315 replies to this topic

[Maglorfin]

Isn't Jaws 2 virtually complete? I doubt it will see an expansion, although it may be reissued.

It could be expanded. The main title appears to be an alternate version and there are some extensions to the album cues and some unreleased bits that could be added, Plus there could always be music Williams composed that was not used at all.

I also want Jaws 2 expanded reissue, I don't even have the original, only the CD-R ... And I also very much miss both The Fury and SpaceCamp which I somehow managed to miss ... Oh, I'm depressed now.

[Josh500]

Isn't Jaws 2 virtually complete? I doubt it will see an expansion, although it may be reissued.

I meant to include reissues as well. What I'm saying is, The Fury already got the complete and limited label treatment, so the odds of that being reissued and/or remastered are a lot less likely than Jaws 2, which is an OST that's been long OOP.

I appreciate your point, but for me the deciding factor is primarily the music itself. Even though I know the Varese edition of Jaws 2 is not complete, I had to have it because I've seen the movie several times, and simply wanted to have the music. That's the most I have ever spend on a CD, I believe: about 50 bucks? (or was it even more? I honestly can't remember anymore)

If it is expanded again in the future, well... I will probably get that too.

______

OK, this has probably been mentioned ten times here, but I read this just now, on the BLACK SUNDAY release:

A final note about this release: In recent years, a limited edition of this sort would sell out quickly. FSM has negotiated with the American Federation of Musicians (whose players performed the music and are due “re-use” fees for the album) to make this CD a limited edition of 10,000 copies (not the customary 3,000)—enough so that everyone can get one. But if your response to this is, “Good, I’ll get it later”—truly no good deed goes unpunished, and we’ll never try this again! Black Sunday is John Williams action scoring circa 1977—what are you waiting for? Buy it now!

So anybody know how many copies are still left?

[Mark Olivarez]

Lukas won't say until it gets down to really low numbers.

I would imagine they've sold anywhere from 2500 to 4000 copies, possibly 5000.

[Josh500]

Wow, that's quite impressive, actually.

But I'm thinking the album will last for another 6 months or so before it sells out...

Just a feeling.

[Jason LeBlanc]

Black Sunday? That'll be in print for YEARS

In fact, I'd bet it will go out of print before it sells out

[Josh500]

Wait, what's the difference between OOP and SOLD OUT again, when it comes to limited CDs?

[Jason LeBlanc]

These labels only get the license to a film score for a certain amount of time (seems to usually be around 5 years or so). After that, even if they have unsold copies, the title is Out Of Print - they are not allowed to sell more unless they purchase another license

[Josh500]

Ahhh, OK.

Well if the license is for 5 years, I am pretty sure all 10,000 copies of BS will be sold within that time frame.

[Jason LeBlanc]

I betcha they won't be

[Trent Bennett]

I have to agree with Jason on this one. Wasn't Home Alone 2's Deluxe Edition around for quite a few years before finally selling out?

[indy4]

Well, Black Sunday had a lot more appeal than HA2. The former was an entirely unreleased score from what is considered by many to be JW's golden age. The latter already had a 1 hour OST, and it had a lot of accusations of being derivative of the first score. I still agree with Jason, I just think this distinction is worth pointing out.

[Trent Bennett]

I think FSM needs to think in terms like how La-La Land and Intrada do. Black Sunday is probably one of those obscure scores that won't click with most. It was a blind buy for me and I actually think it's not too bad at all and like it a bit.

If it was going to be a popular title then I could see it being a 10,000 unit run. Just like when Intrada released Back To The Future. Back To The Future has a more popular fan base than Black Sunday does and Intrada was able to negotiate for a 10,000 unit release.

If memory serves me right I think they are down into the 200's range now for how many copies Intrada has for BTTF.

FSM does need to make a standard like Intrada and LLL. More obscure scores like Black Sunday limit to 3,000 copies, maybe 5,000 at the most depending on the popularity of the title and how often it's been requested.

I think that's where FSM shoots themselves in the foot is because they tend to do go overboard on some of the releases for the size of the run. The Ron Jones Star Trek TNG set being a good example of this. I know Lukas poured his heart and soul into that release but the TV series scores just don't have a large fan base like the Star Trek film scores do. Personally if Lukas had limited the set to 3,000units it may have been doing better than it is now.

Speaking of Trek, we all know FSM made Star Trek's II and III's complete scores unlimited and those two are popular scores and were often requested. If I remember right I think Lukas said that both titles have sold either 5,000 or over 5,000 units each.

