99 replies to this topic

[Chaac]

I'll see Sucker Punch, I hope I find substance there that's actually by Snyder.

[Stefancos]

It doesnt look very substantial.

[Chaac]

I know

[Quint]

It look shite, it really does. I doubt I'll ever even watch it. I've made my feelings known on green movies and from what I've seen they don't come greener than Sucker Punch.

[Stefancos]

It has a message?

Oh lord?

[Stefancos]

Nothing Zach Snyder has done shows he's capable of making a film of that calibre.

Again, nothing Donner did prior to Superman The Movie show that he had the chops to make an epic film like that.

[Alexcremers]

LOTR is epic but Supes? Nah.

[Quint]

I disagree. I think Superman The Movie is wonderfully epic.

[Alexcremers]

How? I see a film leaning towards the screwball comedy of the fourties. It has that tone, not the elevated tone you would expect from heroic tales.

Right, Elmo Lewis?

[Elmo Lewis]

It does have certain 1940's-flavored elements, especially when it comes to the scenes with Hackman and that hopelessly innocent Metropolis. But don't reduce it to that.

Is it an epic in the strict sense of the word, though? Well, there are some emotional moments shown through spectacular visuals. If that's what we consider epic (I don't, I just consider that Hollywood), then why not?

Unless you count the "son who exceeds his father's expectations" angle. Narratively speaking, you can't get more epic than that. But that would make The Godfather the ultimate epic and I doubt that's what Quint meant.

[Stefancos]

It does have certain 1940's-flavored elements, especially when it comes to the scenes with Hackman and that hopelessly innocent Metropolis. But don't reduce it to that.

It's clearly a film of 2 halves. The first part has that "sprawling epic" quality too it. both on Krypton and the wide fields of Smallville.

The metropolis section is a bit more screwball.

[Romão]

It does have certain 1940's-flavored elements, especially when it comes to the scenes with Hackman and that hopelessly innocent Metropolis. But don't reduce it to that.

It's clearly a film of 2 halves. The first part has that "sprawling epic" quality too it. both on Krypton and the wide fields of Smallville.

The metropolis section is a bit more screwball.

It's when the movie looses all its appeal to me. But the first part is still fantastic

[Quint]

Watchmen (Dir Cut). No story spoilers.

The past ten years or so has seen a surprisingly large succession of succesful and largely worthwhile superhero movie adaptations hit the big screen, with the biggest icons leading the charge in the form of Batman and Spiderman and with the likes of Hellboy and Ironman bringing up the rear. But for every qualified superhero success story there seems to have been a deluge of lesser known, almost specialist comic book characters having a dig at carving out their own cinematic riches; with consistently disappointing and lacklustre results. It seems your average movie-goer has little interest in superheroes outside of the iconic likes of Superman and Batman; with complete indifference towards the vengeance of Darkman or the flashy exploits of The Green Lantern - movies which are destined to be forgotten as also-rans. "Cult" superheroes are too risky a venture, too difficult to nail.

So it is refreshing when a movie like Watchmen comes along.

An unexpected amalgamation of genres and a mesh of suitably brash personalities, the film is at once arresting and quickly very fascinating. That director Zack Snyder manages to assuredly and superbly weave a strong narrative through what boils down to an episodic plot in which each and every character is given plenty of time to breathe and be fleshed out, is probably the film's biggest achievement. That he makes it immediately accessible and the story's vast complexity effortlessly easy to follow (this is no convoluted Batman plot) is a near filmic miracle.

So many films (not just superhero ones) flounder at the first base – characterisation, but not here: the motley bunch who make up the Watchmen are wonderfully realised and importantly – vividly executed in terms of both dialogue (sharp as a needle) and poise. In this completely believable alternative universe, characters like The Comedian and the brilliant Rorschach are on the face of it every bit the larger-than-life clichés and caricatures we have come to expect from our comic book superheros, however; I've never personally encountered such clichés who have beating hearts, real humanity (or lack of) and an overall, anti-narrative written into their fibre. These aren't complex characters merely because they witnessed their parents get murdered, no, these people count attempted rape, child murder and alcoholism among their many 'failings'.

And yet they endear themselves. They are likeable. That's a very special filmmaking gift, that. Hard to come by and absolutely appreciated when it does. You're still on their side as they fight 'crime' and catch the bad guys. Though it is often the case that in this deeply colourful world (nothing is black and white here) the bad guys go after the bad guys. It's fascinating stuff.

But they're not all bad, not at all – Nite Owl is the nice, polite single fella down the road who at nighttime over a few beers dreams of bringing back the good old days of kick-assing villains into jail, the yearning for the old camaraderie never going away. But he can't manage it, its best left alone – a spot-on observation of middle-aged has-beens pining for their youth again, entertaining the idea of an affair as they go about there daily mundane business. A superhero's mid-life crisis. Heck – he's even lost his mojo in bed. Marvelous.

Dr Manhattan as the film's only true humanoid superpower exists in this story as the central McGuffin to which all events are tied to, which is a smart move. Adding a grandiose element of epic sci-fi to the mix succeeds for two reasons: he makes everyone else and their petty problems look pathetic, he makes the viewer realise that this is much bigger than criminal squabbling, plus, in putting us - the viewers, right there into the mind and thinking of this god-like being we are in complete understanding of his motivations when he is clearly more and more disinterested with Earth and humankind. It creates a great suspense mechanic, an anchor to brace the growing tension to. The nuanced performance by Billy Crudup in the role cements it - such a gracefully delivered performance with a cold, patronising edge. I'd love to see him reprise it sometime.

