2623 replies to this topic

[Marian Schedenig]

The Great Train Robbery is a good transition score to turn a Williams fan into a Goldsmith fan. Worked for me, at least.

You mean Dennis The Menace

Never warmed to that very much.

[Koray Savas]

The Great Train Robbery is a good transition score to turn a Williams fan into a Goldsmith fan. Worked for me, at least.

You mean Dennis The Menace

Never warmed to that very much.

Well you should, since the main theme is stolen from The Great Train Robbery.

[Delorean90]

Main themes do not a full score make.

[Koray Savas]

In Dennis The Menace's case is pretty much does. Both are excellent scores, and I think it's funny how similar they are.

[Marian Schedenig]

I don't even recall Dennis' main theme, and it never seemed to be more than somewhat similar to me. In any case, the score as a whole is nowhere near GTR in style or substance.

[Josh500]

Dennis has one of the best Goldsmith themes, I thought...

I don't know the other one.

[E.T. & Elliott]

Why is the alternate "Funeral Pyre For a Jedi" on ROTJ SE, but not the alternate "Leia Breaks the News"?

What the hell was "Tatooine Rendezvous" composed for? I know there was a cut scene involving Luke and the droids in the cave, but as far as I know that was never filmed?

[Diego]

About the alternate "Leia Breaks the News" I imagine it was a space issue, some labels won't release CDs that have more than 75 minutes as it increases the probabilities of defects in the production. Good thing it's on the anthology.

Tatooine Rendezvous was composed for a scene right after Vader's arrival at the Death Star, he has a "telephatic conversation" with Luke, like at the end of Empire, it then cuts to Tatooine where Luke places his new saber into R2 and sends the droids to Jabba's Palace.

It's strange that none of this scene has ever leaked since it must have been pretty complete and in a late cut of the film if John was able to score it.

[indy4]

I just ordered the Omen Trilogy Boxset. I already have the Deluxe Edition of the first score--can I get rid of it? Are there any differences between the two, especially in music or liner notes?

[Koray Savas]

I believe the boxset has the Deluxe Edition of all 3. So you have an extra copy.

[Mark Olivarez]

The set is made up of the individual releases in a new slipcase.

So yes,you can get rid of it.

[John Crichton]

Congratulations, you're a double dipper.

[indy4]

Okay, thanks guys.

[Koray Savas]

I caught the last 10-15 minutes or so of Harrison Ford's biography on the Bio channel. Steven Spileberg was one of the people that spoke, and he said something that I never knew. Did anyone know that Ford stapled the fedora to his head in order to keep it on? Spielberg said Ford and Lucas would kill him for saying that, but he said it anyway.

[Charlie Brigden]

I caught the last 10-15 minutes or so of Harrison Ford's biography on the Bio channel. Steven Spileberg was one of the people that spoke, and he said something that I never knew. Did anyone know that Ford stapled the fedora to his head in order to keep it on? Spielberg said Ford and Lucas would kill him for saying that, but he said it anyway.

It's Spielberg joking around. Ford staples the hat to his head in the original LAST CRUSADE teaser, so he's just having fun with that.

[Richard Penna]

I think that's a joke Koray.

[Koray Savas]

Dammit Spielberg! They did show a clip of it, which I guess was the teaser.

[Charlie Brigden]

Dammit Spielberg! They did show a clip of it, which I guess was the teaser.

Yeah, the teaser was like a behind the scenes mini-movie.

Here:

[Josh500]

Hey, I have a quick question reg. Jaws Main Theme...

At the beginning of this, you can hear very soft sounds that sound like underwater noise... even before the first dum-dum starts. I dunno really how to describe it, but it conjures up images of being deep underwater... What is this exactly? Did JW write that? Does the orchestra do that, or is that a sound effect?

You can hear it best in the Spielberg/Williams version the Jaws Theme, I think!

[Charlie Brigden]

Hmm, I've never heard that. In the film, there's a crash of waves and some strange watery sounds over the Universal logo and the first bit of black. But those are actual sound effects that I've never heard replicated on an album, although I don't have the Spielberg/Williams one.

[Josh500]

Hmm, I've never heard that. In the film, there's a crash of waves and some strange watery sounds over the Universal logo and the first bit of black. But those are actual sound effects that I've never heard replicated on an album, although I don't have the Spielberg/Williams one.

I just listened to the OS album, and no it's not on that! And yes, I mean that strange watery sound...

But it's on the Spielberg Williams one, and also on the Hollywood Sound album, performed by the LSO.

I'm thinking the orchestra must be doing something there... I can't believe JW would use synthethizers just for that!

