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Final Space Shuttle Launch (Atlantis)


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#1 Blumenkohl

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Posted 08 July 2011 - 02:36 PM

To quote....Jeremy Clarkson of all people:

As a result, the magic of space exploration has gone. Instead of getting up at 3am to watch a fuzzy man bouncing around a sound stage in Nevada, we turn over and go back to sleep. We look today at the space shuttle and think of it as an ugly and outdated lorry that blows up when it takes off and disintegrates when it comes back again. I don’t. I see a machine that generates 37m horsepower but produces nothing from its exhausts except water. I see a fabulous creation that lights up the night sky with its power and is doing 120mph by the time its tail has cleared the launch tower and 17,500mph by the time it’s cleared the atmosphere. I see a machine that could get from Florida to Spain via space in 20 minutes, and can deal with the furnace of re-entry. A furnace that burns three times hotter than the surface of the sun. And best of all, I see a machine that glides back to Earth with no power, somehow kissing the runway at exactly 211mph.


Link to live feed:

http://www.nasa.gov/externalflash/135_splash/index.html

#2 Quint

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Posted 08 July 2011 - 03:26 PM

I'm watching Corrie, sorry.

#3 crocodile

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Posted 08 July 2011 - 03:27 PM

:lol:

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From a storytelling point of view, from a directing point of view, there is one thing I associate with what he does, which is calm. There is such an inherent calm and inherent trust of the one powerful image, that he makes me embarrassed with my own work, in terms of how many different shots, how many different sound effects, how many different things we’ll throw at an audience to make an impression. But with Kubrick, there is such a great trust of the one correct image to calmly explain something to audience. There can be some slowness to the editing. There’s nothing frenetic about it. It’s very simple. There’s a trust in simple storytelling and simple image making that actually takes massive confidence to try and emulate. - Christopher Nolan

#4 Stefancos

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Posted 08 July 2011 - 03:55 PM

It's sad that the Space Shuttle is being retired. It's even more sad that I don't have a clue what they are gonna replace it with.

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#5 stewdog1

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Posted 08 July 2011 - 07:26 PM

It's bitter sweet here in Hunstville, AL where many of us worked on and/or supported the shuttle throughout the years. It's amazing how many people I know, their fathers and grandfathers all worked on it.

Steef,
The private sector is racing (pun intended) to fill the gap. Even though I love NASA, it's really the best thing for space travel. I think we will go more often and farther with private companies leading the way. Just waiting for the first company(s) to build the first space hotel. That I think will really get the industry to take off.

#6 Trent Bennett

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Posted 08 July 2011 - 07:34 PM

It sucks that the government won't fund NASA to build a completely new shuttle fleet but "All good things must come to an end". However, I do agree that with private companies things will go quicker in this area of the field. Better shuttle designs will be made and built. Just gonna have to wait and see if it takes off (no pun intended) properly and not fail.
""Fear. Fear attracts the fearful. The strong, the weak, the corrupt, the innocent. Fear is my ally."

#7 crocodile

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Posted 08 July 2011 - 07:36 PM

It's amazing how quickly the conquest of space went out of fashion. Who would habe thought that in the 60's?

Karol
From a storytelling point of view, from a directing point of view, there is one thing I associate with what he does, which is calm. There is such an inherent calm and inherent trust of the one powerful image, that he makes me embarrassed with my own work, in terms of how many different shots, how many different sound effects, how many different things we’ll throw at an audience to make an impression. But with Kubrick, there is such a great trust of the one correct image to calmly explain something to audience. There can be some slowness to the editing. There’s nothing frenetic about it. It’s very simple. There’s a trust in simple storytelling and simple image making that actually takes massive confidence to try and emulate. - Christopher Nolan

#8 Blumenkohl

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Posted 08 July 2011 - 07:44 PM

I'm not sure the private sector has the capacity to do what it takes to get out there on the scope of the 50s, 60s and 70s. The NASA of that era was far above and beyond anything doable by even the largest conglomerates today. It was a collaboration between brilliant scientists, engineers, and various sectors of government including the military, all with immense amount of capital at their finger tips. One year of NASA then would be the lifetime cash stockpiles of the largest private entities today.

Yes, Richard Branson can ferry Justin Timberlake back and forth sub-orbit...but they simply do not have the capacity nor the desire to push the envelope. You're not gonna see them ferrying up scientists to do research that will yield technology that can be used to create the artificial heart for the example.

