406 replies to this topic

[Maurizio]

It seems Williams always writes and records several different End Credits cues, sometimes just substituting a solo part with another instrument (see Schindler's List, Munich and Stepmom as well) or making a slightly different arrangement. I guess it's just to give the filmmakers more options to use (he probably knows directors are usually uncertain about these kind of things, so he prefers to give them more options and get the work finished).

[GoodMusician]

Maybe that's why Williams never has been fired off of a project. He anticipates the needs of a director so well that they couldn't/wouldn't fire him because before they can say something, he's alreday made an alternate or said "try this instead."

[Michael]

Maybe that's why Williams never has been fired off of a project. He anticipates the needs of a director so well that they couldn't/wouldn't fire him because before they can say something, he's alreday made an alternate or said "try this instead."

More composers should do that.

[Richard Penna]

You're not going to get thrown off a film because they don't like the solo instrument you used. Things are so easily re-recorded these days (plus, rejecting a score requires recording a new one anyway... far better to just re-record parts of the one you *almost* like).

Unless Williams automatically writes 3 totally different approaches to every cue he thinks the director may not like, I don't think there's much in this theory.

[Luke Skywalker]

maybe williams recrded the TLW end credits because it's a concert version he had not recorded with the previous score.

Like using throne room in ROTS

[GoodMusician]

Sounds like a possibility heh... agreed

[Demondm810]

lol I didn't like the throne room in ROTS, but your hypothesis is sound, and I agree.

[Datameister]

Here's my mockup of the unused end of "High Bar and Ceiling Tiles." In the film, this was replaced by tracked statements of the Lost World theme. I used a combination of Finale mockups and identical material from "The Raptors Appear." To edit this into the DVD rip, the initial timpani should enter right as the Lost World theme starts. Then the quiet horn after all the Lost World stuff comes in over the last cello/bass note in the mockup.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=9SGIVQUK

Enjoy! Of course, there's a lot of other little missing pieces earlier in the cue, but those work better if you just re-create them from material used in the film.

EDIT: Also, just FYI...I think there's a lot of material missing from the first half of "Rialto Ripples." The cue more or less plays for as long as it's supposed to in the film, but it sounds like they just looped certain measures for ages instead of allowing it to play through as recorded. Lots of material in the score that's supposed to play over the drum beats, but it's not there in the film, and what is there sounds like it was looped.

[Michael]

That's awesome! I love the new Horn that you added at the end!

I still wonder if The Jungle Chase should have had more of this...

[Datameister]

Thanks! "Rialto Ripples" is coming along nicely, too - I'm getting to reuse a lot of material from the recordings, rather than re-creating those parts in Finale, which is nice. Sounds more natural. The first half of the cue is pretty awesome, I think. It's a pity that it ended up being less interesting in the film. Anyway, I'll post the mockup of that part of the cue when I'm done.

[Prometheus]

Sorry if this has already been dealt with, but in the cue 'Raptors Appear' there's no Shakuhachi (which is present in the film and CD release of the film) notated in the score for the menacing intro - just the Synth Pad, Synth 'animal voice', Log Drums, Tablas and Celli. Do you think Masakazu Yoshizawa ad libbed this part at the last minute?

[Datameister]

I don't know if the decision was made by Williams, the performer, or someone else, but changes like that do happen on the scoring stage.

[Prometheus]

Yep. Also the tam-tam cresc. at 0:53 seconds before the horn rip, isn't there either.

[Datameister]

Oh yeah, true.

EDIT: Okay, here's my "Rialto Ripples" partial mockup. The beginning you just take from the OST track "Ludlow's Demise", all the way through that quiet drum beat. The downbeat of the mockup replaces the entrance of the orchestra (taken from the cue "Ludlow's End"). Let the mockup play all the way through, and then right after that, the DVD rip comes in with the brass and woodwinds.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=JBSCR4E1

[Prometheus]

Which bar does that mockup start from?

[Datameister]

Bar 39, right on the downbeat.

[Maurizio]

Very nice job, Data. Keep them coming!

[Jason LeBlanc]

Just listened to both your recent mockups Joe. Great work! Can't wait to hear everything, all put together

[Datameister]

Thanks, guys!

This is but a tiny piece of the puzzle, but if anyone needs a clean beginning to "Heading North", here ya go. I re-created the first note in Finale and edited it into what you hear on the OST. In cases like these, Finale's Garritan sounds can be really convincing - if I were just listening to this casually, I probably would never guess that the first note wasn't real.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=WSO16N25

Also, just FYI, Williams wrote music that would have continued all the way through the boat crashing into the dock, I think. It was dialed out of the film. It's a gradual, stuttering build that gets faster and faster and louder and louder. I'll do a mockup and post it when it's done.

[Jason LeBlanc]

You're talking about Ludlow's Speech now, right?

[Datameister]

Oh yeah, haha, whoops.

