7840 replies to this topic

[crocodile]

Care to elaborate then? Art as a medium, whether it's literature, film, games, etc. is an expression and reflection of the artist, meant to be consumed by a population. Of course each medium can be broken down into many categories with different purposes, but I view art as a tool to expand one's thinking. There are more films that strive to achieve this goal, than those that simply want to make you forget about life for a couple hours.

I don't talk about escapism as lack of ideas. I reckon it would be strajge to assume that you go to cinema to watch reality. Because if you do, you're fooling yourself. Because so-called true and real films (like historical one, for example) are just fiction disguised as fact. Film, no matter how honest it tries to be, is always a lie of sorts. And it that sense it's all escapism, it always was. That's what I meant.

Karol

[Koray Savas]

Koray, you think Crash is a masterpiece, you know nothing!

I believe the word I used was "great."

Care to elaborate then? Art as a medium, whether it's literature, film, games, etc. is an expression and reflection of the artist, meant to be consumed by a population. Of course each medium can be broken down into many categories with different purposes, but I view art as a tool to expand one's thinking. There are more films that strive to achieve this goal, than those that simply want to make you forget about life for a couple hours.

I don't talk about escapism as lack of ideas. I reckon it would be strajge to assume that you go to cinema to watch reality. Because if you do, you're fooling yourself. Because so-called true and real films (like historical one, for example) are just fiction disguised as fact. Film, no matter how honest it tries to be, is always a lie of sorts. And it that sense it's all escapism, it always was. That's what I meant.

Karol

I'm talking about a much bigger picture. Art as influence for creativity and imaginative thought. A way to evoke an emotional response from something that isn't real, but rather abstract.

[Stefancos]

Film is not be definition art Koray, neither is music, theatre, sculpting, painting, literature etc...etc..

Art can come from those crafts, but it's only a small percentage...

[Koray Savas]

You're wrong.

[Quint]

RE: The Avengers. I think it's rather funny as well that people who in the past have claimed to get really annoyed by movies which resort to deus ex machina and yet they seemingly failed to notice the whopper of one in this movie.

[crocodile]

Yes, but I don't think things like this can't be measured. It is possible that some person has this kind of profound reaction to Tranformers 2. That they discovered something about themselves, regained their long lost soul, were moved to tears etc. Would they be wrong?

Besides, film as a medium is a very bullying thing. It costs millions to realise a vision, whereas in a case of other art forms, it costs almost nothing. Even comics is more pure than film, which requires an entire industry to accomplish of somehting. And yes, needs to make money. If a comic book flops, no one will care as much.

Karol

[Stefancos]

So Transformers: Dark Of The Moon is art?

Thank you Koray

[Chaac]

For all it's silliness (and airy brilliance), ID4's invasion is mounted and executed with a surprising scary and efficient methodology which actually feels more authentic than people were probably expecting when they went in.

I haven't seen that one.

I think District 9 is the most realistic alien "invasion" film. From what I remember, we never learn how or why they ended up in our atmosphere. If filmic aliens ever invaded Earth, I'm sure we'd never know why either.

Oh, I like that film. They're here for no reason, and most of them are not intelligent for some reason.

You do a lot of thinking about this stuff, do you?

I kinda do, yep.

There's a way the Chitauri's strategy could make sense. If it wasn't for the heroes, they would have annihilated New York in a few minutes. Then retreat, close the portal, and carry the device in secret to another important city. Repeat. Attack specifically those places that would completely dismember any of humanity's attempts at organization. Basically, cosmic trolling. Then watch them kneel. This sounds like something Loki would do, laughing at the face of the humans.

I like little snippets in the film like when Loki says to Thor that the humans keep killing among themselves and he does nothing. He knows where to hit.

So Transformers: Dark Of The Moon is art?

Thank you Koray

Yes, it is. It's probably just shit, which is a different thing altogether.

The way I see it: there are films that don't attemp to do anything serious as films (not as subject matters). They're not art. Then the ones that do, are art, and can range from crappy to fantastic. Specifically, failed art exists, despite the opinions of some elitists who try to deny this and only call art these works they consider fantastic.

Yes, but I don't think things like this can't be measured. It is possible that some person has this kind of profound reaction to Tranformers 2. That they discovered something about themselves, regained their long lost soul, were moved to tears etc. Would they be wrong?

