253 replies to this topic

[John Crichton]

I can't believe I'm typing this but if you hear unreleased music in the film, you can talk about it.


Seriously.

I'm glad we're on the same page here at least. I guess Texas people are just plain smarter.

[Mark Olivarez]

Like I said, a little common sense is all it takes.

[king mark]

It requires you to write something ,then re-write it in a way that won't get you a warning or banned .That's what pisses me off .And that REALLY rare one of a kind stuff will pass by us unnoticed (example: The pre-Concord Raiders leak )

also that were moving away from the true spirit of an "unofficial JW fan forum"

[Charlie Brigden]

I find it interesting that it's apparently fine that we can't talk about real matters in the real world, but suddenly it's internet armageddon because we're not allowed to discuss what is generally illegal material. That seems a bit strange to me, especially when we all have private messages and email and MSN and what have you to communicate.

I'm happy with the politics/religion rule. I talk enough about politics at home and work, and my views on religion are best kept to themselves. And we can swear now, apparently. At the end of the day, I come here to talk about film and music and geeky stuff, which I don't generally get to talk about in the real world, as it were. And on an earlier point, I did originally come here after reading about the fabled ftp, and to see if I could maybe get in on that, but after discovering that it was a good place to talk about stuff, it never crossed my mind again.

I also echo the compliments for Marc, who does an excellent job.

[Mark Olivarez]

Oh good lord Mark you're making this harder than neccessary.


You can talk about all the unreleased music you want, just don't mention where it came from.


If I wan't to talk about music that was left off the Varese Air Force One I can because the music is in the film, if you want to talk about micro edits in Williams' music you can because you heard it in the film.

Is that really so hard to understand?

[MrScratch]

Oh good lord Mark you're making this harder than neccessary.

You can talk about all the unreleased music you want, just don't mention where it came from.

If I wan't to talk about music that was left off the Varese Air Force One I can because the music is in the film, if you want to talk about micro edits in Williams' music you can because you heard it in the film.

Is that really so hard to understand?

...and down the slippery slope we go.

[king mark]

Exactly ,the rule was fine as it was.

Maybe you can add to it that you can't post an OBVIOUS topic TITLE just to announce some recording sessions have leaked (al la Goonies, BTTF). That would make some good sense .

I'm more worried about individual posts being censored left and right.

[Marian Schedenig]

So if I understand correctly, these new rules were introduced to lick the boots of the evil record company consortium which is conspiring against us and John Williams by releasing Jerry Goldsmith soundtracks? Why? A bribe to get Neil more jobs on those releases?

[MrScratch]

What about a release that appears on Ebay? Ebay is a perfectly legit marketplace to purchase music and they don't allow the sale of bootlegs. So, if something is on ebay it can be assumed to be legit until ebay takes it down.

[Mark Olivarez]

Like I said, a little common sense is all it takes.




We all know what's been legally released.

[MrScratch]

Fact: shopping at ebay and is not illegal. As for "common sense", out of 100 years worth of film scores, I don't know the status of each and every film score or whether it has been properly released or not.

[Richard Penna]

I'm ok with the rule as long as Marc approaches it with a little common sense, and bears in mind the purpose behind the rule.

I maintain though that the idea that stopping bootleg discussion will somehow protect the interests of the specialty labels is a misguided one.

[Mark Olivarez]

Fact: shopping at ebay and is not illegal. As for "common sense", out of 100 years worth of film scores, I don't know the status of each and every film score or whether it has been properly released or not.

There are plenty of resources available, such as soundtrack collector website.

And if you are unsure just ask someone.

[Drax]

I'm waiting now for the rule that censors all criticism towards Zimmer, MV, RC and co. Bring it to the board... BRING IT!

[MrScratch]

Fact: shopping at ebay and is not illegal. As for "common sense", out of 100 years worth of film scores, I don't know the status of each and every film score or whether it has been properly released or not.

There are plenty of resources available, such as soundtrack collector website.
And if you are unsure just ask someone.

That is not my responsibility nor my concern, so long as the seller accurately describes the item.

[Mark Olivarez]

Well if you pay $50.00 for a CD-R I guess you can't say you didn't have the resources available to determine whether or not it was real.

[MrScratch]

Well if you pay $50.00 for a CD-R I guess you can't say you didn't have the resources available to determine whether or not it was real.

How much I am willing to pay for something is irrelevant, I'm talking about discussing ebay auctions which are perfectly legal to view and bid on until ebay revokes them.

