1605 replies to this topic

[Faleel]

Even the drums in "Heroes Collide", I prefer at least only the beginning portion before reprise of "Through The Window" (from ESB) plays.

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=KVTrN87K2FU

i really like the taiko portion at 3:04 in this video

[Trent Bennett]

Okay for that portion of those drums from 3:04 onwards til the end of the cue were clearly added editorially and that portion actually isn't that great for the cue. Especially when Anakin chokes Obi-Wan.

From the beginning up until about 1:36 in that video is what I was talking about before hand is what I like.

[Henry Buck]

Even the drums in "Heroes Collide", I prefer at least only the beginning portion before reprise of "Through The Window" (from ESB) plays.

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=KVTrN87K2FU

i really like the taiko portion at 3:04 in this video

Terrible. The drums fall completely off track at points. I hope this is just somebody's synth mock-up and not how it's actually heard in the film. Even if the film version is more carefully mixed and synchronized, I don't like the addition in principle. The music was complete without drums. It's not as malleable and layered as, say, Giacchino's Star Trek, a score that had some fun and pulse pounding drum additions. Williams' music is too precise to just have other stuff thrown over it or taken off. That's why I don't really like "orchestra only" or "choir only" edits; they feel incomplete.

[Trent Bennett]

Henry,

That guy practically replicated the drums 100% to sync with the spots as they are heard in the film. Well at least from 1:36 onwards. It's actually the best reproduction I've heard.

Anyways, for Star Trek we all know Chris Tilton did do the drum over dubs. For some cues it actually helps (IE: Hella Bar Talk, Chutes and Matter, Scotty's Tanked, etc...). For the most part though I do definitely prefer the score with out them.

[Luke Skywalker]

The taiko drum part isn't in the sheet music. There's a "big Japanese drum" part, but it only plays during the opening measures, and it's not just the same "1.......3...1.......3...1.......3..." rhythm over and over again. I haven't seen the sheet music for "They're Coming Around", but my guess is that the taiko part we hear was written and recorded for that cue, and then it got reused in "Boys Into Battle." Also, there's no taiko in the sheet music for "Anakin's Dark Deeds", which leads me to believe that all the film version taiko drums were added editorially. (Except "They're Coming Around", of course.) They weren't part of Williams' intentions for the music.

that just ruined my day...


what opening measures are you talking about? what cue?

I really only like the taikos in the Battle above coruscant, in the rest of cues it sounds artificial. but in heroes collide begining (0-0:23, 1:10-1:36) it sounds real,or i am too acustomed to it... (EDIT: hearing the CD cue.. those drums are there...maybe the film version is a different mix, with more prominence of them?)

BTW, in boys into battle, the overdub just makes it 'boom--boom-tzzzz....boom--boom-tzzzz' so if in other cues the drums must be dismissed because it is not williamsy... in this case it clearly is one of his trademarks....

Anybody noticed that the taiko ovelay is the same rythm featured in the Isengard/uruk hai leitmotif?

[Datameister]

I'm talking about "Boys Into Battle." Basically, none of the taiko drums you hear in the film version are in the sheet music. There's a taiko part for the passages leading up to the first statement of the Force theme, but it's different. I think it got buried pretty well in the mix, and then they added the much louder taiko part from "They're Coming Around" later on. So again, all evidence points to the film versions of "Boys Into Battle" and "Anakin's Dark Deeds" not having taiko parts originally. Unfortunately, no sheet music is available for "They're Coming Around", "Moving Things Along", "Heroes Collide", and so forth, but the most reasonable assumption (IMO) is that the taiko part was only intended to be used in "They're Coming Around."

And yes, I noticed that the rhythm is similar to the one from LOTR - in fact, that's the very first thing I thought of when I heard the cue for the first time. It's not exactly the same, though...this rhythm is in 3/4, whereas the one from LOTR is in 5/4.

[Luke Skywalker]

i cannot make the difference between 3/4 or 5/4

How woud Boys into battle sound with those taikos from the sheet?

[Datameister]

In 3/4, it goes 1....2....3....1....2....3....

In 5/4, it goes 1...2...3...4...5...1...2...3...4...5...

Similar, but not the same.

As for the written taiko part, it's similar, just a little more complicated and a little less repetitive.

Then again, I dunno...maybe they just changed the part on the recording stage. I mean, you can still hear the rhythm from the film version in the album version...it's just a lot quieter in the mix. I dunno, it's really hard to say...