Besides, film as a medium is a very bullying thing. It costs millions to realise a vision, whereas in a case of other art forms, it costs almost nothing. Even comics is more pure than film, which requires an entire industry to accomplish of somehting. And yes, needs to make money. If a comic book flops, no one will care as much.

And this is why film is still in its infancy. But it progresses, now it would be much easier for me to do something filmic than a pair of decades ago. It will mature someday.

Why do you say "even" comics?

[Quint]

For all it's silliness (and airy brilliance), ID4's invasion is mounted and executed with a surprising scary and efficient methodology which actually feels more authentic than people were probably expecting when they went in.

I haven't seen that one.

Sigh, c'mon dude, get with the program. I'm not going to bombastically enter a discussion about war movies without seeing Apocalypse Now first.

[Chaac]

For all it's silliness (and airy brilliance), ID4's invasion is mounted and executed with a surprising scary and efficient methodology which actually feels more authentic than people were probably expecting when they went in.

I haven't seen that one.

Sigh, c'mon dude, get with the program. I'm not going to bombastically enter a discussion about war movies without seeing Apocalypse Now first.

I, however, have seen the entire first third and have been told the ending (which sounds stupid).

[Quint]

It is very stupid. The best sort of stupid.

[Alexcremers]

Film is not be definition art Koray, neither is music, theatre, sculpting, painting, literature etc...etc..

Art can come from those crafts, but it's only a small percentage...

Everything depends on your definition of the word 'art'.

[Stefancos]

If everything can be art, then the word art is meaningless.

[Chaac]

Bingo.

[Koray Savas]

Yes, but I don't think things like this can't be measured. It is possible that some person has this kind of profound reaction to Tranformers 2. That they discovered something about themselves, regained their long lost soul, were moved to tears etc. Would they be wrong?

Besides, film as a medium is a very bullying thing. It costs millions to realise a vision, whereas in a case of other art forms, it costs almost nothing. Even comics is more pure than film, which requires an entire industry to accomplish of somehting. And yes, needs to make money. If a comic book flops, no one will care as much.

Karol

Oh absolutely. All film is art at the basic level. Designing something isn't a craft, because it requires creative thought. So costumes, sets, etc. contribute to that. CGI and special effects require a certain technical skill, but again, it's all design. Art is there, and it's up to the individual to decide whether it's effective or not. Obviously there are artists that strive to do particular things. Film is a business as well, like I said earlier. It employs thousands, people do it for a living, but it's incredibly hard to break into because of that creative aspect. Everyone knows the expression, and I'm paraphrasing, that artists starve until they make it big. It's an incredibly daunting profession if you choose to make it one. But I see it as a necessary component of life. Without it, we'd be living in Ray Bradbury's futuristic dystopia (Hey more art!).

So Transformers: Dark Of The Moon is art?

Thank you Koray

Yes, whether it's good or bad is up to you.

[Chaac]

Bingo again!

[Koray Savas]

If everything can be art, then the word art is meaningless.

You don't know the definition of art do you? Although that in and of itself can be subjective to the individual.

[crocodile]

Why do you say "even" comics?

Because, while an amazing medium, the sheer most of them are, inexplicably, even more retarded than movies. Only small handful of comics genuinely achieve something.

Oh absolutely. All film is art at the basic level. Designing something isn't a craft, because it requires creative thought. So costumes, sets, etc. contribute to that. CGI and special effects require a certain technical skill, but again, it's all design. Art is there, and it's up to the individual to decide whether it's effective or not. Obviously there are artists that strive to do particular things. Film is a business as well, like I said earlier. It employs thousands, people do it for a living, but it's incredibly hard to break into because of that creative aspect. Everyone knows the expression, and I'm paraphrasing, that artists starve until they make it big. It's an incredibly daunting profession if you choose to make it one. But I see it as a necessary component of life. Without it, we'd be living in Ray Bradbury's futuristic dystopia (Hey more art!).

It's all true, of course. But I was talking about the money involved. It makes it less "free" than other artforms.

Karol

[Chaac]

Why do you say "even" comics?

Because, while an amazing medium, the sheer most of them are, inexpicably, even more retarded than movies. Only small handful of comics genuinely achieve something.

Only a small handful of everything genuinely achieves something. Specially if it's a Bollywoood-like industry, like comic books in the USA are many times. However, in occasion, you need a lot of crap for the gems to appear. There are still loads of worthy works that fit into many different tastes. (Hey, we could have a thread in the Other Topics)

[Alexcremers]

If everything can be art, then the word art is meaningless.