[Mark Olivarez]

Well let me put it this way.


I'm going to do my research before I bid on something that is obviously too good to be true. As a film score fan I'm going to make sure I know what the hell is going on instead of making excuses that just because eBay lists it it must be legal.

[MrScratch]

I'm going to do my research before I bid on something that is obviously too good to be true. As a film score fan I'm going to make sure I know what the hell is going on instead of making excuses that just because eBay lists it it must be legal.

So am I, but I'm talking about the legalities of browsing and shopping on ebay and then discussing it, particularly as it relates to something that could be a bootleg. This is why censorship is dumb and, sorry folks, defending censorship is even dumber.

And I never said that "just because eBay lists it it must be legal". But from a buyer's standpoint, ebay is legal to view and legal to place bids.

[Mark Olivarez]

Again common sense, common sense.

But that appears to be lacking on this message board.

But one of the great things about the world is that if you don't like the rules you can go make your own message board and discuss whatever you wish.

[MrScratch]

Common sense would tell me to take that Goonies thread, retitle it, allow the discussion to continue and ask the the bootleg talk be kept in check. Instead, some unnecessary and idiotic rule was implented. And the funny thing is, what does JWFan have to gain or lose by the rule: nothing. I mean, really, outside of us who in the world cares about what goes on here in these messageboards?

[king mark]

Common sense would tell me to take that Goonies thread, retitle it, allow the discussion to continue and ask the the bootleg talk be kept in check. Instead, some unnecessary and idiotic rule was implented. And the funny thing is, what does JWFan have to gain or lose by the rule: nothing. I mean, really, outside of us who in the world cares about what goes on here in these messageboards?

Exactly ,these are 20 year old film scores that studios would probably toss out if they lack storage space . Hardly anything to start calling this site somekind of "piracy cove" or whatever.

I think this new rule, in line with the stance on bootleg at label's sites, is that some of the "moderating team" is probably trying to get a job there or something.

[Richard Penna]

I doubt there's any ulterior motive here, although I for one don't accept 'protection of legit releases' as a reason. Stopping bootlegging won't change legit sales.

I will echo my support for Marc's general moderating - he does a great job. But I do feel that rule by rule, this place is becoming more confined against threats that I don't think exist.

[Henry Buck]

This rule could absolutely limit the discussion of music. Let me give a specific example: a few months ago a bootleg of the complete score to Schindler's List surfaced, and one of the most interesting finds was an alternative version of "I Could Have Done More." This cue was heard neither in the film nor on the CD album, and it hasn't been published as sheet music. Therefore, the only way I could have heard this cue is through an illegal bootleg. I should be banned just for admitting that this cue exists. You see the problem? Now, whenever we discuss "I Could Have Done More," I'll have to say "There's the version of the cue on the album, and there's the film version. It's possible that there's another version of the cue, but no evidence of one exists." It's an outright lie that prevents discussion of Williams' music and compositional process.

[Richard Penna]

We're mentioning boots in the thread designed to make people aware of the no-boots rule.

I like that

[Koray Savas]

It doesn't specifically say in Marc's announcement about leaked CD releases. Could I go talk about a certain score I'm listening to in the appropriate thread?

[Jacob]

We're mentioning boots in the thread designed to make people aware of the no-boots rule.

Ban me.

[John Crichton]

[Hlao-roo]

We're mentioning boots in the thread designed to make people aware of the no-boots rule.

Ban me.

Uncool, bro.

[king mark]

This rule could absolutely limit the discussion of music. Let me give a specific example: a few months ago a bootleg of the complete score to Schindler's List surfaced, and one of the most interesting finds was an alternative version of "I Could Have Done More." This cue was heard neither in the film nor on the CD album, and it hasn't been published as sheet music. Therefore, the only way I could have heard this cue is through an illegal bootleg. I should be banned just for admitting that this cue exists. You see the problem? Now, whenever we discuss "I Could Have Done More," I'll have to say "There's the version of the cue on the album, and there's the film version. It's possible that there's another version of the cue, but no evidence of one exists." It's an outright lie that prevents discussion of Williams' music and compositional process.

That's exactly the kind of thing I'm thinking about . It also applies to some of the Indy music in regards to some cues that weren't on the Concord set but available elsewhere ,in terms of discussing sound quality...ect..