#9 Williamsfan301

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Posted 08 July 2011 - 09:08 PM

We've talked about this in another thread. There was a program, called the Orion/Constellation program, that was in the works to replace the shuttle. However, our president scrapped it in his first year in office. After this mission, the only way the US will be able to put Americans into space will be for them to ride on Soyuz spacecraft. I guess we now know who ultimately won the Space Race....

Anywho...

In honor of today's launch....Here's Rocket Man....as performed by William Shatner


"So this is how liberty dies; with thunderous applause" - Padme Amidala

#10 indy4

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Posted 08 July 2011 - 11:21 PM

It's very sad that this is the last shuttle launch, but it's also understandable. There are more immediate obstacles at hand.
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#11 Koray Savas

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 02:38 AM

We've learned enough about the cosmos to know that we'll be dead before the Sun expires, when that other galaxy collides with ours. No point further exploring. Hell, we'll probably kill ourselves even before that.

In 50 years Herrmann will be forgotten.


#12 Wojo

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 03:19 AM

I certainly hope we do. Give the cockroaches a chance.

@Wojo: stop being facetious.


#13 Stefancos

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 09:31 AM

It's very sad that this is the last shuttle launch, but it's also understandable. There are more immediate obstacles at hand.


That is a sad and shortsighted comment.

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#14 Alexcremers

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 09:58 AM

The space shuttle is only good for flying orbits right outside our atmosphere (exophere? whateversphere?) but not suited for space exploration. Mars is our next target and can only be done with the gool ol' rocket and pod principle. So it's back to where they started.



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#15 crocodile

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 02:38 PM

Mars is passé.

Karol
From a storytelling point of view, from a directing point of view, there is one thing I associate with what he does, which is calm. There is such an inherent calm and inherent trust of the one powerful image, that he makes me embarrassed with my own work, in terms of how many different shots, how many different sound effects, how many different things we’ll throw at an audience to make an impression. But with Kubrick, there is such a great trust of the one correct image to calmly explain something to audience. There can be some slowness to the editing. There’s nothing frenetic about it. It’s very simple. There’s a trust in simple storytelling and simple image making that actually takes massive confidence to try and emulate. - Christopher Nolan

#16 Chaac

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 03:34 PM

The first main objective should be a) developing tecnology for escaping Earth's gravity well for cheap, and building colonies on orbit afterwards (there are some really awesome designs) and b) enhance the unnmaned exploration of our solar system, pretty much one the most awesome things humanity has ever done.

There's no point on putting a few people and a flag on a distant planet and get them back.

I'm sad I missed this last launch, I like watching these kind of things.

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#17 Koray Savas

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 03:55 PM

There's no way to launch into space for cheap. You know what fuels rockets? Gasoline!

I also don't see the point why we need colonies in orbit of our own planet.

In 50 years Herrmann will be forgotten.


#18 Blumenkohl

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 04:24 PM

There's no way to launch into space for cheap. You know what fuels rockets? Gasoline!


Not quite. The rockets are fueled by (mainly) hydrogen and oxygen.

#19 Koray Savas

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 04:30 PM

Whatever, it ain't cheap. :P

In 50 years Herrmann will be forgotten.


#20 Blumenkohl

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 04:42 PM

I also don't see the point why we need colonies in orbit of our own planet.


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#21 Alexcremers

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 04:48 PM

Mars is passé.

Karol


Some say it's mankind's best chance of survival.
Pictures, visual images, are far better to achieve that end than any words, particularly now, when the world has lost all mystery and magic and speech has become mere chatter, empty of meaning - Andrei Tarkovsky

#22 Chaac

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 05:14 PM

I also don't see the point why we need colonies in orbit of our own planet.


I can think on SO many reasons that I don't know where to start.

It can also be any other planet, but there has to be a start for that somewhere.

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#23 Trent Bennett

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 01:24 AM

Riker: Look at that.
Cochrane: What, you don't have a moon in the 24th century?
Riker: Sure we do, it just looks a lot different. There are 50 million people living on the moon in my time. You can see Tyco City, New Berlin, even Lake Armstrong on a day like this.
""Fear. Fear attracts the fearful. The strong, the weak, the corrupt, the innocent. Fear is my ally."

#24 indy4

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 01:59 AM


It's very sad that this is the last shuttle launch, but it's also understandable. There are more immediate obstacles at hand.


That is a sad and shortsighted comment.

Why? The biggest benefit space travel has to offer is possible colonization to save us from a dying planet, but by the time we figure out how to make that work (if we even can make it work) the earth will already be uninhabitable, or close to it. I'd rather we spend the money the on researching methods of saving our current planet, and once we're in a safer place in this area, continue space research.