You don't know the definition of art do you? Although that in and of itself can be subjective to the individual.

Clearly, Stefancos' definition of the word 'art' refers to the quality that sets it apart from other creative works. Both definitions are used frequently though I must say a lot of artists use it the way our Steef uses it. Just an observation.

[Quint]

If everything can be art, then the word art is meaningless.

You don't know the definition of art do you? Although that in and of itself can be subjective to the individual.

Well for arguments sake lets just say my way is the right way, so calling Transformers art is fucking garbage nonsense bullshit! Subjective opinion is in the eye of the beholder? Well blind people must have shit taste in movies, although Michael Bay is thankful for them since there's a chance he might get called an artist!

[Stefancos]

As far as I know there has never been a universally agreed upon definition of "art". So my definition is as valid, or invalid as anyone else's.

I'm a printer my trade. I work with pigments and paper, just like a painter. But what I do it not art.

[Koray Savas]

You can say it's fucking garbage nonsense bullshit, with which I would agree, but it's still art.

[Chaac]

If everything can be art, then the word art is meaningless.

You don't know the definition of art do you? Although that in and of itself can be subjective to the individual.

Clearly, Stefancos' definition of the word 'art' refers to the quality that sets it apart from other creative works. Both definitions are used frequently though I must say a lot of artists use it the way our Steef uses it. Just an observation.

A definition fits inside the other. It's like when you say at a brilliant film something like "whoah, now this is cinema". But I guess this definition might end devouring the other and creating that despective actitude.

[Stefancos]

So if art could be bullshit, or brilliant, what's the value of the word art?

[Koray Savas]

As far as I know there has never been a universally agreed upon definition of "art". So my definition is as valid, or invalid as anyone else's.

I'm a printer my trade. I work with pigments and paper, just like a painter. But what I do it not art.

Pigments and paper are tools. It depends on what you do with them. A painter uses it to express something from within his/her self, in order to evoke an emotional response from someone else.

[Alexcremers]

As far as I know there has never been a universally agreed upon definition of "art". So my definition is as valid, or invalid as anyone else's.

I'm a printer my trade. I work with pigments and paper, just like a painter. But what I do it not art.

Depends on what you do exactly with those tools.



Edit: Please moderator, put my post before Koray's. I was first but my computer was a little bit slower.

[BloodBoal]

So if art could be bullshit, or brilliant, what's the value of the word art?

Who said the word art should have any value?

[Chaac]

So if art could be bullshit, or brilliant, what's the value of the word art?

Value? It's there for separating it from other activities. It's a denomination.

[Koray Savas]

So if art could be bullshit, or brilliant, what's the value of the word art?

There is no value in the word art. The value is in what you use to describe it, such as bullshit or brilliant.

[Stefancos]

Hippy trippy nonsense!

Are you on drugs?

[Quint]

You can say it's fucking garbage nonsense bullshit, with which I would agree, but it's still art.

Quote.of.the.year.

Cheers, Koray!

[BloodBoal]

Are you on drugs?

All artists are!

[Koray Savas]

No, but if you want to go into a more controversial discussion, we can talk about how video games are art.

EDIT

I need to stop responding without quoting the post I'm responding to.

[Stefancos]

Take that one up with Roger Ebert.

Koray, what would you NOT describe as art?

[Chaac]

I'm going to put a different example.

A 12 year old is impressed by a painting, and wonders if he can something like that, something that cool. He tries. Many times. He doesn't get nowhere near that painting. His drawings would be deemed as bullshit. But to me, the activity he's doing is art.

Videogames can range from art to an activity like sports. My problem so far with videogames is a question of platform. Specifically, how dependant are they of their platform, and how they vary when adapted from a platform to another.

[Alexcremers]

Koray, what would you NOT describe as art?

Probably what you do with pigments and paper.

[Stefancos]

Koray is being brilliant here.

Is Koray a piece of art now?

[Koray Savas]

Koray, what would you NOT describe as art?

Construction, for one. Building something is an act that doesn't require creative thought, but technical skill. It's a craft.

[Stefancos]

Probably what you do with pigments and paper.

I've screenprinted art, some of it sold for ten of thousands of dollars. But it was the artist to conceived the prints that MADE the art. I just executed it.