I was looking for folks' opinions on this score. I'm also wondering if there are any plans of an expanded release? $40 for a used copy on amazon seems a bit high for eleven tracks. Some fool is asking $225 for a new copy!?
It's interesting, as the horror genre isn't Williams' forte, but I thought he did a fine job.
Thanks,
~T.
Williams Dracula...worth pursuing?
Started by whoopiecat, Jul 07 2011 08:53 AM
47 replies to this topic
#1
whoopiecat
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Posted 07 July 2011 - 08:53 AM
"Why was I not made of stone, like thee?"
#2
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Posted 07 July 2011 - 08:56 AM
I would hold out for an expanded release. It's a good score, but the sound quality on the CD is rather poor, and it's only about half an hour long.
I can see this getting a complete release sooner rather then later.
I can see this getting a complete release sooner rather then later.
#3
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Posted 07 July 2011 - 08:58 AM
Yes, I would definitely pursue it. Williams was doing a romanticized (rather than gothic) DRACULA many years before Kilar's (which is excellent in its own right).
If you're like me and just like a good album representation, I would seek it out, expensive or not. If you prefer C&C, it might be reason to hold off a bit more, though. Maybe even such an expanded release will include the old album program.
If you're like me and just like a good album representation, I would seek it out, expensive or not. If you prefer C&C, it might be reason to hold off a bit more, though. Maybe even such an expanded release will include the old album program.
#4
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Posted 07 July 2011 - 08:58 AM
Yes I agree. If the price is outrageous it would be more prudent to wait as most likely an expanded version will come in the future.I would hold out for an expanded release. It's a good score, but the sound quality on the CD is rather poor, and it's only about half an hour long.
I can see this getting a complete release sooner rather then later.
Ars superior est vita hominum.
"We pop out and come into the world and music is there. We didn't invent it - it's all organised in the atmosphere by divinity or whatever. It's a miracle." - John Williams-
I think music is a stream of some kind. It could be blood. It could be water. It could be ether. Whatever it is it seems to be a living, organic force that’s in motion, that serves humanity and is part of humanity and part of what describes us as humans. We sing, play, dance, all the things that we do. And there is a vibrant and great literature we have been given. ... As musicians, we join the stream. We swim in the stream with all the other millions of music makers. It’s a life force, a strong one, surrounding us and we are part of it. -John Williams-
#5
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Posted 07 July 2011 - 09:00 AM
I was looking for folks' opinions on this score. I'm also wondering if there are any plans of an expanded release? $40 for a used copy on amazon seems a bit high for eleven tracks. Some fool is asking $225 for a new copy!?
It's interesting, as the horror genre isn't Williams' forte, but I thought he did a fine job.
Thanks,
~T.
It's one his two best scores of 1979.
The c.d. is rather short and Stefan is right (for once): the sound is not good, but the music is top notch. If you can, check out "To Scarborough" - fantastic!. $40 dollars (about £25) seems a good deal.
#6
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Posted 07 July 2011 - 09:03 AM
If you prefer C&C, it might be reason to hold off a bit more, though. Maybe even such an expanded release will include the old album program.
It has been said the OST is a re-recording so a complete score release will almost certainly feature the album arrangement next to the film tracks.
I hardly ever listen to this rather good score because it sound so poor.
#7
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Posted 07 July 2011 - 09:06 AM
If you prefer C&C, it might be reason to hold off a bit more, though. Maybe even such an expanded release will include the old album program.
It has been said the OST is a re-recording.
The OST is actually half-and-half.
#8
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Posted 07 July 2011 - 09:07 AM
You know this? How?
#9
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Posted 07 July 2011 - 09:09 AM
The OST Album is not a re-recording à là Jaws or E.T., but actually a well-assembled creative presentation of the cues as recorded for the film. It features however passages not present in the final cut of the film, such as the original "Night Journey". It's surely a great listening experience.
I'm sure we'll see this re-released soon from one of the labels properly expanded and remastered, featuring the complete score on Disc 1 and the OST album presentation on Disc 2.
I'm sure we'll see this re-released soon from one of the labels properly expanded and remastered, featuring the complete score on Disc 1 and the OST album presentation on Disc 2.
