2638 replies to this topic

[Wojo]

In The Last Crusade, when Indy is fighting on top of the tank and his posterior is shown to the persicope soldier, and then his cheek is pressed against the scope, the solider turns to his crewmates and speaks something in German.

Why isn't that subtitled? It's been 23 years, and I had to look it up online to see that he says "The Americans...they fight like girls!" Until now, I've just waved it off as "De Fiber, de hens de Fiber" or something like that.

I don't speak German, and none of the dialogue is subtitled. I think that weakens the movie.

[Marian Schedenig]

Not speaking German weakens the movie. Because the German spoken, especially in Raiders, is hilarious.

[Taikomochi]

Not speaking German weakens the movie. Because the German spoken, especially in Raiders, is hilarious.

For example?

[Wojo]

Not speaking German weakens the movie. Because the German spoken, especially in Raiders, is hilarious.

I agree with the first comment. I realized that while watching Der Untergang, which forced me to read so much to follow along. I did notice a lot of words that I started to "get" as the movie progressed, but that's not a movie I could watch over and over again to try and learn the language. It's a drag only knowing English and as much Spanish as you can remember from a four year high school program which ended 13 years ago.

[Josh500]

Not speaking German weakens the movie. Because the German spoken, especially in Raiders, is hilarious.

I am fluent in German, but I disagree.

Not speaking German doesn't weaken the movie. But yes, speaking German might add (slightly) to the hilarity factor!

[Marian Schedenig]

Not speaking German weakens the movie. Because the German spoken, especially in Raiders, is hilarious.

For example?

"Aah scheissa!"

I agree with the first comment. I realized that while watching Der Untergang, which forced me to read so much to follow along. I did notice a lot of words that I started to "get" as the movie progressed, but that's not a movie I could watch over and over again to try and learn the language. It's a drag only knowing English and as much Spanish as you can remember from a four year high school program which ended 13 years ago.

Well... obviously it's best to understand a movie in its native language, but you can't speak all languages. I don't speak French, yet I definitely prefer watching a French movie subtitled than watching a dubbed version. Which is why I hardly watch TV. German TV dubs *everything*. And while German dubs seem to be much better than those of most other languages, they're still nothnig less than a rape of the original movie.

[Josh500]

And while German dubs seem to be much better than those of most other languages...

It's really not!

It's about the same as most other languages (French, Italian, Spanish, Russian, Japanese etc.). Sometimes the German version is actually quite bad... and I don't mean how the voice artists speak (which is not that bad), but the translations. Many jokes and subtle nuances are lost in German along the way, more so than in many other languages.

__________________

Question:

Where is Jason's Complete Cue Analysis (as heard in the film) of Tintin? I can't find it...

[BloodBoal]

Where is Jason's Complete Cue Analysis (as heard in the film) of Tintin? I can't find it...

Here: http://www.jwfan.com...showtopic=20915

[Josh500]

Yes, thanks!



By the way I just made a discovery regarding "The Adventures of Tintin," the first track on the OS album!

Listen closely at 0:40.

And then listen to the same section but in the film version! The percussion line is different! The film version is WAY better... much more busy and energetic!

[Incanus]

Yes, thanks!



By the way I just made a discovery regarding "The Adventures of Tintin," the first track on the OS album!

Listen closely at 0:40.

And then listen to the same section but in the film version! The percussion line is different! The film version is WAY better... much more busy and energetic!

I think the difference in the percussion has been mentioned several times by now.

[Josh500]

Really? Somehow I suspected that...

Still, I found this out just now. Bummer! I hope there aren't any more differences, though...

[Marian Schedenig]

Can't locate the appropriate thread, so I'll ask this here...

On FSM's Ben-Hur, what's the deal with the sound quality on Circus Parade? There was a comment about it in some thread, but I can't remember the response. Circus Parade has much worse sound quality than any other track from the score (including all the Rome-recorded fanfares), in both the full and film edit versions. The official online track-by-track don't say why.

[crocodile]

I has been recorded outdooors to sound like it was performed live right there on the spot.

Karol

[Alexander]

Yes, thanks!



By the way I just made a discovery regarding "The Adventures of Tintin," the first track on the OS album!