[indy4]

Yup, I agree. I think in a way it shows their devotion to the fans above all - they're in this to get great music released for reasonable prices, not to become billionaires. But I don't think anyone would mind if they became a little less selfless and started looking out for themselves more by only pressing enough copies that they know will sell. On the other hand, Intrada and Varese and sometimes LLL are constantly underestimating how well their titles will sell (ie SpaceCamp, Poseidon Adventure, Goonies, etc.). I think FSM may be the label that cares the most about the fans, but I don't think anyone's angry at the other labels for acting a little less selflessly.

[Josh500]

OK, Spacecamp, which had a previous release, sold 3,000 copies within 24 hours.

And Black Sunday, which had no previous release (and which is touted as a vintage JW action score of the golden 70s) won't sell 10,000 within 5 years?

[Drax]

Hard-to-get 80's scores seem to have a higher market value and demand than unreleased stuff from the 70's that fewer people have heard of. Plus, speculators probably bought up loads of SpaceCamp CDs and sat on them so their previous investments aren't devalued.

[fommes]

FSM does need to make a standard like Intrada and LLL. More obscure scores like Black Sunday limit to 3,000 copies, maybe 5,000 at the most depending on the popularity of the title and how often it's been requested.

I don't agree at all. It's Intrada and Kritzerland and the rest that should follow in FSM's footsteps. If everyone started to act a little less selfishly - like FSM - it can only be for the benefit of soundtrack collecting on CD. It's Intrada and the rest that shoots the hobby in the foot. If I was a new fan coming to the hobby now (and after teen years coming to be able to order limited editions etc.) - as opposed to a decade ago - I would soon give up, as I discovered that so many holy grails have come and gone; and I would just go with illegal downloads.

[Mark Olivarez]

If all the labels followed FSM, they might go out of business.


Film score fans may not like it, but Doug Fake, Bruce Kimmel, Robert Townson and MV Gerhard know what they are doing. And the way Lukas talks at times makes me wonder if perhaps there have been moments where FSM might have ceased to exist.

If anything Lukas needs to follow the lead of the rest of the labels when it comes to some of these lesser known or Golden age scores, and limit those to 1000 to 2000.

But i will say that the labels also know the demand for certain scores and they do take that into consideration when they can.

So it's possible Lukas knew what he was doing by making Trek II & III unlimited and allowing 10,000 for Black Sunday and Poltergeist.

[Jason LeBlanc]

The fact is that scores with a bigger, action-adventure-y, bombastic orchestral sound just sell more than quieter suspense score.

There are more than 10,000 people on this planet that want to have Back To The Future or SpaceCamp in their collections.... but there probably aren't that many that need Black Sunday or Family Plot.

[fommes]

If all the labels followed FSM, they might go out of business.

No, that's precisely my point: if all the labels followed FSM, none of them would go out of business and they would stay around longer - now, only FSM might go out of business. But this would be a long-term approach. On the short term, of course you make more money limiting CDs to 1000 copies.

[Wojo]

The Ron Jones Star Trek TNG set being a good example of this. I know Lukas poured his heart and soul into that release but the TV series scores just don't have a large fan base like the Star Trek film scores do. Personally if Lukas had limited the set to 3,000units it may have been doing better than it is now.

Is this set being advertised at the large Star Trek geek websites? A lot of Star Trek geeks may be soundtrack collectors who aren't aware of the sites like SAE and FSM that advertise them.

[Charlie Brigden]

The Ron Jones Star Trek TNG set being a good example of this. I know Lukas poured his heart and soul into that release but the TV series scores just don't have a large fan base like the Star Trek film scores do. Personally if Lukas had limited the set to 3,000units it may have been doing better than it is now.

Is this set being advertised at the large Star Trek geek websites? A lot of Star Trek geeks may be soundtrack collectors who aren't aware of the sites like SAE and FSM that advertise them.

I've seen it advertised at Trekmovie.com and I think The Digital Bits.

I personally think 1000 units would be enough for the box. I think there's a large enough fanbase there, but not for that price and this much.
Especially when your average Trekkie still has several collectible plates to buy.

[Wojo]

Ugh, I don't buy any plates I can't eat off.

[Richard Penna]

FSM does need to make a standard like Intrada and LLL. More obscure scores like Black Sunday limit to 3,000 copies, maybe 5,000 at the most depending on the popularity of the title and how often it's been requested.