[Datameister]

I'm listening to the beginning Spielberg/Williams recording at the loudest volume I can. I don't have the score or anything, but it sounds to me like there's a little bit of harp, a very soft roll on tam-tam (AKA gong) and bass drum, and something alternating between F, F#, G#, and A...perhaps prepared piano, or another harp, or woodwinds playing with an unconventional technique? It's very hard to tell. The double basses might be doing some very low notes in there, too. But I'd say the bass drum and tam-tam roll is really responsible for most of that eerie underwater feel. EDIT: Yeah, I don't hear synths in this, though there might be some hidden very softly in the mix.

[Josh500]

I'm listening to the beginning Spielberg/Williams recording at the loudest volume I can. I don't have the score or anything, but it sounds to me like there's a little bit of harp, a very soft roll on tam-tam (AKA gong) and bass drum, and something alternating between F, F#, G#, and A...perhaps prepared piano, or another harp, or woodwinds playing with an unconventional technique? It's very hard to tell. The double basses might be doing some very low notes in there, too. But I'd say the bass drum and tam-tam roll is really responsible for most of that eerie underwater feel. EDIT: Yeah, I don't hear synths in this, though there might be some hidden very softly in the mix.

I've always wondered what this is... To be honest, I don't hear any woodwinds there, but a harp and a gong... yeah, maybe!

Hmmm, I don't have the written sheet music, but I remember having seen the first page of it somewhere, and I seem to remember there was nothing concerning this! It just started with the bass playing the first note...

Does any one HAVE the sheet music?

[Datameister]

Well, I'm 99% sure about the tam-tam, and about 93% sure about the bass drum. The harp I'm 100% sure about, but they notes are in the low register, which makes them sound less characteristically harplike. That other instrument is just really hard to figure out...it's probably prepared piano or something. But there are unorthodox techniques that can be used to make very strange sounds with flutes and so forth...it's not out of the question.

[Josh500]

Well, I'm 99% sure about the tam-tam, and about 93% sure about the bass drum. The harp I'm 100% sure about, but they notes are in the low register, which makes them sound less characteristically harplike. That other instrument is just really hard to figure out...it's probably prepared piano or something. But there are unorthodox techniques that can be used to make very strange sounds with flutes and so forth...it's not out of the question.

I've just come to appreciate the Main Theme from Jaws even more just now...

BTW, there's a section of this piece 1:38-1:41 that's heavily reminiscent of a section of Battle Over Coruscant (a part that's NOT on the OS album)... has anyone noticed this? It's almost note for note the same (orchestration differs slightly, though, of course).

[Datameister]

I think I hear the passage you're talking about, but it doesn't sound especially similar to me.

[Josh500]

I think I hear the passage you're talking about, but it doesn't sound especially similar to me.

Then you're listening to the wrong passage!

OK, the one I'm talking about:

Battle Over Coruscant, at around 4:02
Jaws Main Title (Spielberg/Williams version): 1:38-1:41

Itr's VERY similar!

[Datameister]

Well, I mean, it sounds similar in the sense that the Superman main theme sounds similar to the Star Wars main theme - they're both brassy, heroic major-key fanfares, but otherwise quite different. EDIT: Yes, that's exactly the comparison I thought you were making, but again, I'd say the similarity is superficial.

[Josh500]

Are you listening to the passages I indicated?

It's the same succession of notes... and used in the same way, to boot! To shift gears, so to speak!

[Datameister]

Must I go into specifics?

* The ROTS passage is in 6/8 or 6/4 or some sort of triple meter; the Jaws passage is in 4/4.
* The ROTS passage makes continual use of bass drum (or taiko or whatever) hits on beats 1 and 5; the Jaws passage just uses a few in irregular places.
* The ROTS passage has a slower tempo.
* The ROTS passage uses the strings to play simple repeated whole-step intervals; the Jaws passage uses them to scurry around in faster runs.
* The ROTS passage does not use trombones; the Jaws passage uses them prominently.
* The ROTS passage goes on for much longer, using trumpets to play a very "modern JW" melody; the Jaws passage is shorter, and it is followed by a very different melody for woodwinds.

Don't make me write out a transcription!

[Josh500]

Must I go into specifics?

* The ROTS passage is in 6/8 or 6/4 or some sort of triple meter; the Jaws passage is in 4/4.
* The ROTS passage makes continual use of bass drum (or taiko or whatever) hits on beats 1 and 5; the Jaws passage just uses a few in irregular places.
* The ROTS passage has a slower tempo.
* The ROTS passage uses the strings to play simple repeated whole-step intervals; the Jaws passage uses them to scurry around in faster runs.
* The ROTS passage does not use trombones; the Jaws passage uses them prominently.
* The ROTS passage goes on for much longer, using trumpets to play a very "modern JW" melody; the Jaws passage is shorter, and it is followed by a very different melody for woodwinds.