Listen closely at 0:40.

And then listen to the same section but in the film version! The percussion line is different! The film version is WAY better... much more busy and energetic!

Yes.... I like the percussion in the film version much more. I even noticed that in the theatre.

[Josh500]

Yes.... I like the percussion in the film version much more. I even noticed that in the theatre.

I really wonder why the film version wasn't included on the OS album! Couldn't that have been a mistake?

I'd rather believe that than JW saying, "Oh, please make sure to include the version with the more bland drum line on the OS album!"

Because the film version is absolute perfection!

[Incanus]

Yes.... I like the percussion in the film version much more. I even noticed that in the theatre.

I really wonder why the film version wasn't included on the OS album! Couldn't that have been a mistake?

I'd rather believe that than JW saying, "Oh, please make sure to include the version with the more bland drum line on the OS album!"

Because the film version is absolute perfection!

I imagine that one of the possibilities is that the album was locked before they made the final review of the opening and thought that it needed a bit more prominent drums or it was the take Williams chose for the album since he liked it more.

[Josh500]

Yes.... I like the percussion in the film version much more. I even noticed that in the theatre.

I really wonder why the film version wasn't included on the OS album! Couldn't that have been a mistake?

I'd rather believe that than JW saying, "Oh, please make sure to include the version with the more bland drum line on the OS album!"

Because the film version is absolute perfection!

I imagine that one of the possibilities is that the album was locked before they made the final review of the opening and thought that it needed a bit more prominent drums or it was the take Williams chose for the album since he liked it more.

Yes. I agree. IMO, option 1 likelier, though. For some reason I can't imagine JW preferring the non-film version, since the film version is so much better!

Another possibility that I am not ready to discount is that an earlier version of this piece was included on the OS album by mistake...

[Richard]

A quick "Trek" question:

In ST:IV, Kirk says that money is not used in the 23rd century. If that is so, then how come McCoy was haggling over the price of passage to Genesis with the alien visitor, in the Starfleet bar in ST:III?

[Wojo]

Maybe that was the best excuse Kirk could come up with for not having money in his admiral's pockets? He was, after all, dealing with a woman. He was trying to get her to pay. Food first, nookie second.

The alien that McCoy was haggling with did not appear to be a member of Starfleet, and thus would not subscribe to the same principles of enlightened communism that the rest of the corps lived under.

Starfleet officers and enlisted crew lived on starships with all their needs taken care of, and Admiral Kirk's expansive flat overlooked the Golden Gate Bridge had an impressive amount of loot adorning the walls. This means they're pretty well off for not having any money. Blue alien with the big ears has his own spaceship, of course, but he has to try to skim something from this desperate loon (McCoy) in order to make ends meet. Something for nothing won't work with the non-Starfleet races. We see that later on with the Ferengi.

Also, don't forget that Scotty admits that he "bought a boat" in Star Trek VI, when the crew thought they were getting a retirement party. He didn't "make" a boat or "replicate" a boat or "get" a boat or "steal" a boat or "be given" a boat. (Memory Alpha says he "obtained a boat," how enlightening...) No, he "bought" it. Whether it was a boat for water (an old man for his fishing, no doubt), or a "boat" for space -- a spaceship -- that crashed him onto the Dyson sphere, is unclear.

[Stefancos]

The "no money" concept has never been consistently applied in Star Trek. Don't think about i......HEY LOOK, IT'S ENRICO PALAZZO!

[ckappes]

I was recently looking on the back side of the booklet from La-La Land's Hook and I noticed that the original album is listed.

Just curious... what's the story behind mentioning the original album on expanded/complete scores releases? I saw this issue on expanded releases like E.T. 1996 and 2002. Was it only a recommendation or does this apply the intension which is meant to be heard?

Any ideas?

[Faleel]

Anybody know of a similar font to the one used for the Hook logo?

[Marian Schedenig]

I has been recorded outdooors to sound like it was performed live right there on the spot.

Huh?

[crocodile]

The marches for Ben-Hur weren't recorded in Hollywood, nor in a studio. They were recorded in Rome, outdoors in order to simulate the sound of a march being performed out in the open,

Karol

[Marian Schedenig]

Well... I was aware that the marches were recorded in Rome (when the film was shot there, before the recording sessions proper took place in America), and that this included the circus parade. I didn't know they were recorded outdoors.