[Jason LeBlanc]

So if Ludlow's Speech was written to cover the boat crashing, and Monster On The Loose begin's with the T Rex emerging from the cargo hold, what the heck is Wompi's Wrench supposed to underscore?

[Datameister]

Everything in between. Finding the remains of the crew, opening the cargo hold, etc. In fact, it may be that "Ludlow's Speech" was supposed to segue directly into "Wompi's Wrench", and it may be that "Wompi's Wrench" was supposed to segue directly into "Monster on the Loose." I haven't figured out the timing yet - there's a long accelerando in "Wompi's Wrench" that I'll need to play around with - but I suspect this may have been the case. This could end up being another long track if all the proper segues are included.

[Jason LeBlanc]

"accelerando"?

[Datameister]

Sorry, haha - the music steadily gets faster and faster up through the end of the cue, rather than staying at a constant tempo.

[Jason LeBlanc]

Sweet, my guess was right

So you're saying its hard to tell how long the cue is, because of that?

Also I think i tried getting Wompi's Wrench to sync to the film and could never get it right. Of course, its possible the film was edited after scoring

[Datameister]

Yeah, it's a little easier to sync a mockup to the film if it's just a constant tempo all the way through. The accelerando is another variable to throw things off. But I'll play around with it and try to get something that sounds musically "correct" and more or less fits the film. As you said, the film does get edited after scoring, so you can never be too sure. I got "Wompi's Wrench" to sorta sync up...you want the first trombone blast to be right around when they find the remains of the crew.

[Jason LeBlanc]

I'd still like to know what the title means

[Datameister]

Me too...it's weird...

[Wojo]

WOMPI can stand for "Women of the Motion Picture Industry."

A wrench is more than just a tool for twisting bolts. It is also a violent twisting; a sharp twist or sudden jerk straining muscles or ligaments; the resultant injury (as of a joint); a distorting or perverting alteration; acute emotional distress; sudden violent mental change.

Do any women in the movie suffer painful violent twisting injuries? What about the T-Rex itself, did they bring the bull or the mother to San Diego?

[Datameister]

Maybe.

Here's the end of "Ludlow's Speech." I've got it so that it fits the length of the scene pretty well. It would have either segued directly into "Wompi's Wrench" or been followed by it very shortly after. I think I'll edit them together just for the heck of it.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=5A7E7N9C

In the final cut of the film, the cue ends with a single unison note, right as the drums cut off. That's the downbeat of a measure, and then the first note of the mockup is the downbeat of the next measure. So there should be equal spacing (in terms of time) between the "thumps." Basically, just line up the silent beginning of the mockup with the last note heard in the DVD rip.

EDIT: Man, it's even less certain what to do with the transition from "Wompi's Wrench" into "Monster on the Loose." The end of "Wompi's Wrench" is marked "repeat for fade", but it doesn't fade out on the OST...and then the beginning of "Monster on the Loose" has an optional repeat, but in the film, it doesn't repeat, and the two bars after it are cut, too. Because of the lengths of the cues, there's got to be SOME overlap, but I don't know if the first note of "Monster on the Loose" is supposed to sync up with the last trombone blast of "Wompi's Wrench" or if it's supposed to come in a moment later, continuing the rhythm that's been established. I think I'm gonna go with the latter. It seems more musical, and it fits the timing of the final cut of the film better...if you ignore the missing bars and optional repeat...

Gah, I wish we had Williams' sketches, too...that'd clear everything up!

[Elmo Lewis]

Do any women in the movie suffer painful violent twisting injuries? What about the T-Rex itself, did they bring the bull or the mother to San Diego?

It was the father. This is Spielberg we're talking about!

[Incanus]

All the best directors have daddy issues.


Great job with these pieces Joe! Keep 'em coming!

[Luke Skywalker]

'whompi wrench' any relation to 'monkey wrench'

it really is a weird cue title...

[Datameister]

Great job with these pieces Joe! Keep 'em coming!

Thanks! That's actually the last of 'em, though. I finished the "rough draft" of my edit last night, and now I just have to go through and "proof read" it for any issues I missed the first time through. I'll probably do that tonight or tomorrow so I have a little time cleanse my palate, as it were.

[Faleel]

Great job with these pieces Joe! Keep 'em coming!

Thanks! That's actually the last of 'em, though. I finished the "rough draft" of my edit last night, and now I just have to go through and "proof read" it for any issues I missed the first time through. I'll probably do that tonight or tomorrow so I have a little time cleanse my palate, as it were.

is this a personal edit or will you share it with people. just asking, i love this score

[Datameister]

What I'll probably do is post it on YouTube. I usually don't share the files themselves except with a few close friends, and my PM inbox is basically full, too.

[Faleel]

which PM inbox? youtube pm inbox? or Jwfan PM inbox?

[Datameister]

JWfan.

[Faleel]

JWfan.

so whats the name of your youtube account? datameister? or something else?

EDIT: oh your 1taken the piano guy right?