Also ,when a new Williams unreleased cue or music piece leaks out ,it's pretty much the only thing to get the board out of the doldrums when were not anticipating a new Williams score or c.d. release

[Henry Buck]

And how about this? We can't discuss Gabriel Yared's rejected score to Troy. At all.

[Jacob]

We're mentioning boots in the thread designed to make people aware of the no-boots rule.

Ban me.

Uncool, bro.

Sometimes my conscience gets to me...




















but not this time.

[Marian Schedenig]

And how about this? We can't discuss Gabriel Yared's rejected score to Troy. At all.

Why not? Didn't he even have some tracks on his own website for a while?

I can't speak for the moderators, obviously, but I think if you stop making such a fuss about it and just not make a big deal of pointing out the details and whereabouts of boots, everything should be fine.

[John Crichton]

We're mentioning boots in the thread designed to make people aware of the no-boots rule.

Ban me.

Besides, I prefer these:

[Wojo]

What about a release that appears on Ebay? Ebay is a perfectly legit marketplace to purchase music and they don't allow the sale of bootlegs. So, if something is on ebay it can be assumed to be legit until ebay takes it down.

I wish that were the case. I've bought at least four items from eBay* that I knew were not legit, but I bid on them, won them, and now possess them anyways.

I said four for the sake of argument; three were from eBay and one was from Amazon Marketplace. Two were film scores, one was a DVD rip of laserdisc material, and the fourth would make Lego fans everywhere wet themselves.

[Hlao-roo]

I can't speak for the moderators, obviously, but I think if you stop making such a fuss about it and just not make a big deal of pointing out the details and whereabouts of boots, everything should be fine.

Wrong, wrong, wrong. A fuss is exactly what we should be making about it. Henry, KM, richuk, and all others opposed to the new rules, I want you to get up now. I want all of you to get up out of your chairs. I want you to get up right now and go to the window. Open it, and stick your head out, and yell, "I'M AS MAD AS HELL, AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANYMORE!" I want you to get up right now, sit up, go to your windows, open them and stick your head out and yell, "I'm as mad as hell and I'm not going to take this anymore!" Things have got to change. But first, you've gotta get mad! You've got to say, "I'm as mad as hell, and I'm not going to take this anymore!" Then we'll figure out what to do about Ricard and Neil and Marc and their stupid rules. But first get up out of your chairs, open the window, stick your head out, and yell, and say it: "I'M AS MAD AS HELL, AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANYMORE!"

[Richard Penna]

*falls off chair*

[Luke Skywalker]

I think it is a perfectly reasonable and understandable new set of rules

It's not a a stupid rule

And they should be taking that approach

I can breathe just fine, you're just having another one of you hissy fits.

Indeed

I have no problems with it

It's fine by me

I don't think anyone should be surprised. I certainly understand the motivation

New rule's fine with me

Just to get it out there, I have no problem with this rule

You gotta do what you gotta do Marc

"So this is how liberty dies, with thunderous applause."


Jokes aside:

I think this rule is In my opinion, too strict. A wattered down version would be welcome.
I think that any talk about how, where, when... to obtain the bootlegs could harm the site, now talking about them, musically wise, and making covers for them, it's beyond my comprenhension what harm could it bring (specially the covers).

I have read in this thread, that supporting the labels should be the approach this site should take. OK, the site should do that when the labels support it, and Andreas does not have to spend his own money on struggling to keep it alive.

And as mentioned a few posts up there, with this new rule all unreleased unused cues and unreleased alternates cannot be talked about, so, in a sense, they 'don't exist'. I dont see how common sense could evade the rule in this matter without resorting to irony, hypocrisy or a paradox (case in point: a person gets his hands on a newly surface bootleg with an unused and unreleased cue, and that person talks about it, without mentioning the source but of course everyone knows that the only way for it to surface is from unofficcial sources). And then we are losing a great deal of musical discussion and insight from great people here, because lets face it, a PM is a dialog between two people, not a round-table about a topic.

As said, i hope the site goes on forever, so if things must be done in order to that, go on with them.

On the other hand, I'm not going to say the rule is fine with me, because i would be lying.

[Marian Schedenig]

I wish that were the case. I've bought at least four items from eBay* that I knew were not legit, but I bid on them, won them, and now possess them anyways.

I said four for the sake of argument; three were from eBay and one was from Amazon Marketplace. Two were film scores, one was a DVD rip of laserdisc material, and the fourth would make Lego fans everywhere wet themselves.

Bootleg Lego?

[Maxxie]

Bootleg Lego?

What a mouthful.