the final battle was to be a tad bit shorter and completely different, as shown by that stupid bi-plane sequence originally filmed for Randy Quaid's demise.


Fortunately someone realized how silly that scene looked and re-did the final battle, extending the scene a bit. Arnold ended up re-scoring the sequence. If you watch the film it sounds like there is a bit of tracked/looped material in the final battle.

#63 Marian Schedenig

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Posted 30 March 2009 - 03:13 PM

Quick Question: While listening to Goldsmith's Alternates for The Enterprise, Leaving Drydock, and Spock's Arrival, I began to wonder just how this "B" theme that is prevalent in all three cues relates to the Main Title we all know and love. Did Goldsmith write these cues first and then revise them after settling on the Main Title? Or did he write the Main Title first and develop these cues afterwards? Anyone know the story? (They're all magnificent, by the way, and are far too grand to be hidden away in deep dark corners of the internet.)


From what I've read, it seems the alternates were written before Goldsmith came up with the "full" main theme very late in the process, and he then rewrote those cues to include it.

#64 Richard Penna

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Posted 31 March 2009 - 06:33 PM

On the subject of Goldsmith, I got hold of the R1 Mummy DVD, the one with the isolated score that plays during the languages menu.

My question is: does anyone know which vob file contains this stream? I'm close to ripping every file except the movie ones and I can't find it... I know you can record the audio through the line in, but I wasn't planning to do that.

#65 Luke Skywalker

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Posted 31 March 2009 - 07:46 PM

Not sure where I found it, but I saved it to my computer when I did. Guess it's a good thing I did!


thats a very funny foto :lol:

I hope Episode III is Called 'Revenge of the Sith'

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Posted 31 March 2009 - 07:46 PM

Marian is correct, Goldsmith composed those cues before he came up with a full theme. Robert Wise wasn't satisfied with them and the general consensus was that the cues were lacking a theme. So Goldsmith went back and came up with the theme and re-wrote the cues.

#67 Charlie Brigden

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Posted 31 March 2009 - 07:52 PM

"It sounds like sailing ships!"

Which is interesting considering how nautical Meyer went in the next one...
Repeat the JWFan pledge after me: 'I hereby recognise John Towner Williams' place in the world as the great composer there has ever been, and I therefore renounce the works of Rozsa, Korngold, Herrmann, Horner, Kamen, Giacchino (unless the prophecy is fulfilled and he becomes the heir to JTW) and Goldsmith, especially Goldsmith. I understand that if I ever refer to Jurassic Park as anything less than "a masterpiece sixty-five million years in the making" I will be resigned to living out my days at the Zimmershrine.'

#68 Wojo

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 11:45 PM

Can anybody recommend (or provide, yay) a good recording of "The Sinfonians" by Clifton Williams? We're playing it this summer in my community band, and I'd like to hear how the piccolo solo goes so I can play it better. Thanks!

#69 Hedji

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 11:12 AM

Marian is correct, Goldsmith composed those cues before he came up with a full theme. Robert Wise wasn't satisfied with them and the general consensus was that the cues were lacking a theme. So Goldsmith went back and came up with the theme and re-wrote the cues.



So interesting. Although the theme and revised cues are absolutely wonderful, the original cues' theme is quite soaring and feels very liberated and fee to roam. Hearing those alternates for the first time was definitely one of my "Oh My God" moments in film music enjoyment. So frustrating that this is not legitimately available.

#70 Nick Parker

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 06:19 PM

While listening to The Fury, I was reading the CD booklet and noticed that the film was based on a book. Which led me to this question:

Just how many novel adaptations did John Williams score?
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#71 Charlie Brigden

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 06:27 PM

Just how many novel adaptations did John Williams score?


Munich
War of the Worlds
Memoirs of a Geisha
Harry Potter
Minority Repor
Angela's Ashes
Seven Years In Tibet
Sleepers
Schindler's List
Jurassic Park
The Lost World
Hook
Empire of the Sun
Dracula
The Fury
Black Sunday
Jane Eyre
Family Plot
Jaws
The Eiger Sanction
The Cowboys
The Long Goodbye
Goodbye Mr Chips
The Reivers
Heidi

I probably missed a few.
Repeat the JWFan pledge after me: 'I hereby recognise John Towner Williams' place in the world as the great composer there has ever been, and I therefore renounce the works of Rozsa, Korngold, Herrmann, Horner, Kamen, Giacchino (unless the prophecy is fulfilled and he becomes the heir to JTW) and Goldsmith, especially Goldsmith. I understand that if I ever refer to Jurassic Park as anything less than "a masterpiece sixty-five million years in the making" I will be resigned to living out my days at the Zimmershrine.'

#72 Nick Parker

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 06:37 PM

You are correct, you did miss some. Catch Me If You Can was based on a book, and Minority Report and A.I. were based on short stories, I believe. I have a feeling that the list is still not complete....