I don't agree at all. It's Intrada and Kritzerland and the rest that should follow in FSM's footsteps. If everyone started to act a little less selfishly - like FSM - it can only be for the benefit of soundtrack collecting on CD. It's Intrada and the rest that shoots the hobby in the foot. If I was a new fan coming to the hobby now (and after teen years coming to be able to order limited editions etc.) - as opposed to a decade ago - I would soon give up, as I discovered that so many holy grails have come and gone; and I would just go with illegal downloads.

But the issue isn't just underestimating demand or pleasing fans; it's what they're allowed to press.

And hasn't Lukas mentioned how close to the bone FSM has come regarding liquidity? I think he said he pressed more copies of some score as they needed the money. Pleasing the fans he may be, but it's at a higher risk.

[fommes]

But the issue isn't just underestimating demand or pleasing fans; it's what they're allowed to press.

I know, but I think those are exceptions - and I don't think there are many releases where the studio is restricting labels to press only 1000 or so. 3000 perhaps, yes.

[Richard Penna]

What's the business logic behind only allowing a certain # of units anyway? Does the studio want to restrict the number of people who can own it for some reason?

[Wojo]

Two possibilities.

The first may be that the owners of the license, the studios, want to get paid as quickly for their troubles as possible. I don't know if the labels pay the studios up front for the right to sell the music, or if they pay based on how many units they sell. There would be some negotiation to reach a certain number. The studios believe (quite correctly) that this industry is a niche hobby that only appeals to a select group of consumers, not the general public. These albums are not sold en masse to brick and mortar shops worldwide, but only in a select few online outlets. By placing a finite number of units for sale, they limit supply. This gives consumers only a limited amount of time in which to buy these albums, which increases demand. The quicker they sell out, the quicker the labels make back their investment.

I'm not sure what happened to the soundtrack industry overall that signified the end of selling mass marketed expanded soundtracks in stores -- Star Wars SE comes to mind, and I'm grateful for TLOTR: CR -- but the online labels have inherited the majority of this niche.

The other possibility is that the studios are simply establishing and enforcing a rule on the contract. Their limit on the number of physical media is no different than the requirement that car tires be black: we say jump, you say how high.

[Charlie Brigden]

I'm not sure what happened to the soundtrack industry overall that signified the end of selling mass marketed expanded soundtracks in stores -- Star Wars SE comes to mind, and I'm grateful for TLOTR: CR -- but the online labels have inherited the majority of this niche.

I'd guess because a lot of our grails as such were recorded in England, where as far as I remember, the rules are a lot different and you can get away with doing a lot more for a lot less, as opposed to US-recorded scores. So SW, Raiders, The Omen trilogy, Poltergeist, LOTR, Superman, we could have all these in stores as unlimited releases because the fees were a lot less.

[Jason LeBlanc]

Bingo.

[indy4]

Amazing Stories Anthologies 1 and 3 are sold out (at least at Intrada)! I think Anthology 2 may also be gone. It says "Sold Out!" on the description, but it is still possible to add it to one's cart, and it says "Out of Stock" next to the title.

[Jason LeBlanc]

Hope everyone got them while they could!

[Koray Savas]

Nope.

[Josh500]

Hope everyone got them while they could!

Nope.

But then, I never intended to get them...

I hear they're good, but 90 bucks for 3 CDs, and maybe only an hour of JW material in total... ?

[Richard Penna]

You're not just getting JW material you know...

[Koray Savas]

I'd rather put those 90 bucks towards the Blue Box, or 4 other scores...

[Josh500]

I'd rather put those 90 bucks towards the Blue Box, or 4 other scores...

Yes. And I already bought 6 or 7 JW albums this month anyway, so...

[tjguitar]

There are more than 10,000 people on this planet that want to have Back To The Future or SpaceCamp in their collections....

I doubt there are more than 10,000 people who want to have the CD to Spacecamp.

In other news, it appears that Monsignor has finally sold out. Still some discounted at Amazon.

[Jason LeBlanc]

Alrighty then. Main post updated to indicate that all 3 Amazing Stories volumes, as well as Monsignor are sold out

If you want them and can find them at another retailer, buy them now!

[E.T. & Elliott]

Kind of on the fence with Amazing Stories 2. I want it for completeness sake, but not for $30.

[Jason LeBlanc]

At this point, the price will only go up over time

[Josh500]

At this point, the price will only go up over time

Hmmm, I never quite understood this logic.

So you're saying, buy it now, enjoy the music, and then sell the album in a year or three for 50 bucks?