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Star Wars Prequel Music Resource (part 2)


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#41 Luke Skywalker

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Posted 15 October 2010 - 12:36 PM

Definitely from the movie. But I find it hard to believe that missing material doesn't have a backup in some Lucas warehouse. It's got to be out there.


As with the harry potter trailer music, Lucasfilm lent the master tapes of the sail barge source for a TV show or doc about star wars. and there were lost, broken or never returned.


BUt why do they lend Master tapes???

I hope Episode III is Called 'Revenge of the Sith'

#42 Jim Ware

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Posted 15 October 2010 - 03:25 PM

I'm certain Forest Mist is a cue, but I've just seen Jim Ware below me say that it is. As for the UE Gungan's March... that's just an insert with reverb over where the real March begins. It's a separate cue, but I still have no idea where it goes. It is heard cleanly, without the single horn blasts (A Ben Burtt addition, I'm sure) on Track 14, whcih brings us to...


The UE 'Gungans March' is 'Drums Insert' and replaces most of the tail-end of 'Forest Mist' (you can hear the very end of 'Forest Mist' after 'Drums Insert' finishes).

Considering the Droid Invasion follows The Armies Face Off, followed by Tentacles, High Council Meeting Alternate, Darth Sidious and then the opening moments of DOTF, I wouldn't put too much stock in the OST's order. As I said I believe this is an insert piece. As to where it is to be inserted, I do not know. One theory of mine is that it preceeds Forest Mist and goes straight after War Plans, so we see the Gungans marching to battle before Sidious receives the news of the army, then Forest Mist kicks in with the Trade Federation Army responding. This theory also says that this is the Forest Mist piece, but I'm absolutely unsure of it.


The OST does at least put part of 'The Armies Face Off' in the correct place - immediately after 'Drums Insert'. The rest of the cue isn't on the OST, but can be heard (edited) on the UE as 'The Queen and Group Sneak Back Into the Palace'.

#43 Krang

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Posted 15 October 2010 - 05:06 PM


Definitely from the movie. But I find it hard to believe that missing material doesn't have a backup in some Lucas warehouse. It's got to be out there.


As with the harry potter trailer music, Lucasfilm lent the master tapes of the sail barge source for a TV show or doc about star wars. and there were lost, broken or never returned.


BUt why do they lend Master tapes???



Well maybe if it couldn't be located on time 16 years ago, they've found it since then. But since they haven't made any changes to the SE soundtracks in those 14 years, it just hasn't surfaced. That's my desperate clingy hope and I'm sticking to it! ;)

#44 Eblobulator

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Posted 15 October 2010 - 06:45 PM

The UE 'Gungans March' is 'Drums Insert' and replaces most of the tail-end of 'Forest Mist' (you can hear the very end of 'Forest Mist' after 'Drums Insert' finishes).



That's confusing to say the least...

So the "Drums Insert" would go before "Forest Mist", right after "War Plans" (from the U.E.) as ggtuck suggested?

Damn it we need sheet music for this score.

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#45 Faleel

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Posted 15 October 2010 - 07:08 PM

has anybody been able to get the complete score of The Clone Wars?

whoops! wrong thread!

Among all the things I have done in my short and pitiful life, becoming an inside joke on JWFAN is the one I'm the least proud of.


The additional passage was interesting but not really something I would consider absolutely essential.


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#46 Gareth Thomas

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Posted 15 October 2010 - 07:15 PM

We're not here to discuss the Clone Wars. Music only from Episode I, II, and III.

#47 Faleel

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Posted 15 October 2010 - 07:17 PM

so i guess we need a clone wars thread?

Among all the things I have done in my short and pitiful life, becoming an inside joke on JWFAN is the one I'm the least proud of.


The additional passage was interesting but not really something I would consider absolutely essential.


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#48 king mark

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Posted 15 October 2010 - 07:30 PM

so i guess we need a clone wars thread?



you'll be the only one posting in it

#49 Jay

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Posted 15 October 2010 - 07:34 PM

zing!

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#50 Faleel

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Posted 15 October 2010 - 07:41 PM

and why would i be?

Among all the things I have done in my short and pitiful life, becoming an inside joke on JWFAN is the one I'm the least proud of.


