1929 replies to this topic

[crocodile]

The major difference between the two is that in Alien, you get a bunch of normal people in a mundane enviroment and then something horrific and extraordinary happens to them. In Prometheus, you've got big egos and knowledge of universe on board with tremendous expectations and... nothing in this scale ever happens to those people. Even the main characters are somewhat disappointed and underwhelmed when they "get there".

Karol

[Thor]

The script for Alien is nothing special.

Agreed. That film is ALL about execution, not story, which is as thin as it comes ('people flee from monster in dark corridors'). As an artistic statement, however, it's very profound. Some audiovisual exploration of Freudian themes barely rivalled before or since.

PROMETHEUS expands the whole philosophical agenda to be about that and more, while at the same time keeping the story focussed. That's just marvelous.

ALIEN is probably the reason I got interested in films in the first place, so I've had monumental expectations for this film for 25 years, at least (when I first started to speculate what it would be like if Scott returned to the universe to tell the pre-story), and that it managed to fulfill my expectations is an unbelievable feat. Even though I tried to psych myself DOWN before the film and let it come to me rather than meet it with all my years of 'luggage'.

[Quint]

A good script doesn't necessarily mean or need a good story, Thor.

[Chaac]

It's a good story anyway.

Thor, the reason people were impressed and remember Alien is because of the script. You know, the opening, the encounter of the eggs, the diner scene, when Ash tries to choke Ripley, the escape in the small ship only to find the creature there, when they find the facehugger dead, when Ripley doesn't want Kane in, when they reactivate Ash's head, Ripley looking for the cat, and more... and the order of all the events in a perfect succesion making the situation more and more tense... You can have all the awesome "execution" you want, but without all that, the film wouldn't be good or memorable.

[Sandor]

Possible spoilers below.

Saw Prometheus. Didn't like it. At all. Mostly because you really don't give a damn about any of these characters. The 'philosophical' aspects are paper thin at best so stop praising that, because it's not worth it.

I was completely turned down when the characters had to turn the mysterious and incomprehensible surroundings (the alien ship, the 'black ooze', etc.) into a plot for convenience sake. Nobody would ever conclude on the discoveries made the exact motivations of the alien race, why that one dude was still in hibernation, etc. But these characters do. I hate that really. If the question "Now how the F*CK would they know that?!" keeps popping up in my head a couple of times during a movie I know I'm watching a dud.

Now there were some good moments, especially the scary scenes, but to be honest; even shit like The Texas Chainsaw Massacre: The Beginning has that.

So after Lucas failed to succesfully return to an old franchise/style with Star Wars, Spielberg with Indy and now Scott with Prometheus, I guess it's up to Peter Jackson to do that what other giants couldn't do. Go Hobbit..!

[Stefancos]

I guess it's up to Peter Jackson to do that what other giants couldn't do. Go Hobbit..!

Bunny rabbits in front of a carriage man!

[Quint]

Lucas and Scott didn't come armed with Ian McKellen

[publicist]

If i have a spliff before watching it, i may have a religious experience, too. With 3D, you never know...

[Stefancos]

yeah!

[Koray Savas]

Yeah, cheesy and god awful, bless him!

Seems like a lot of you don't know that Morricone essentially composed a symphony that was chopped and edited to fit the film. He didn't compose to picture. I personally love the score, the organ is probably the most difficult instrument to utilize in music.

[Alexcremers]

The script for Alien is nothing special.

Agreed. That film is ALL about execution, not story, which is as thin as it comes ('people flee from monster in dark corridors'). As an artistic statement, however, it's very profound. Some audiovisual exploration of Freudian themes barely rivalled before or since.

Sorry, but dialogue is script too. And the dialogue of Alien was very good. If the dialogue wasn't good then it would have stood in the way of the film becoming a classic. It's partly thanks to the dialogue that the film displays a rare naturalistic Ken loach like interaction between the characters, which made them like you and me. I fear that with Prometheus, the dialogue is precisely what is hurting the film.


Alex

[publicist]

Seems like a lot of you don't know that Morricone essentially composed a symphony that was chopped and edited to fit the film. He didn't compose to picture. I personally love the score, the organ is probably the most difficult instrument to utilize in music.