But it still doesn't explain why the parade sounds so much worse than all the other marches?

[Jacob]

So, there's something titled "An Ewok Celebration" on this Ewoks bootleg:
http://starwars.wiki...28soundtrack%29

Listening to it, it seems to have a clean ending of Victory Celebration.
Has anyone else heard this, and can tell if it's legit (the recording, I mean)?

It's not just the OST edited to stop before the credits--there's a longer fadeout.
I suppose it's just a well done fan extension, but I had never heard it before and it sounds pretty convincing.

[Alexander]

The so-called "Additional Material" tracks have never officially been sanctioned by Lucasfilm Ltd. and are in fact poorly engineered tracks cobbled together from a mixture of tracks from both the Star Wars Trilogy: The Original Soundtrack Anthology and various releases of the Return of the Jedi soundtrack.

[Jason LeBlanc]

At least use the [ quote] tags if you're going to paste something from a webpage without listing your source

[Alexander]

I just wanted to look smart.

[Stefancos]

Nice try....

[Jacob]

The so-called "Additional Material" tracks have never officially been sanctioned by Lucasfilm Ltd. and are in fact poorly engineered tracks cobbled together from a mixture of tracks from both the Star Wars Trilogy: The Original Soundtrack Anthology and various releases of the Return of the Jedi soundtrack.

Yes, I got that much (as it was on the page I linked to). "The Force Suite" has bits of McNeely's Shadows of the Empire, and "A Star Wars Experience" has MECO and other recordings mixed in--all very amateur.

But "An Ewok Celebration" includes the full album Victory Celebration with a rather nicely done fadeout (if it is indeed amateur). I was just wondering if anyone else had come across it.

[Richard]

Did Miklos Rozsa ever re-use any of his "religious" music from "Ben-Hur", in "King Of Kings"?

[Marian Schedenig]

Didn't he reuse the cross bearing music somewhere?

[Taikomochi]

What is the specific difference between a motif and a theme, musically?

[Stefancos]

The simple answer is that one is shorter then the other.
but I don't know if there are any particular guidelines to what MUST constitute a theme or a motif.

[Jason LeBlanc]

What is the specific difference between a motif and a theme, musically?

People generally call "major" themes that represent a major character or place or idea and maybe get their own concert arrangement a "theme", while "minor" themes that might not get played as often or not get a full development "motifs"

[Taikomochi]

So, this is more a discretionary distinction? There is no concrete difference, other than which is put in the forefront?

[Incanus]

What is the specific difference between a motif and a theme, musically?

People generally call "major" themes that represent a major character or place or idea and maybe get their own concert arrangement a "theme", while "minor" themes that might not get played as often or not get a full development "motifs"

Wikipedia defines motif quite aptly: Motif is a short musical idea a salient recurring figure, musical fragment or succession of notes that has some special importance in or is characteristic of a composition.

For a theme it says: A theme may be perceivable as a complete musical expression in itself, separate from the work in which it is found (Drabkin 2001). In contrast to an idea or motif, a theme is usually a complete phrase or period (Dunsby 2002). The Encyclopédie Fasquelle defines a theme as "Any element, motif, or small musical piece that has given rise to some variation becomes thereby a theme." (Michel 1958–61).

So there are different theories or ideas how each is defined, but apparently nothing truly definitive.

And of course leitmotif has its own special meaning which is the term we mostly use in film music for themes.
Wikipedia once again has this under leitmotif: Although usually a short melody, it can also be a chord progression or even a simple rhythm. Leitmotifs can help to bind a work together into a coherent whole, and also enable the composer to relate a story without the use of words, or to add an extra level to an already present story.
So it would seem that leitmotif covers both the idea of motif, a short melodic etc. identification and themes which are longer musical phrases.

[Jason LeBlanc]

So, this is more a discretionary distinction? There is no concrete difference, other than which is put in the forefront?

I think so. Would love to hear Doug Adam's take on it.

[Stefancos]

Thats what i said, guys....