Don't make me write out a transcription!

I can't believe I'm arguing with you over this...

I just said these passages sound similar! And they do!

The orchestration differs, of course, like I said. No need to get technical.





Hey I have another question:

Why does Double Trouble in the trailer sound so much different from the version found on the OS? I gotta say, I love the trailer version. The choir sounds more animated, more fun, somehow... listen for yourself:



Maybe this was an early recording, and until JW recorded the OS album, the kids had grown up!

[Datameister]

But I said the similarities were superficial, and I proved it! Those technicalities are responsible for it sounding somewhat different, at least to me! You said it was almost note-for-note identical, with only slight differences in the orchestration, and that's simply not true!

As for the trailer version of Double Trouble, yeah, it certainly has an interesting sound to it. The song itself was written during production, of course, so the children could be filmed lip-syncing it in the Great Hall. I've always assumed that they recorded this quick version for the trailer and then invested more time in a polished recording for the film. The children don't seem to have British accents, which makes a difference, and they kept a lot of the longer notes a lot more staccato. The instrumentation is fun, too...a little less medieval and a little more orchestral, which is deliciously appropriate in the trailer but it wouldn't have been in the film. I also like how it speeds up a bit toward the end, really building energy.

Actually, I love all the music in that teaser trailer...anyone know where the music in the beginning was from? Perhaps written by Williams specifically for the trailer?

[Josh500]

As for the trailer version of Double Trouble, yeah, it certainly has an interesting sound to it. The song itself was written during production, of course, so the children could be filmed lip-syncing it in the Great Hall. I've always assumed that they recorded this quick version for the trailer and then invested more time in a polished recording for the film. The children don't seem to have British accents, which makes a difference, and they kept a lot of the longer notes a lot more staccato. The instrumentation is fun, too...a little less medieval and a little more orchestral, which is deliciously appropriate in the trailer but it wouldn't have been in the film. I also like how it speeds up a bit toward the end, really building energy.

Yes, it is more polished on the OS, but still... I like the "raw" version in the trailer more, somehow... sounds more genuine.

The choir sounds different. I was thinking maybe they used more girls than boys (or just girls) for the earlier recording, and for the OS they had boys and girls...

[Datameister]

Well, the final version is just boys - it's the London Oratory School Schola, a British boys choir. It does sound to me like there were some girls involved in the trailer version.

[Nick Parker]

Either that or those boys desperately needed puberty....

[Josh500]

Well, the final version is just boys - it's the London Oratory School Schola, a British boys choir. It does sound to me like there were some girls involved in the trailer version.

Yes, definitely.

I guess there had to be, since in the movie we see (mostly) girls singing in the choir.

[Omen II]

Hey, I have a quick question reg. Jaws Main Theme...

At the beginning of this, you can hear very soft sounds that sound like underwater noise... even before the first dum-dum starts. I dunno really how to describe it, but it conjures up images of being deep underwater... What is this exactly? Did JW write that? Does the orchestra do that, or is that a sound effect?

I went to a concert last year with the City of Birmingham Symphony Orchestra performing an all-Williams programme, including the theme from Jaws. It was the first time I had ever heard it performed live and I was pleased that they included those few bars of quietly ominous intro before the famous theme starts. The two instruments playing at the beginning were the harp and piano (very softly, in its lowest register, but the acoustics in Symphony Hall are excellent and I could see them with my own eyes). Therefore Datameister has a very good ear and is probably correct; although I do not remember seeing the gong being played in the intro for that performance, I could well have missed it and I suppose it is quite possible that the Boston Pops version did not use identical orchestral forces.

[Josh500]

I wonder whether those initial bars are included in the Signature Edition score...

Does anybody have that?

BTW, on the Spielberg/Williams version, it's definitely NOT just piano and harp... so probably the tam-tam, like datameister said.

[Mark Olivarez]

No it only appears in a few of the concert versions. Just some atmosphere added by Williams.

It's not on the original album nor the 25th Anniversary album.


The sounds you hear in the film during the Universal logo and fade are whales/underwater sounds. They also appears over the Universal logo in Jaws 2 and I think Jaws 3, although there is unreleased music playing over the logo as well.

[Charlie Brigden]

How many times has an album track begun with a cue that chronologically follows the cue that is including on the second half of the track? That doesn't make much sense, so context: I'm going through the Anthology redoing my ROTJ edit, and 'Heroic Ewok/The Fleet Goes Into Hyperspace' is such a case, where Heroic Ewok should come after The Fleet Goes Into Hyperspace.