Destroying jobs is an unfortunate side effect of the temporary termination of the program, but the extra money can just as easily be used to create more jobs if, like I said, we research methods of saving the earth.
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#25 Wojo

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 02:34 AM

The space shuttle was never meant to take us to other planets. "Shuttle" implies something akin to a ferry, so it would take people from earth to orbiting structures and back again. The problem is that aside from putting Hubble into space and maintaining it, helping out Mir, and installing the ISS, the other structures in space never materialized.

Koray's concern of the cost of gasoline is not unwarranted. While the shuttle doesn't consume gasoline in its ascent into orbit, the external tank, solid rocket boosters, and shuttle itself if it lands anywhere other than Canaveral all require gasoline to get to the launch site. Not to mention the tremendous cost of the raw materials required to build the external tanks, which are not reusable unlike the SRB's since it falls off at such a height that it burns up.

It is unfortunate that so many jobs have been lost with the termination of the space shuttle program. But as cigarettes get more and more expensive, and the restrictions and fines to use them in public places increase, it seems that the government seeks to put the people in that industry out of work too, but nobody cries over that spilled milk. Curious.

What problems facing humanity will building orbital colonies solve? Overcrowding? The places with the highest concentrations of human life tend to be among the poor people in cities, especially in third world countries. Are these people good candidates to throw up into space? There are plenty of vast untamed wildernesses on this planet for the six billion of us to spread out and all have some room. The problem is that so many people are crammed into tiny countries with no opportunity to move into the empty places, and the people with room to spare don't want everyone else's refugees.

Food shortages? There is no food to be had in space, where every drop of water or seed must be placed there by rocket from the ground.

Jobs? Unless people will make their living collecting the last 60 years' worth of space debris from orbit, there are no raw materials in orbit to support an economy, other than space tourism.

Mars is a logical place to send people, if only to mine whatever raw materials might be there, study the water and rocks there, and to build larger spacecraft for deeper space missions in the low gravity and better access to the outer planets. The real action in our solar system -- aside from Earth -- is in the asteroid belt for its mineral wealth, and in the Jovian and Saturnian satellites that may support life. There's no reason to go inward, to Mercury or Venus.

But I'm also a big fan of not putting any concerted effort into space travel until we either find indisputable proof of extraterrestrial civilizations, fix this planet, or find a way to put people into stasis for the months and years it'll take to get anywhere.

Riker: Look at that.
Cochrane: What, you don't have a moon in the 24th century?
Riker: Sure we do, it just looks a lot different. There are 50 million people living on the moon in my time. You can see Tyco City, New Berlin, even Lake Armstrong on a day like this.


That's funny. I remember a particular DS9 episode where the Defiant returned to Earth, and the moon looked exactly like the moon of today: barren. The only time I recall seeing development on the moon in Star Trek was in the two next to last episodes of Enterprise, where Peter Weller was the bad guy. And even then, you didn't see a built up moon from a distance.

@Wojo: stop being facetious.


#26 Koray Savas

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 02:44 AM


I also don't see the point why we need colonies in orbit of our own planet.


I can think on SO many reasons that I don't know where to start.

It can also be any other planet, but there has to be a start for that somewhere.


Well then give me a couple examples. Overpopulation isn't a huge enough problem to warrant all the things necessary to create an orbiting colonization (see Wojo's post). What would people do there? Sit and watch the stars roll by? And I can think of a much cheaper and easier solution to overpopulation.

Our planet can't be saved. Mars can't be saved. The only way for mankind to survive is to escape the galaxy, which frankly will never happen. So enjoy your stay and party like it's 1995.

In 50 years Herrmann will be forgotten.


#27 Blumenkohl

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 03:02 AM

I'll let the great Carl Sagan explain:



#28 Wojo

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 03:07 AM

The quicker humanity gets to another planet, the quicker we'll fuck that one up too, because we'll always be able to find another one, and then we'll really let this one go to hell.

No, the best thing for life on this planet, and for the universe in general, is for humanity to drive itself into total utter extinction.

@Wojo: stop being facetious.


#29 Blumenkohl

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 03:13 AM

Blah blah blah. There's always one or two people who sit around hoping we obliterate ourselves. Thankfully the other 6 billion won't let that happen.

#30 Wojo

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 03:20 AM

All six billion? I doubt it. At least one billion people still eat bugs, live in feces, have children like it's going out of style, and are really no better than the rats they live with. And I'm pretty sure that if you gave the terrorists enough nukes with range, they would get rid of half the planet without batting an eyelash, all for those virgins they're promised.

@Wojo: stop being facetious.