"It's still baffling to me. I sit down with a pencil and a piece of paper and do my best... The remarkable thing is that my music is heard by billions of people." --John Williams
"Let me say, however, there is no "next" John Williams. Sadly, he is unique--- a figure who simultaneously embodies and transcends the music of all the masters of film music who preceded him (much like Brahms and Wagner of the Romantic era). He comes from a time when the craft of music in film was still one of the ear, heart and mind. Today, sadly, the craft is largely technical. Most composers do not conceive their music "inwardly" but rather at the computer--- and with rather limited skills, musically, at that. The inner spirit knows no boundaries--- our plastic abilities, sadly, do. John is a man of spirit, heart, intellect and soaring music." -- Conrad Pope about John Williams
"Let me say, however, there is no "next" John Williams. Sadly, he is unique--- a figure who simultaneously embodies and transcends the music of all the masters of film music who preceded him (much like Brahms and Wagner of the Romantic era). He comes from a time when the craft of music in film was still one of the ear, heart and mind. Today, sadly, the craft is largely technical. Most composers do not conceive their music "inwardly" but rather at the computer--- and with rather limited skills, musically, at that. The inner spirit knows no boundaries--- our plastic abilities, sadly, do. John is a man of spirit, heart, intellect and soaring music." -- Conrad Pope about John Williams
#10
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Posted 07 July 2011 - 09:11 AM
I'd dispute that. Apart from the main title, which has a alternate middle section, it's just the edited film versions.
DRACULA's sound really sucks ass...as i'm surely the first one pointing out.
DRACULA's sound really sucks ass...as i'm surely the first one pointing out.
You wouldn't see a subtle plan if it painted itself purple and danced naked on top of a harpsichord, singing "Subtle Plans Are Here Again."
#11
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Posted 07 July 2011 - 09:12 AM
It's one his two best scores of 1979.
Uhm, didn't he like only score two films in 1979..?
#12
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Posted 07 July 2011 - 09:13 AM
DRACULA's sound really sucks ass...as i'm surely the first one pointing out.
No, I beat you to it. again...
WINNING!
#13
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Posted 07 July 2011 - 09:14 AM
It's one his two best scores of 1979.
Uhm, didn't he like only score two films in 1979..?
Anybody home? Huh? Think, McFly. Think!
You wouldn't see a subtle plan if it painted itself purple and danced naked on top of a harpsichord, singing "Subtle Plans Are Here Again."
#14
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Posted 07 July 2011 - 09:14 AM
You know this? How?
2 reasons:
A friend from long ago attended the "Dracula" recording sessions, in 1979 (it was here that he procured me my first JW autograph).
Also, when I first saw JW in 1982 at the Barbican, I got chatting with Maurice Murphy (see the "RIP Maurice Murphy" thread ffi) in the interval, and he enthused about "Dracula" (actually, he said that it was his fave JW score).
I asked about if "Dracula" was a re-recording (yes, even then, I was alert to all the different versions of stuff that I had heard!).
JW. used alternate versions on the album, but "Dracula" is NOT a re-recording.
#15
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Posted 07 July 2011 - 09:21 AM
If you watch the movie it's pretty clear it's the same recording. Williams however took his time to conceive a good album out of it and edited/reassembled several cues in a very musical way. He also selected a few alternate/unused passages, like the second half of "Night Journey" and an alternate "Dracula's Death".
However, the complete score would also be a great listening experience, as it features several thematic material nowhere to be found on the OST. It's really one of JW's most fluent, romantic scores ever.
However, the complete score would also be a great listening experience, as it features several thematic material nowhere to be found on the OST. It's really one of JW's most fluent, romantic scores ever.
"It's still baffling to me. I sit down with a pencil and a piece of paper and do my best... The remarkable thing is that my music is heard by billions of people." --John Williams
"Let me say, however, there is no "next" John Williams. Sadly, he is unique--- a figure who simultaneously embodies and transcends the music of all the masters of film music who preceded him (much like Brahms and Wagner of the Romantic era). He comes from a time when the craft of music in film was still one of the ear, heart and mind. Today, sadly, the craft is largely technical. Most composers do not conceive their music "inwardly" but rather at the computer--- and with rather limited skills, musically, at that. The inner spirit knows no boundaries--- our plastic abilities, sadly, do. John is a man of spirit, heart, intellect and soaring music." -- Conrad Pope about John Williams
"Let me say, however, there is no "next" John Williams. Sadly, he is unique--- a figure who simultaneously embodies and transcends the music of all the masters of film music who preceded him (much like Brahms and Wagner of the Romantic era). He comes from a time when the craft of music in film was still one of the ear, heart and mind. Today, sadly, the craft is largely technical. Most composers do not conceive their music "inwardly" but rather at the computer--- and with rather limited skills, musically, at that. The inner spirit knows no boundaries--- our plastic abilities, sadly, do. John is a man of spirit, heart, intellect and soaring music." -- Conrad Pope about John Williams
#16
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Posted 07 July 2011 - 09:24 AM
It could never be re- released or expanded on c.d. , so I would buy a copy now as a Williams fan
#17
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Posted 07 July 2011 - 09:24 AM
It's definitely worth the $40, but it's even more worth it to wait for an expansion. It's a marvelous score.