[Jason LeBlanc]

In 3/4, it goes 1....2....3....1....2....3....

In 5/4, it goes 1...2...3...4...5...1...2...3...4...5...

This is why I don't understand music.... this makes no sense to me at all

If they are both x / 4, shouldn't there be something in common among their patterns?

[Datameister]

Ah, that can cause confusion - it's not a fraction. I know I wrote it like one, but in actual sheet music, they just appear as two numbers, one over the other, with no line between them. Like this:



The top number indicates how many beats there are per measure. So there are 3 beats per measure in the ROTS rhythm, and 5 in the LOTR rhythm. The bottom number just indicates which type of note constitutes one beat. The 4 stands for quarter note, which looks like this:



So if you've got one piece in 3/4 and one piece in 5/4, the only reason they share the 4 in common is because they both use quarter notes as beats.

But to make all this more complicated...I'm realizing now that "Boys Into Battle" is written in 3/2, not 3/4, and "They're Coming Around" probably was, too. But that really doesn't change the way the music sounds at all; the rhythms just get written a little differently. Not really worth explaining.

[Faleel]

Even the drums in "Heroes Collide", I prefer at least only the beginning portion before reprise of "Through The Window" (from ESB) plays.

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=KVTrN87K2FU

i really like the taiko portion at 3:04 in this video

Terrible. The drums fall completely off track at points. I hope this is just somebody's synth mock-up and not how it's actually heard in the film. Even if the film version is more carefully mixed and synchronized, I don't like the addition in principle. The music was complete without drums. It's not as malleable and layered as, say, Giacchino's Star Trek, a score that had some fun and pulse pounding drum additions. Williams' music is too precise to just have other stuff thrown over it or taken off. That's why I don't really like "orchestra only" or "choir only" edits; they feel incomplete.

according to the video uploader:

"This is the ONLY film accurate mix in existence that tracks exactly to the video sequence, as shown here, with accurately timed and reproduced drums and all cues recreated and placed correctly. All of the other mixes floating around are timed incorrectly and have a lot of errors and missing cue segments, which was why I made this mix in the first place. I am looking for a clean cue without effects for the segment when Yoda drops into Bail's ship at the very end of the clip. If anyone has a copy of that segment without effects, please contact me"

[Jason LeBlanc]

Ah, that can cause confusion - it's not a fraction. I know I wrote it like one, but in actual sheet music, they just appear as two numbers, one over the other, with no line between them. Like this:



The top number indicates how many beats there are per measure. So there are 3 beats per measure in the ROTS rhythm, and 5 in the LOTR rhythm. The bottom number just indicates which type of note constitutes one beat. The 4 stands for quarter note, which looks like this:



So if you've got one piece in 3/4 and one piece in 5/4, the only reason they share the 4 in common is because they both use quarter notes as beats.

But to make all this more complicated...I'm realizing now that "Boys Into Battle" is written in 3/2, not 3/4, and "They're Coming Around" probably was, too. But that really doesn't change the way the music sounds at all; the rhythms just get written a little differently. Not really worth explaining.

Alright, so why does 3/4 hit on the 1st and 3rd quarter notes, but 5/4 hits on the 1st and 4th quarter notes?

[Datameister]

Purely because that's the way Williams and Shore wrote the two pieces. It's not an inherent quality of those time signatures or anything. They could have written any rhythm they wanted within those frameworks.

[Jason LeBlanc]

Ahhhh....... ok.

[Henry Buck]

Even the drums in "Heroes Collide", I prefer at least only the beginning portion before reprise of "Through The Window" (from ESB) plays.

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=KVTrN87K2FU

i really like the taiko portion at 3:04 in this video

Terrible. The drums fall completely off track at points. I hope this is just somebody's synth mock-up and not how it's actually heard in the film. Even if the film version is more carefully mixed and synchronized, I don't like the addition in principle. The music was complete without drums. It's not as malleable and layered as, say, Giacchino's Star Trek, a score that had some fun and pulse pounding drum additions. Williams' music is too precise to just have other stuff thrown over it or taken off. That's why I don't really like "orchestra only" or "choir only" edits; they feel incomplete.

according to the video uploader:

"This is the ONLY film accurate mix in existence that tracks exactly to the video sequence, as shown here, with accurately timed and reproduced drums and all cues recreated and placed correctly. All of the other mixes floating around are timed incorrectly and have a lot of errors and missing cue segments, which was why I made this mix in the first place. I am looking for a clean cue without effects for the segment when Yoda drops into Bail's ship at the very end of the clip. If anyone has a copy of that segment without effects, please contact me"

That is... unfortunate.