The film doesn't get it all right, though. The pacing could have been even tighter, there's an intentionally bad sex scene which doesn't quite work as it was probably designed and I do not like Guy Richie/Edgar Wright camera swishes (with yep, swishy sound effects) in my movies, unless they're comedies (where I can accept them). Keep that gimmicky crap away from movies aimed at intelligent adults. I mean, would a Stanley Kubrick superhero movie ever had camera swishes with sound effects? I think not.

Minor things though which don't really impact much on my engrossed enjoyment of the film. It looks like a dark comic book brought to life, the film is alive with content and it doesn't treat the viewer like a complete dickhead.

5 Stars.

[crocodile]

That's more like it. Thank you.

Karol

[Incanus]

Now that was a good review Quint!

[Alexcremers]

Indeed, and I agree with the observations about the film's characters, the review's main focus. I didn't notice the Guy Ritchie "swishy sound effects". I agree with Steef, it was refreshing to see every move. I was surprised that the camera wasn't too close to the choreography (see Comedian apartment) and yet is was extremely violent, impactful and beautiful at the same time.

[Quint]

Honestly, I don't really see it as a special quality just because we can make out what's going on in an action sequence and I certainly don't find it refreshing at all. Such things should be a given. I realise it's trendy nowadays to edit the shit out of fight sequences to within an inch of their lives, but that's all it is - a trend.

I don't award kudos points to Snyder just because he didn't follow that trend, in the same way I don't award them to Spielberg either.

Watchmen has so much going for it, such sensibilities like shooting a fight scene with clear framing and incorporating a more traditional, albeit stylistic approach to editing are just a part of the greater make-up and are not a highlight, for me. We should already expect those things from any director worth a punt.

Now that was a good review Quint!

Thank you for saying so. I had to dust my laptop off.

[Alexcremers]

Honestly, I don't really see it as a quality just because we can make out what's going on in an action sequence and I certainly don't find it refreshing at all.

Okay, now I recognize you again.

[Quint]

Snide remarks because you disagree?

I'll always recognise you, Alex. Always.

[Stefancos]

Watchmen: The Directors Edition.
 
Comic book hero movies with superheroes are now very common, every year two or 3 big budget ones come out at the very least. All of them basically the same, because the comic books they are based on are basically the same. The mythos of the hero or heroes, an interesting couple of villains. Some personal agenda, and a plot which often involves world domination/destruction.....often New York is laid waste.
 
Watchmen has all of these elements, yet it never feels like one of the herd. It knows every cliché of the genre and plays with them, exposes them.
 
The film starts strong with a dramatic fight scene that ends badly for Superhero The Comedian. From they it segues into a series of vignettes underscored by a Bob Dylan song. Famous scenes from the 20th century. Familiar, yet different.
The investigation to find out who killed The Comedian and why is the main plot of the film, but it's only the spine. Much of the film takes place in flashbacks. Exposing our heroes. Explaining their origins, their motivations.
 
The director, Zach Snyder constantly shifts to different times, different viewpoints back to the present, or in this case 1985, under Dick Nixon, on the verge if all out war with Russia. This world is less stylised then how Snyder painted his scenes in 300. It looks deliberately very familiar to our world, but with cinematic touches. Blimps with advertising circle New York, like the circled L.A. in Blade Runner (Snyder also uses a famous advertisement from Ridley Scott), the war room as shown in this film looks identical to the one shown in Kubrick's Dr. Strangelove, filmed in grey tones.
 
This is far more of a character movie then the average Superhero fare. It also gives some of the actors a chance to really stretch.
Jackey Earle Haley spends much of the movie wearing a mask, but does amazing things with his voice and posting. Gravely tones that would make Clint Eastwood sound like a tenor. His Rorschach inhabits the same kind of uncompromising vision that Dirty Harry had, but much for savage and terrifying. And when he finally does take of his mark, or is unmasked actually, we see the face matches the voice perfectly.
 
Billy Crudup also does a lot with his voice. most of the character he plays is CGI, and even though his face can be reconized as his own, the eyes are empty and white. His Dr. Manhattan talk in a flat, dry, often bored tone. Him being so powerfull and omnipotent that the questions, opinions and lives of everyone around him seem remote and insignificant. Crudup's character constantly talk to people like one would talk to a 4 year old child.
 
These two stellar performances are supported by a strong cast. Especially Jeffrey Dean organ is impressive as The Comedian, making a raping, pregnant-woman shooting psychopath into someone you actually feel some compassion for.
 
The joy of Watchmen is that it is about so much more then it's basic plot. Even though the world the movie portrays if fictional. It feels expansive. The "present time" in Watchmen film like an end of an era. It has an epic quality that most Comic book movies lack. An epic quality not achieved by budget, or effects, but by the years. This movie feels like it's telling a story of decades. The rise and fall of the Superheroes.
In it's 3 hours it achieves this more then the last string of Marvel film did that led up too The Avengers.
 
Snyder's direction is detailed and confident. His love for slo-mo feels natural and well-used. And it's a beautiful looking film, far more appealing then the murky and garish look of the comic it's based on.
The score by Tyler Burden is effective, but essentially anonymous. Musically this movie belongs to the many songs. From 3 Bob Dylan songs, the Nena's 99 Luftballons, to Hallelujah by Leonard Cohen. Orchestral music-wise the highlights are the tracks composed by Philip Glass.
 
In my opinion this is the best comic-book/Superhero movie ever made. Many will still point at Superman: The Movie instead and that is OK. Essentially these two movies are polar opposites.
Superman The Movie is a celebration of the genre's most enduring hero. Watchmen is a dissection of the genre as a whole. A commentary on the Superhero rather then perhaps an actual superhero film.
 
Most commentary films are meaningless without the subject they are riffing upon, Watchmen however can stand alone.
 
**** out of ****