The additional passage was interesting but not really something I would consider absolutely essential.


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#51 Eblobulator

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Posted 15 October 2010 - 08:18 PM

Well I tackled on "Drums Insert" at the end of "War Plans" and it flows very well into the "Drums Insert" piece. So perhaps you are right about its placement ggtuck.

Edit: Also judging from the movie, I bet "Forest Mist" and "The Armies Face Off" were recorded as separate cues. I say this because there seems to be a bit of a gap on when "The Armies Face Off" should start. Or unless there's more unused music between those two cues that we do not have yet.

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#52 fommes

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Posted 15 October 2010 - 08:23 PM

Gave up on doing TPM myself a long time ago, it's soooo complicated. Been relying on other people's updated edits!


This thread is like Agatha Christie's Ten Little Niggers ;)

#53 Eblobulator

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Posted 15 October 2010 - 08:45 PM

Actually expanding on what I said earlier about the gap between "Forest Mist" and "The Armies Face Off", I wonder if "Drums Insert" actually goes right after "Forest Mist". That might be the missing music that would play when the Gungans activate the shield and we see the Droid tanks and that coming down the hill then releasing all their battle droids.

We also know too that whole portion was shuffled around from after that one droid said, "Open fire!". So again referring to what I said about the OST having the correct placement.

Edit: I did a test, I ripped the audio only portion of that sequence from TPM DVD and used the OST edit to add the missing music from track 14. The "Drums Insert" would actually start right after the tanks lower the battle droids from their holds. So it seems the OST definitely did have it right for that sequence and "Forest Mist" would end right before the Gungans activated their shield.

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#54 Jay

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Posted 15 October 2010 - 09:20 PM

Gave up on doing TPM myself a long time ago, it's soooo complicated. Been relying on other people's updated edits!


This thread is like Agatha Christie's Ten Little Niggers ;)


Um, what?

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#55 Wycket

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Posted 15 October 2010 - 11:17 PM

Its the original title of "And Then There Were None."

#56 John Crichton

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Posted 15 October 2010 - 11:40 PM

I thought it was Ten Little Indians. Or am I thinking of something else?
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#57 Eblobulator

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Posted 16 October 2010 - 01:43 AM

According to Wiki it's both titles.

http://en.wikipedia....There_Were_None

Anyways let's not get off track here for this thread.

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#58 Eblobulator

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Posted 18 October 2010 - 06:38 PM

I forgot to report, I had played the demo for The Force Unleashed II. I was able to lower the voices and sound effects in the menu options for the demo. All though I wasn't able to completely mute it but the demo for the first Force Unleashed game was like that as well. Anyways, the point is that the voices and sound effects were even lowered in the cut scenes.

I hope that it will be like that for the actual retail version too. I'd love to be able to record music during the cut scenes as well. That's one thing I hated about the first Force Unleashed game as the sound effects and voices weren't lowered even in the cut scenes.

I'll find out next Tuesday when I get it from Amazon. ROTFLMAO

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#59 Gareth Thomas

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Posted 18 October 2010 - 08:26 PM

We have to wait until the 29th to get it but I'm sure by then somebody will have ripped it.

#60 Eblobulator

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Posted 20 October 2010 - 02:37 AM

Hey guys I have been thinking about the synth material we hear on track 14 of the TPM OST from 3:19-3:44ish. I believe that is the right spot for that piece. We know that the previous cue "Gone Fishin" (before Darth Sidious) was looped a couple of times at the end of the cue in the film. So the cue "Gone Fishin" should have ended a bit earlier than what it does in the film. Then that synth piece would come in and flow right into "Darth Sidious" like it does on the OST.

Initially I thought the synth piece may have gone before "High Council Meeting" since one of the games (can't quite remember which) had it such but now I don't think it was meant for that cue but actually for the beginning of "Darth Sidious".

I'm pretty sure the OST has "Drums Insert" correct as far as placement goes. So it would go "Forest Mist" with a clean ending, then "Drums Insert" and that would segue into "The Armies Face Off". My test with the TPM DVD audio would conclude that, especially since quite a bit of that section was shuffled around.