Morricone and Hollywood just don't mesh, save for off-beaters like U-TURN (which is brilliant).

[Stefancos]

Don't forget The Untouchables!

[Koray Savas]

He's done plenty of brilliant American scores.

The Mission, A Time Of Destiny, The Untouchables, The Thing, Days Of Heaven, Frantic, Lolita, Hamlet, Casualties Of War...

If by Hollywood you meant more big budget stuff, well then yes.

[Sandor]

The script for Alien is nothing special.

Agreed. That film is ALL about execution, not story, which is as thin as it comes ('people flee from monster in dark corridors'). As an artistic statement, however, it's very profound. Some audiovisual exploration of Freudian themes barely rivalled before or since.

Sorry, but dialogue is script too. And the dialogue of Alien was very good. If the dialogue wasn't good then it would have stood in the way of the film becoming a classic. It's partly thanks to the dialogue that the film displays a rare naturalistic Ken loach like interaction between the characters, which made them like you and me. I fear that with Prometheus, the dialogue is precisely what is hurting the film.


Alex

Agree so much with Alex right now... The script of Alien is superb.

[Stefancos]

It is fine, but in the hands of someone else it could have been just a very average film.

The script is not the reason Alien is a great film.

[Sandor]

It is fine, but in the hands of someone else it could have been just a very average film.

The script is not the reason Alien is a great film.

As with so many classic films, excellence on various fundamental levels: directing, screenplay, acting, editing, score, ... Alien being a good example. It was one of those fortunate productions where all departments delivered greatness.

[Alexcremers]

Yes, it's part of the reason. Let's not forget that for a sci-fi movie they were some very unusual elements in Alien: a strong female heroine in a genre dominated by men. When I saw the film in 1979, my money was on captain Dallas. The ordinary blue collar setting on board of a spaceship, ...

[Stefancos]

As with so many classic films, excellence on various fundamental levels: directing, screenplay, acting, editing, score,

Doesn't sound like Alien is much of an "auteur" film then.

[Sandor]

Yes, it's part of the reason.

Indeed. When I was very young and saw Alien for the first time it stood head and shoulders above any other sci-fi/horror I'd seen. Why? Because it felt REAL. Serious. This level of realism was mostly achieved by the character interactions and the dialogue.

[Quint]

The only reason anybody is having to defend the Alien script at all is because the Dutchman said something very foolish about it!

[Stefancos]

True, I love the very naturalistic acting in Alien.

[Jason LeBlanc]

There is no great film that did not start with a great script. Period.

[Stefancos]

That's rhetorical nonsense.

[Koray Savas]

There is no great film that did not start with a great script. Period.

I think I said in another thread like a day ago too and received some flak.

[Thor]

It's a good story anyway.

Thor, the reason people were impressed and remember Alien is because of the script. You know, the opening, the encounter of the eggs, the diner scene, when Ash tries to choke Ripley, the escape in the small ship only to find the creature there, when they find the facehugger dead, when Ripley doesn't want Kane in, when they reactivate Ash's head, Ripley looking for the cat, and more... and the order of all the events in a perfect succesion making the situation more and more tense... You can have all the awesome "execution" you want, but without all that, the film wouldn't be good or memorable.

I disagree.

I think the primary effect of ALIEN is on a purely subconscious level, as it taps into some primary human fears mirrored in Freudian imagery (Giger's set design) -- set within a very realistic style (esp. the acting). The script -- in the meaning of story -- is secondary, I think.

[Chaac]

Surely, take out all the classic moments laid out in the script, see how scared people are...

If they hadn't started from it, the film would have gone nowhere. Of course, they could have ruined the script later, but I'm glad they didn't and that the film came out strong on all fronts.

[Blumenkohl]

There is no great film that did not start with a great script. Period.

I don't think that's the best way to look at it. It's like saying there is no great cookie that did not start with a great recipe.