[Luke Skywalker]

Then again, I dunno...maybe they just changed the part on the recording stage. I mean, you can still hear the rhythm from the film version in the album version...it's just a lot quieter in the mix. I dunno, it's really hard to say...

I think that the taikos, being to loud as they are, like chorus is sometimes, were recorded sepparately, and what we hear in the OST is played with soft timpani as a temp track to sync the overdubs.

Maybe williams wanted not to use the taikos in the ost (his infamous microedits....) for it not being too prominent and left only them in 'they are coming around'.

Probably, so we can hear his unused opening without the distortion of the drums.

Hey i noticed that in the file from Battlefront II, the very opening starts with a several rapid beats segment and then does for the 3/4 pattern thing. That is what can be heard in the OST too. (i thought it was just the 3/4 beat imposed).

[ggctuk]

Then again, I dunno...maybe they just changed the part on the recording stage. I mean, you can still hear the rhythm from the film version in the album version...it's just a lot quieter in the mix. I dunno, it's really hard to say...

I think that the taikos, being to loud as they are, like chorus is sometimes, were recorded sepparately, and what we hear in the OST is played with soft timpani as a temp track to sync the overdubs.

Maybe williams wanted not to use the taikos in the ost (his infamous microedits....) for it not being too prominent and left only them in 'they are coming around'.

Probably, so we can hear his unused opening without the distortion of the drums.

Notice in the OST version of They're Coming Around that in the third section with the taiko drums (the part which he cut back slightly) the drums are much quieter than on the rest of the track. Also notice how the drums actually sound different in both Boys into battle and They're Coming Around, also in Enter Lord Vader. One might argue that it's pitch-up or pitch-down but it certainly doesn't sound so.

[Luke Skywalker]

there are different sizes of taikos i think. maybe he didnt want to use the same sound...

[Datameister]

I think that the taikos, being to loud as they are, like chorus is sometimes, were recorded sepparately...

Whatever the case, this is definitely true. In fact, some or all of the percussion for this score was apparently recorded separately - keep in mind, for instance, that the OST version of "The Elevator Scene" and the film version of "I Am the Senate" omit some snare/field drum rhythms that are most definitely in the sheet music. In both cases, the missing percussion has shown up in game files, exactly as written.

[Trent Bennett]

Regarding "Boys Into Battle" as we've stated before you can barely hear them on the OST but they are there. As Data suggested they probably use a different rythum than what's presented in the game material.

I know we all have our own personal preferences to how things are mixed. I do go for the intended edition of how scores are edited (especially Star Wars). In this case for Revenge Of The Sith, I definitely prefer the over dubs in those cues. I know most of you don't but that's okay too, again it's your own preference.

Edit: Also for "Heroes Collide" I'm pretty sure those drums are meant to be there, at least until the second statement of the Imperial March comes in. You can barely hear the drums on the OST as well. The film version mix not only allows those drums to be properly heard but also allows the chime at about 0:41 into the cue (OST timing) to be a lot more prominent than what's heard on the OST.

[Alexander]

Public requests for unofficially released materials are not permitted, please use the PM system. Thank you. -John

[Delorean90]

That isolated score video just makes me think more than ever that the whole sequence up until Duel of the Fates got jacked up in editing somehow--that rumored bit where Anakin was throwing stuff has to be real. The music just doesn't make sense with what's going on half the time, and the section from ESB literally feels like an unknowledgeable YouTube nerd's fanedit.

[Trent Bennett]

I just watched both the good side and dark side endings for the TFU 2 game. Towards the end of the dark side ending video I heard some more clean music from "Padmè's Visit" that we don't have.

I'm really hoping the sound effects and voices will actually stay muted this time when you mute both of them.

I'll have TFU 2 tomorrow from Amazon and I'm really looking forward to it now.

[Trent Bennett]

I've been playing this and so far I do hear a few new pieces. All though I won't do any recording until I initially beat the game. Then I'll go back through and do recording. A lot of the material though is recycled from TFU with TFU 2 material thrown in.

[king mark]

Trent what new unreleased music have you heard yet?