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#61 Faleel

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Posted 20 October 2010 - 02:50 AM



Battle of the Heroes No Choir

Among all the things I have done in my short and pitiful life, becoming an inside joke on JWFAN is the one I'm the least proud of.


The additional passage was interesting but not really something I would consider absolutely essential.


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#62 Datameister

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Posted 20 October 2010 - 04:00 AM

Thanks for the link! If only it were from the original LSO recordings, though... ;)

#63 Eblobulator

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Posted 20 October 2010 - 07:34 AM

Thanks for the link! If only it were from the original LSO recordings, though... ;)


Gotta agree with Data on this one.

Actually one thing I'm sorta still miffed over is that we have yet to have the entire choir-less version of Duel Of The Fates. I mean we have I would say about 98% of it but there's still a couple of sections that have not surfaced in the games. It's kind of hard to edit together when there is still material missing.

I will say though that re-recording is not bad at all.

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#64 Gareth Thomas

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Posted 20 October 2010 - 08:16 AM

We don't even have 98% of the choirless take of Duel of the Fates. The material around 2:56-3:02 on the album is as I have said before a loop of a later piece of the instrumental (3:55.5-4:01.5)

I disagree with your theory on the synth stuff. I've matched the original score to the film and I even tried to place it in there. it didn't fit very well. You have to remember that while the film does indeed loop a part of "Gone Fishin'" it also removes a part of it too (1:04.5 in UE D1 T10). It doesn't quite fit, nor does it fit the scene very well IMO (of them sailing away as the giant fish thing eats the smaller fish). The melody of this piece actually seems to match High Council Meeting so I think it's simply an alternate piece, it may not be an insert at all. Either that or the High Council meeting scene was originally longer. The script seems to have a few lines omitted from the movie but without seeing the full scene I cannot say for certain. I am sure, however, that is is either a part of or an alternate to High Council Meeting.

I'm still not certain myself about Drums Insert. I've placed it before Forest mist in my edit.

#65 Richard

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Posted 20 October 2010 - 08:48 AM

Its the original title of "And Then There Were None."

I prefer "...and then there were three..." :lol:

#66 Luke Skywalker

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Posted 20 October 2010 - 02:18 PM


Thanks for the link! If only it were from the original LSO recordings, though... :lol:


Gotta agree with Data on this one.

Actually one thing I'm sorta still miffed over is that we have yet to have the entire choir-less version of Duel Of The Fates. I mean we have I would say about 98% of it but there's still a couple of sections that have not surfaced in the games. It's kind of hard to edit together when there is still material missing.

I will say though that re-recording is not bad at all.



mmm i think that may be an alterarion of the original Williams' ROTS cue, with the inverse wave trick to get rid of the choir?

I hope Episode III is Called 'Revenge of the Sith'

#67 Eblobulator

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Posted 20 October 2010 - 05:43 PM

Actually Luke it is a re-recording. I downloaded it from iTunes last night and the guy on Youtube sped it up to get it close to the original recording speed.

Edit: ggtuck we nearly have all of the choir-less version of DOTF. There's parts scattered through out the games..BF 2 (I believe), Jedi Power Battles and a few others. Going from the times of the original version we have material from 0:00-2:41 with out the choir.

Then from 3:20-3:41 then from 4:01 to the end. From 2:41-3:20 then from 3:41-4:01 are the only sections we don't have with out the choir. Those sections keep getting omitted from the games for some weird reason.

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#68 Gareth Thomas

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Posted 20 October 2010 - 05:53 PM

I have a theory on that. I don't think LucasArts has the whole orchestral version of Duel of the Fates. Notice in the ads and in-game when it moves to material matching the album up to 2:07 it either cycles back or gets cut off by another cue?

#69 Datameister

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Posted 20 October 2010 - 06:05 PM

mmm i think that may be an alterarion of the original Williams' ROTS cue, with the inverse wave trick to get rid of the choir?


As Trent said, it's definitely a different recording. The performance isn't as slick as the LSO's. ;) There's no way to eliminate the choir unless you've got the audio of the choir singing alone (or the choir is in mono).

#70 Gareth Thomas

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Posted 20 October 2010 - 06:09 PM

Even then you'd have to mix the choral exactly the same way it is in the actual track. This is why we cannot isolate the war drums from Battlefront II in the Boys Into battle, Enter Lord Vader and They're Coming Around tracks - because although the waveform is similar it is not identical to the underlying track.