You can't really judge the success of a script or cookie recipe without its final film or cookie. And you can't discount how much influence execution has on the script or recipe. A master baker can improvise on the spot to make a great cookie while more or less following a recipe. Similarly I think most people would be shocked how much a script changes daily during production. It can start as crap and end as a great script because the actors, directors, post production guys, editors said..."well wait, this isn't working at all" swallow their pride and try again.

At that point I'd hardly call it "starting with a great script."

[Stefancos]

Welcome back man!

[Chaac]

Well this is a cool read.

[Thor]

Surely, take out all the classic moments laid out in the script, see how scared people are...

If they hadn't started from it, the film would have gone nowhere. Of course, they could have ruined the script later, but I'm glad they didn't and that the film came out strong on all fronts.

The script is only one out of many ways to approach a film. For many films, script is really secondary to other concerns. ALIEN is one of those films. It operates on whole other levels.

ALIEN is more than just horror. It's more than just science fiction. It's more than just storytelling. It's a STATEMENT and a piece of audiovisual art (with all that entails).

[Quint]

Welcome back man!

I wasn't certain he was back for good, until I read "master baker" in a discussion about Alien.

[Chaac]

Surely, take out all the classic moments laid out in the script, see how scared people are...

If they hadn't started from it, the film would have gone nowhere. Of course, they could have ruined the script later, but I'm glad they didn't and that the film came out strong on all fronts.

The script is only one out of many ways to approach a film. For many films, script is really secondary to other concerns. ALIEN is one of those films. It operates on whole other levels.

ALIEN is more than just horror. It's more than just science fiction. It's more than just storytelling. It's a STATEMENT and a piece of audiovisual art (with all that entails).

Emotional language. It doesn't make you right. You're trying to pass of as the fan, I guess. Of the two of us, who has the Alien avatar?

The script is not secondary in Alien, it established the brilliant chain of events that make it happen. When they can't take the thing out of Kane's face, are you concerned about "whole other levels"? Isn't that situation a great idea? Doesn't that make the film great? I'm sorry, I don't understand how someone can say that the script is secondary in Alien.

Is Alien a "statement" about something or not? I'd take that statement as "nothing can become secondary."

Like in that dialogue in Ratatouille when Remy listed all that was very important.

[Stefancos]

I'm sure Ren's posts renewed his interest...

[Blumenkohl]

Welcome back man!

I wasn't certain he was back for good, until I read "master baker" in a discussion about Alien.

That's when I knew it for myself.

[Quint]

If you can't mix baking and xenomorphs into some sort of analogy then what else is there?

Welcome back seconded.

[KK.]

I shouldn't be in this thread, but welcome back thirded!

[Thor]

Emotional language. It doesn't make you right. You're trying to pass of as the fan, I guess. Of the two of us, who has the Alien avatar?

Well, if you wanna go down that road...

ALIEN is probably my alltime favourite movie. I've seen it maybe 30 times. TV, VHS, DVD, Blu-Ray, cinema, you name it. I've written many articles on it and studied it in my master thesis. It's one of the primary reasons for my film interest and choice of profession. I've lived and breathed it for 25 years.

So yeah, I doubt I'm any less of a fan than you.

Here's an article I wrote a while back that touches on some of these issues:

http://montages.no/2009/10/alien-1979/

It's in Norwegian, but Google Translate might allow you to get the gist of it.

As Scott himself said: ”To a large extent, Alien’s environment was a statement. And, I think, a great piece of art work”.

Storytelling (script) is a necessary component, but far from the most important. If it were, it wouldn't have been the classic it is today.

[Stefancos]

I shouldn't be in this thread, but welcome back thirded!

Go back to the shadows!

[E.T. & Elliott]

Alien is a practically perfect film. Like, everything. The way Parker flips the switch and says "we gotta reroute all of these ducts", the thing Ash does with his eyes when Ripley wants to have a talk, Lambert's messed up scream over the intercom when the Alien has its way with her, the emergency destruct voice, right down to those food containers that IKEA ripped off. It's a complete and total classic and clearly a GREAT film. Prometheus is sounding like a summer flick and yet another unworthy reboot, remake, sequel/prequel/whateverquel to a classic from a bygone era.