7814 replies to this topic

[Alexcremers]

6/10

[Drax]

Most indepth review I've ever read.

[indy4]

I saw Ted. It was hilarious! I went in expecting the premise of a cute teddy bear that swears and smokes would get old after awhile, but there were a lot of surprises that kept it fresh. I especially enjoyed the grocery store manager, the various references to John Williams (especially the Indiana Jones one), Patrick Stewart's narration, and Walhberg's boss (his last exchange at the wedding was great). If you're a fan of Family Guy-style humor executed perfectly, this is a film for you.

[Chaac]

The Way Back.

I was liking it but I didn't like the ending.

[Quint]

Decent but forgettable movie.

[BloodBoal]

The Way Back.

I was liking it but I didn't like the ending.

Decent but forgettable movie.

My thoughts exactly.

The biggest problem with this film was that there was no tension between the characters. They all pretty much get along well, so it never feels like they'll have difficulties reaching their destination. Shame, because the cast was pretty good.

[Alexcremers]

They even got along fine when a woman joined their team. All behaved liked perfect gentlemen. Was this a family movie?

[Chaac]

The problem is that if they don't get along they just die. And you don't want to be left alone in the middle of nowhere either. That's why the dialogues about I need you because you're kind and that you've made an alliance with the Devil and shit, and why Mr Smith says as little as possible.

My problems with this film were others.

[Alexcremers]

That's great in theory but to me it does make the film boyish. Conflict between the characters could've lifted the film above the average. Conflict while trying to stay alive in the wilderness is what made The Edge interesting. What's your problem with it?


Alex

[Quint]

The Edge has very juicy 'conflict', like Jaws. And like Jaws again, the chemistry of the leads makes it.

The Way Back is an entirely different sort of movie.

[Alexcremers]

So? If there was no conflict between the characters in The Edge, it would've had the same problem as The Way Back.

Anyways, they are both survival movies and I don't think the core of the story is that different at all. To say it's "entirely different" isn't entirely correct.


Alex

[Chaac]

So for you the survival itself isn't interesting. There has to be conflict between characters or it becomes a "family film" aka not good.

[Quint]

So? If there was no conflict between the characters in The Edge, it would've had the same problem as The Way Back.

Anyways, they are both survival movies and I don't think the core of the story is that different at all. To say it's "entirely different" isn't entirely correct.


Alex

Nah, there's said conflict between the survivors in The Grey and that's absolutely nothing like The Edge at all. The difference is all down to tone - The Way Back, like The Grey, is extremely bleak and hopeless. The Edge on the other hand is an adventure movie, a boys own yarn. It's dramatic in the traditional Hollywood sense. Yeah they share the lost in the wilderness theme, but as experiences and writer intentions they're worlds apart, or indeed "entirely different"

[Hlao-roo]

Most indepth review I've ever read.

Brevity is the soul of wit.

[Joey]

Red Tails was fun. The hate it has received is strange, I guess most is towards Lucas, but it's rather disrespectful towards the black actors, and crew. The themes in the film are reflected in the reviews.

we passed on Sherlock Holmes until next weekend.

[Luke Skywalker]

I Just cant believe it didnt had an oportunity to be seen overseas. Not even in home-media.

[Alexcremers]

Nah, there's said conflict between the survivors in The Grey and that's absolutely nothing like The Edge at all. The difference is all down to tone - The Way Back, like The Grey, is extremely bleak and hopeless. The Edge on the other hand is an adventure movie, a boys own yarn. It's dramatic in the traditional Hollywood sense. Yeah they share the lost in the wilderness theme, but as experiences and writer intentions they're worlds apart, or indeed "entirely different"

Ebert thinks I'm right. Sorry, who are you?

And you missed the essence of The Edge by calling it an adventure movie. It's because of the conflict (which could've saved The Way Back if it had any) or the psychological warfare between the two main characters that the movie is more interesting than your boy scout movie. It's due to Mamet's witty, cynical dialog that the film strays away from the typical Hollywood survival film.

[Quint]

Ah, Alex. Alex, Alex, lol. Unlike your phony erudite self, I'm able to formulate my own opinions and theories without finding out what dignitaries and Rotten Tomatoes contributors think first. It's the reason I'm able to see the rubbish which makes up much of a movie like Prometheus and cut through all the hyperbole surrounding it and the reason why you will only ever see a movie after you've considered and studied absolutely every critical reaction to it beforehand - thus compromising and colouring your own eventual reaction and ultimately making the idea of impartiality on your part a veritable impossibility. Damningly, it of course unwittingly makes your views largely worthless, but I will admit to finding much entertainment value in your opinions nonetheless, as you must surely already know.