#71 Luke Skywalker

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Posted 20 October 2010 - 06:25 PM

Boys into battle was meant to have drums...

or so i want to believe ;)

I hope Episode III is Called 'Revenge of the Sith'

#72 Gareth Thomas

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Posted 20 October 2010 - 06:28 PM

Yeah, but I think the taiko drums were recorded separately. I can't see Williams dropping them from the album if they were recorded at the same time.

#73 Datameister

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Posted 20 October 2010 - 06:55 PM

The taiko drum part isn't in the sheet music. There's a "big Japanese drum" part, but it only plays during the opening measures, and it's not just the same "1.......3...1.......3...1.......3..." rhythm over and over again. I haven't seen the sheet music for "They're Coming Around", but my guess is that the taiko part we hear was written and recorded for that cue, and then it got reused in "Boys Into Battle." Also, there's no taiko in the sheet music for "Anakin's Dark Deeds", which leads me to believe that all the film version taiko drums were added editorially. (Except "They're Coming Around", of course.) They weren't part of Williams' intentions for the music.

#74 Henry Buck

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Posted 20 October 2010 - 07:21 PM

The taiko drum part isn't in the sheet music. There's a "big Japanese drum" part, but it only plays during the opening measures, as it's not just the same "1.......3...1.......3...1.......3..." rhythm over and over again. I haven't seen the sheet music for "They're Coming Around", but my guess is that the taiko part we hear was written and recorded for that cue, and then it got reused in "Boys Into Battle." Also, there's no taiko in the sheet music for "Anakin's Dark Deeds", which leads me to believe that all the film version taiko drums were added editorially. (Except "They're Coming Around", of course.) They weren't part of Williams' intentions for the music.

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#75 Faleel

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Posted 20 October 2010 - 07:25 PM

even if they were not originally meant to be there, i think it makes it epic-er for the example the music when anakin goes to mustafar the album version sounds kind of flat compared to the film



also i am the "guy on youtube" that edited the Battle of the Heroes Choir-less

Among all the things I have done in my short and pitiful life, becoming an inside joke on JWFAN is the one I'm the least proud of.


The additional passage was interesting but not really something I would consider absolutely essential.


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#76 Eblobulator

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Posted 20 October 2010 - 11:24 PM

I actually agree with Faleel. While the drums are not intended for those other cues they do seem pretty lifeless with out them. At least that's my opinion.

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#77 Henry Buck

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 12:20 AM

I actually agree with Faleel. While the drums are not intended for those other cues they do seem pretty lifeless with out them. At least that's my opinion.

While they're not the most lively cues in my opinion, adding drums doesn't help. The drums are particularly offensive in "Anakin vs. Obi-Wan"/"Heroes Collide" because they actually change the beat of the music to a syncopated kind of beat that isn't at all like Williams.

#78 Datameister

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 12:40 AM

While they're not the most lively cues in my opinion, adding drums doesn't help. The drums are particularly offensive in "Anakin vs. Obi-Wan"/"Heroes Collide" because they actually change the beat of the music to a syncopated kind of beat that isn't at all like Williams.


;)

Aside from that use, I do rather like the taikos, at least if I'm in the right mood. But I'm all about composers' original intentions these days, and I let that dictate how I do my edits.

#79 Eblobulator

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 01:17 AM

Even the drums in "Heroes Collide", I prefer at least only the beginning portion before reprise of "Through The Window" (from ESB) plays.

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#80 Krang

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 01:29 AM

Hey guys I have been thinking about the synth material we hear on track 14 of the TPM OST from 3:19-3:44ish. I believe that is the right spot for that piece. We know that the previous cue "Gone Fishin" (before Darth Sidious) was looped a couple of times at the end of the cue in the film. So the cue "Gone Fishin" should have ended a bit earlier than what it does in the film. Then that synth piece would come in and flow right into "Darth Sidious" like it does on the OST.

Initially I thought the synth piece may have gone before "High Council Meeting" since one of the games (can't quite remember which) had it such but now I don't think it was meant for that cue but actually for the beginning of "Darth Sidious".


This has been my belief also.




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