I would not really consider Hook a novel adaptation, though.
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#73 Red

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 06:46 PM

A.I. is partly based on Pinocchio, but not on any specific short story that I'm aware of. Hook sort of counts.
Do you like John Williams? His early work was a little too jazzy for my taste, but when Jaws came out in '75 I really think he came into his own, commercially and artistically. The whole album has a clear, crisp sound, and an air of consummate professionalism that really gives the pieces a big boost. He's been compared to Jerry Goldsmith but I think John has a far more leitmotif-driven style of composing. In '82 John composed this, E.T., his most accomplished album to date. I think his undisputed masterpiece is "The Magic of Halloween", a theme so catchy most people don't listen to what it means. But they should, because it's not just about the pleasures of childhood and the importance of friendship, it's also a personal statement about the man himself. Hey Paul!
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#74 Charlie Brigden

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 06:48 PM

AI is based on a Brian Aldiss short story called 'Supertoys Last All Summer Long' or something along those lines.

I think you're right Nick, Minority Report was a short story rather than a novel. But it's still, well, an adaptation. Then again, so is Superman.
Repeat the JWFan pledge after me: 'I hereby recognise John Towner Williams' place in the world as the great composer there has ever been, and I therefore renounce the works of Rozsa, Korngold, Herrmann, Horner, Kamen, Giacchino (unless the prophecy is fulfilled and he becomes the heir to JTW) and Goldsmith, especially Goldsmith. I understand that if I ever refer to Jurassic Park as anything less than "a masterpiece sixty-five million years in the making" I will be resigned to living out my days at the Zimmershrine.'

#75 Nick Parker

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 06:54 PM

Also novel adaptations:

Tom Sawyer
The Towering Inferno
SpaceCamp
The Witches of Eastwick
Born on the Fourth of July
Stanley and Iris
Presumed Innocent

What would Superman and The Adventures of Tintin: Secret of the Unicorn be considered?
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#76 Red

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 06:56 PM

AI is based on a Brian Aldiss short story called 'Supertoys Last All Summer Long' or something along those lines.

That's right, I forgot about that. I should have remembered though since all of Kubrick's work was based on novels or short stories.
Do you like John Williams? His early work was a little too jazzy for my taste, but when Jaws came out in '75 I really think he came into his own, commercially and artistically. The whole album has a clear, crisp sound, and an air of consummate professionalism that really gives the pieces a big boost. He's been compared to Jerry Goldsmith but I think John has a far more leitmotif-driven style of composing. In '82 John composed this, E.T., his most accomplished album to date. I think his undisputed masterpiece is "The Magic of Halloween", a theme so catchy most people don't listen to what it means. But they should, because it's not just about the pleasures of childhood and the importance of friendship, it's also a personal statement about the man himself. Hey Paul!
- Patrick Bateman on the Maestro

John Takis' Complete Hook Analysis


#77 Charlie Brigden

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 06:58 PM

Also novel adaptations:

Tom Sawyer
The Towering Inferno
SpaceCamp
The Witches of Eastwick
Born on the Fourth of July
Stanley and Iris
Presumed Innocent

What would Superman and The Adventures of Tintin: Secret of the Unicorn be considered?


Graphic novel/comic book adaptations. Tintin would be more graphic novel, as I believe those were released as actual books instead of serialized.
Repeat the JWFan pledge after me: 'I hereby recognise John Towner Williams' place in the world as the great composer there has ever been, and I therefore renounce the works of Rozsa, Korngold, Herrmann, Horner, Kamen, Giacchino (unless the prophecy is fulfilled and he becomes the heir to JTW) and Goldsmith, especially Goldsmith. I understand that if I ever refer to Jurassic Park as anything less than "a masterpiece sixty-five million years in the making" I will be resigned to living out my days at the Zimmershrine.'

#78 Nick Parker

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 07:02 PM

I would imagine you are right. And the amount of adaptations John Williams has scored is disturbing....
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#79 Nick Parker

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 04:15 AM

Why is Carrie Goldsmith given thanks in the Grim Fandango credits?

EDIT: Never mind, the person in question is "Claude Goldsmith". Is there any relation to Jerry Goldsmith?
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#80 Mr. Breathmask

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 11:17 AM

Graphic novel/comic book adaptations. Tintin would be more graphic novel, as I believe those were released as actual books instead of serialized.


Tintin first appeared in Le Petit XXième, a small local magazine. I believe it later became a newspaper magazine, before eventually being published in Tintin magazine.

Unlike American serialized comics (like Watchmen or V for Vendetta), most European graphic novels first appear in weekly or bi-weekly comic magzines like the old Tintin or Spirou (which is still being published). Two, three or four pages are printed at a time, meaning subscribers to the magazine get to read a new story spread over about 11 weeks (assuming it's a standard 44-page story published at 4 pages a week). The entire story is then later bundled into an album and released for sale. The magazines are basically a way for a publisher to hook readers on new series.

Another option is for a comic to first appear in newspapers (like Suske en Wiske, one of Belgium's biggest-selling comics) and then to be published in an album. These will often be published only one or two bands (two bands = half a page) at a time. When reading the album, you'll find the page divided into four equally sized bands and only rarely is the layout of the entire page taken into consideration (due to the initial publishing method).

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