[Trent Bennett]

Really not a whole lot. It's mostly been The Force Unleashed 2 stuff with a few bits of recycled stuff from previously along with OT material strung in. Then again I really haven't been paying too much attention to the music while playing. After I beat the game I'll go back through and lower the voices and sfx and do the recording of the music.

I suspect a rip of the disc will be better for this matter.

[Trent Bennett]

I'm actually hearing the piece when Obi-Wan "interviews" Jango and I think it maybe the full entire piece. I'll have to go back through this entire game and do some recording. If I can solve my recording problem.

[Wojo]

Well if someone can figure out how to extract music from the 10 gigs of .BIK files, I'll buy the PC version of TFU 2.

The 25 gigs of TFU 1 on my computer aren't doing me any good, because I have no idea how to isolate the music.

[Trent Bennett]

I heard more chunks of "Zam The Assassin" especially the part with Shmi's theme when Anakin says he's not sleeping well. In fact I think it was nearly the whole sequence. Unfortunately my damn Y audio cable is shot so I have to buy a new one. I'm going to see if my dad can check the electronic section at Wally World tonight and see if they have one. If not I'll pick one up from Newegg.

Regards to the "Interview With Jango" I think it may have been the entire cue.

[John Crichton]

Wow, I haven't touched any of my prequels edits in years. Might have to whip out AotC and redo it again if we've gotten that stuff.

[steb74]

Good work Trent, finally AOTC may get the chance to be fleshed out a little more

[Trent Bennett]

Thanks steb. I just heard some more of "Death Of Dooku", particularly the part when Palpatine said, "Remember what you told me about your mother and the sandpeople?" and we hear the cry of the Sand people. It was right when Anakin freed Palpatine from his shackles. Then it should go into the material right after that which we have clean. Damn there's more AOTC and ROTS music showing up later on in this game now. I hope it continues!

[steb74]

Damn there's more AOTC and ROTS music showing up later on in this game now. I hope it continues!

Great man, no sleep allowed though until you've beat the game
I really hope a clean 'Padmé's Visit' turns up!

[fommes]

Good news! Keep us 'updated' on the new music.

[Trent Bennett]

If I'm unable to get a new Y audio cable tonight I'll have to wait until I get a new one from Amazon which will be here this weekend. If someone is able to do any recording between now and then while I'm unable to that would be fine with me.

[Luke Skywalker]

yeah excellent

[Trent Bennett]

I thought I heard "Padmè's Visit" when I watched the Dark Side video but I think it was just "Lament".

I need to play the Dark Side ending to see if the music for the "End Credits" is different like it was for the first TFU game.

Over all there just didn't seem to be much Prequel stuff in this game. A lot of OT and mostly TFU 2 material. Hopefully PC or PS3 rips will provide better insight for those though.

Edit: Also I heard some of "I Am The Senate", primarily towards the end with the unused statement of the love theme!

Holy shit the "Dark Side' end credits are different! It opens up with a clean version of "It Can't Be!". In fact it's the whole damn cue!!!! Yay for no more rear channel rips of that cue! It even has some unused bits towards the beginning.

I just ordered a new Y Audio cable from Amazon and I'll have it on Saturday. I will get this music recorded by the end of this weekend for sure!

I think the piece I heard for "I Am The Senate" will have a tiny bit of dialogue but that's unavoidable. The damn dialogue and sfx won't fully be silent even when turned all the way down.

[king mark]

wow that's pretty cool

I was hoping for Palpatine's Big Pitch though, that section with the low choir were missing

[Trent Bennett]

Ya I was too, who knows maybe actual rips of the game itself will reveal much more music than what was heard during game play.

Okay a bit of note it seems my Y audio cable slitter is definitely shot. However, doing some goggling lead me to reveal that all I have to get is a 3.5mm dual stereo adapter and I can plug my PS3 audio cable directly into the back of my computer. That will have clearer audio recording than recording it from the back of the TV.

I'll see if my dad's store (Wal-Mart) will have them tomorrow, if not I'll go to Best Buy and get one.

Also the cue "Interview With Jango" is not the complete cue. It's about I would say 98% of it. Judging from the edits too it's the film version (aka Ultimate Edition) of the cue. It's better than having it mostly with sound effects and dialogue though.

[ggctuk]

I'm keeping an ear to the ground for a TFU2 rip, hopefully from VGM Legacy like they did with TFU. Shame there's no PSP version as that might have been easier to rip