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1. Nightwatch/Killer By Night - Johnny Williams and Quincy Jones 2. Diamond Head/Gone with the Wave - Johnny Williams/Lalo Schifrin 3. Mass - Leonard Bernstein 4. Bernstein with the New York Philharmonic - Leonard Bernstein
#18
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Posted 07 July 2011 - 09:59 AM
I don't think the sound is THAT bad. Sure, it's a little muffled and could do with a good remastering, but it's certainly much better than others I've heard from the same era.
#19
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Posted 07 July 2011 - 10:12 AM
It does not sound better then Star Wars, Close Encounters, Superman, Jaws 2, 1941 and The Fury
#20
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Posted 07 July 2011 - 10:25 AM
It does not sound better then Star Wars, Close Encounters, Superman, Jaws 2, 1941 and The Fury
Tomlinson again managed to produce this muddy and tin 50's string sound which plague his recordings up to AN AMERICAN TAIL.
You wouldn't see a subtle plan if it painted itself purple and danced naked on top of a harpsichord, singing "Subtle Plans Are Here Again."
#21
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Posted 07 July 2011 - 10:29 AM
Not all. Masada (the re-recording) sounds great. So does Supergirl.
#22
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Posted 07 July 2011 - 10:45 AM
Not all. Masada (the re-recording) sounds great. So does Supergirl.
Yeah, thank god he did good on SUPERGIRL instead of SUPERMAN.
Tomlinson often provided great brass and woodwind recordings, but strings and percussion seldom rocked the house.PS: SUPERGIRL actually sounds ok, but the mixing of the synths is sometimes atrocious. OUTLAND is the only Goldsmith by Tomlinson i would recommend without reservations. MASADA has too much room noise and seems filtered somewhat. If that is Tomlinsons fault i don't know.
You wouldn't see a subtle plan if it painted itself purple and danced naked on top of a harpsichord, singing "Subtle Plans Are Here Again."
#23
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Posted 07 July 2011 - 12:38 PM
I'm holding out for a complete release, as well.
#24
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Posted 07 July 2011 - 01:12 PM
KarolI'm holding out for a complete release, as well.
From a storytelling point of view, from a directing point of view, there is one thing I associate with what he does, which is calm. There is such an inherent calm and inherent trust of the one powerful image, that he makes me embarrassed with my own work, in terms of how many different shots, how many different sound effects, how many different things we’ll throw at an audience to make an impression. But with Kubrick, there is such a great trust of the one correct image to calmly explain something to audience. There can be some slowness to the editing. There’s nothing frenetic about it. It’s very simple. There’s a trust in simple storytelling and simple image making that actually takes massive confidence to try and emulate.
- Christopher Nolan
#25
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Posted 07 July 2011 - 01:23 PM
I wouldn't discourage anyone from picking up an OOP CD.
It seems whenever someone does pay a bunch for one they find, an expanded release gets issued shortly after.
It seems whenever someone does pay a bunch for one they find, an expanded release gets issued shortly after.
#26
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Posted 07 July 2011 - 02:23 PM
That's true. I bought Batman Returns, First Knight and Star Trek V last year.
And Hook too...
Karol
And Hook too...
Karol
From a storytelling point of view, from a directing point of view, there is one thing I associate with what he does, which is calm. There is such an inherent calm and inherent trust of the one powerful image, that he makes me embarrassed with my own work, in terms of how many different shots, how many different sound effects, how many different things we’ll throw at an audience to make an impression. But with Kubrick, there is such a great trust of the one correct image to calmly explain something to audience. There can be some slowness to the editing. There’s nothing frenetic about it. It’s very simple. There’s a trust in simple storytelling and simple image making that actually takes massive confidence to try and emulate.
- Christopher Nolan
#27
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Posted 07 July 2011 - 02:49 PM
40 dollars is definitely worth it. Jaws 2 and Dracula are honestly worth the prices. I listen to them both frequently.