#31 king mark

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 05:19 AM

No, the best thing for life on this planet, and for the universe in general, is for humanity to drive itself into total utter extinction.


ok, well just wait until I get all the remaining unreleased JW music

#32 Koray Savas

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 05:45 AM

I wonder if heaven is a library of complete and chronological JW scores. NUKE THE PLANET NOW!

In 50 years Herrmann will be forgotten.


#33 Wojo

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Posted 11 July 2011 - 12:07 PM

You know what that's worth? Heaven is a place on earth.

@Wojo: stop being facetious.


#34 Mark Olivarez

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Posted 18 July 2011 - 02:58 AM

There's no profit to be made by private companies joining the space race.


However it's not all doom and gloom as the people are led to believe. NASA is working on the next vessel, which is similar to the capsules of the 60's.

#35 stewdog1

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Posted 18 July 2011 - 03:36 PM

There's no profit to be made by private companies joining the space race.


Really? I think quite the opposite. Once you can get space rides as normal as a plane ride, you can then start with space hotels, and then rooms on the moon with a view. All kinds of new industries can be created from this. You would just have to be careful about it become the wild west.

#36 Stefancos

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Posted 18 July 2011 - 03:40 PM

There are certainly no short term profits. Since the costs of Space Travel is astonomical.

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#37 Mark Olivarez

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Posted 18 July 2011 - 04:53 PM

Right now there is no profit, perhaps at a future point there will be but it's going to cost a bunch of money to get to that stage. So outside of a few, there is no urge or need from the private sector to push ahead.

#38 stewdog1

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Posted 18 July 2011 - 06:58 PM

There are certainly no short term profits. Since the costs of Space Travel is astonomical.



Right now there is no profit, perhaps at a future point there will be but it's going to cost a bunch of money to get to that stage. So outside of a few, there is no urge or need from the private sector to push ahead.


Of course, but that is where taking risk comes in. Walt Disney, for example, is an example. However, the problem today is that so many companies are risk averse. Walt Disney would never be allowed to do today what he did back then when building Disneyland and WDW.

#39 Trent Bennett

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Posted 18 July 2011 - 09:35 PM

I know this isn't towards the shuttle Atlantis but William Shatner did a recording for the final mission day for the Discovery. Apparently too William Shatner actually posted this and it's his account.


""Fear. Fear attracts the fearful. The strong, the weak, the corrupt, the innocent. Fear is my ally."

#40 Chaac

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Posted 18 July 2011 - 09:55 PM

Since the costs of Space Travel is astonomical.


Most of the cost is for launching stuff into orbit. Space travel itself isn't that costly. Which is a good reason for building and launching stuff already in orbit.

Besides, today lots and lots of money, much more than what it's used in space exploration and basically all research, goes into useless and time-consuming destinations that hold back humanity for the benefit of the few, instead of all of us.



I also don't see the point why we need colonies in orbit of our own planet.


I can think on SO many reasons that I don't know where to start.

It can also be any other planet, but there has to be a start for that somewhere.


Well then give me a couple examples. Overpopulation isn't a huge enough problem to warrant all the things necessary to create an orbiting colonization (see Wojo's post). What would people do there? Sit and watch the stars roll by? And I can think of a much cheaper and easier solution to overpopulation.

Our planet can't be saved. Mars can't be saved. The only way for mankind to survive is to escape the galaxy, which frankly will never happen. So enjoy your stay and party like it's 1995.


Oh, I wasn't thinking on overpopulation. I'll give you a few:

-Apparently, you can basically live on solar energy. This means, most of the energy problem solved. Now think on the consequences of having a really low cost source of energy in excess that goes on for million of years. Nearly free and enough energy is a must.
-Better observations of the sky.
-Development of activities between several G and microgravity for hundreds of applications. On Earth, you can't choose, but there you can.
Also, think sex in microgravity, microgravity for disabled people, etc. And the possibilities of aeronautics at 1 atm and 0G.
-Great place for building ships and launching missions.
-LOTS of space for each person/family, more that the average person could ever afford to live on Earth.
-No earthquakes, tsunamis, hurricanes, tornadoes...
-Possibility of new kinds of societies different from those on Earth. New environment, new culture.
-Etc, you only have to use your imagination here.

I'm against the Mars thing. We haven't evolved to live on other planets, and that place should be left as it is. It should be researched, of course. But it would be more confortable to live on its orbit, with our own gravity and with a magnetic field against radiation.

I don't think we will need to escape the galaxy. It's a big place. If we ever get out, that will be so far into the future that I doubt these people would classify as "humans", but something else.

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