#28
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Posted 07 July 2011 - 06:48 PM
If you do buy the Dracula CD on Amazon, notice that the one for 39.99 is a 'Former library copy with expected markings'. It a little risky since its going to have scratches (and will possibly skip). For a little more, there are copies in 'Very Good' and 'Like New' condition. I'd go for one of those.
#29
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Posted 08 July 2011 - 02:26 AM
My #1 most wanted expansion. So much goodness, dripping with Williams atmosphere.
I'd pay $40 for the original if I didn't have it, yeah.
I'd pay $40 for the original if I didn't have it, yeah.
#30
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Posted 08 July 2011 - 02:32 AM
I've not seen the movie, how is the unreleased stuff?
#31
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Posted 08 July 2011 - 02:56 AM
Fantastic, in my opinion. There is some wonderful, villainous music for Dracula's entrance off the carriage in London, and a great CE3K-style repeating motif for the autopsy of Mina. It's just got that perfect vintage sound.
#32
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Posted 08 July 2011 - 02:58 AM
I remember hearing a cool unreleased cue when the horse starts running around the cemetery...short but good.
Recently Purchased CDs:
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1. Nightwatch/Killer By Night - Johnny Williams and Quincy Jones 2. Diamond Head/Gone with the Wave - Johnny Williams/Lalo Schifrin 3. Mass - Leonard Bernstein 4. Bernstein with the New York Philharmonic - Leonard Bernstein
#33
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Posted 08 July 2011 - 03:00 AM
Fantastic, in my opinion. There is some wonderful, villainous music for Dracula's entrance off the carriage in London, and a great CE3K-style repeating motif for the autopsy of Mina. It's just got that perfect vintage sound.
I hold your opinion in high regard! I'll have to see if I can Netflix this movie so I can listen to the music.
#34
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Posted 08 July 2011 - 10:31 AM
I've not seen the movie, how is the unreleased stuff?
I don't know, as I don't really care this way or that way about unreleased stuff, but the film is rather mediocre, IMO. You could live perfectly well without seeing it.
#35
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Posted 08 July 2011 - 10:45 AM
I've not seen the movie, how is the unreleased stuff?
I don't know, as I don't really care this way or that way about unreleased stuff, but the film is rather mediocre, IMO. You could live perfectly well without seeing it.
I could live perfectly well without Champagne, but it's nice to taste, once in a while.
The unreleased stuff is great, my favourite music being the sequence when Dracula's carriage arrives at Seward's home.
#36
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Posted 08 July 2011 - 11:21 AM
I could live perfectly well without Champagne, but it's nice to taste, once in a while. The unreleased stuff is great, my favourite music being the sequence when Dracula's carriage arrives at Seward's home.
And for all the backlash it gets, i much prefer it and its grey english coastline atmosphere over Coppola's or Hammer's colorfests.
It may be slighter in scope, but that befits the romantic aspect quite well. The dinner scene with Lucy and Dracula, when the camera looks from high above through the spider's web is also a Williams gem. A romantic/mysterious treatment of the main theme, which is like a great alternate to NIGHT JOURNEYS. The Dies Irae quote ion the horse scenes is also quintessential 70's Williams.
You wouldn't see a subtle plan if it painted itself purple and danced naked on top of a harpsichord, singing "Subtle Plans Are Here Again."
#37
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Posted 08 July 2011 - 01:28 PM
I've not seen the movie, how is the unreleased stuff?
I don't know, as I don't really care this way or that way about unreleased stuff, but the film is rather mediocre, IMO. You could live perfectly well without seeing it.
I could live perfectly well without Champagne, but it's nice to taste, once in a while.
The unreleased stuff is great, my favourite music being the sequence when Dracula's carriage arrives at Seward's home.
Except that DRACULA is hardly champagne. More like a glass of watered-out juice.
#38
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Posted 09 July 2011 - 02:37 PM
Thank you all for your input, and thanks to Matt for the heads-up about the former library copy. Hopefully, it will get an expanded treatment someday, but I suppose I'll just keep an eye out for a copy that's rasonable in price.
I appreciate the help as well as the opinions.
~T.
I appreciate the help as well as the opinions.
~T.
"Why was I not made of stone, like thee?"
#39
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Posted 09 July 2011 - 09:16 PM
I would recommend picking up the lp version if you have a record player. I picked up a sealed copy recently and it sounds much better than the cd
#40
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Posted 10 July 2011 - 03:44 PM
I found Dracula all by chance ages ago. I was blown away. It earned its place on the very top of my list for Williams' works. Recording is poor but the score is a masterpiece!
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