That you just came in here (days later than I posted no less) and 'backed up' your 'argument' with "Ebert agrees with me" is hilarious. Don't you know that's an insta- lose in all debate, both online and off? Next time, I suggest you come up with your own material or risk me laughing you out of the thread again.

Who are you? Ah, how could I ever forget. You're Alexcremers from JWFAN, snigger...

[crocodile]

RenoQuint's opinion is correct.

Karol

[Alexcremers]

Well, since you and Chaac disagree so vigorously (as you always do), I thought, let us see what an expert have to say about it. You know, just to found out if I'm really that crazy. Perhaps my perception is way off? Turns out I'm not alone ... Ebert (I don't know any other critics by name) too sees where The Way Back is lacking. I just gave an example of a comparable situation (The Edge) and where it isn't lacking. When you have a survival film about men going through the wilderness, you need some kind of interesting tension going on, something that makes it more intriguing than merely seeing them travel from point A to point B. That's the power of The Edge. The men were not just battling nature, they were mostly battling each other.

Remember, Quint, all you can come up with is: Nah, you are wrong, you can't compare these two movies, so what you are suggesting is not true. Then you bring up irrelevant things like tone and how The Way Back is bleak - as if that's a reason for why there shouldn't be any dramatic conflict!!! - while The Edge is an adventure movie about boy scouts fighting a bear. If that's all you see in it, it's no wonder you feel you need to disagree.

That you just came in here (days later than I posted no less) and 'backed up' your 'argument' with "Ebert agrees with me" is hilarious. Don't you know that's an insta- lose in all debate, both online and off? Next time, I suggest you come up with your own material or risk me laughing you out of the thread again.

Jeez! Losing, winning, laughing people out and of course the obligatory "LOL" ... what a childish mind you have, Quint.

[Quint]

Just a heads up to let you know I can't be bothered reading your post, nothing personal

See it as a little victory if it floats your boat.

So I'm under orders from Ren to watch The Hunt for Red October and pay attention to the score. Apparently both are really good. Somehow that movie has alluded me over the decades, which is odd since I love Connery, rugs included.

[Alexcremers]

See it as a little victory if it floats your boat.

I don't care about that. I'm only wondering (perhaps even annoyed) why a simple example about the importance of dramatic conflict is met with so much resistance, that's all.

[Wojo]

The Edge is a survival dilemma about two men who hate each other but need each other to survive. Well, one man hates the older man because he wants the older man's wife and is jealous of him, but needs him to survive, while the older man is too much of a nice guy to see any of this until it's too late.

The bear is just there to satisfy the "how could we make this any worse?" question the filmmakers always ask of their characters.

[Quint]

Indeed, but the package is one of sweeping mini-epic, as signalled by Goldsmith's majestic music. The movie is a thriller, not a drama.

[Alexcremers]

The Edge is a survival dilemma about two men who hate each other but need each other to survive. Well, one man hates the older man because he wants the older man's wife and is jealous of him, but needs him to survive, while the older man is too much of a nice guy to see any of this until it's too late.

The bear is just there to satisfy the "how could we make this any worse?" question the filmmakers always ask of their characters.

That's the dramatic conflict right there. I don't think it's literally about the woman though. It's a clashing of egos. It's what you get when you bring these two people together.


Alex

[Quint]

I don't see the characters and interplay in that way at all. There's only one ego and it surprisingly isn't the billionaire. Hopkins' character is a selfless, even humble man; fiercely intelligent and shrewd, but inherently good. Baldwin is the selfish evil doer and ego of the movie. In fact if you really want to get into it, Baldwin is the Iago of the piece.

On the other hand I don't think the movie holds up to that level of scrutiny. It is after all just an adventure movie, albeit one with a better than normal script.

[Alexcremers]

It's funny how you translate "ego" in something 'negative'. Everybody has an ego. In a certain way, I feel like the Hopkins character while I picture you more as the Baldwin character. Always trying to know better, always trying to undermine what the other one says, ...

[Wojo]

If the woman wasn't in the picture, there would be nothing for Baldwin to gain by killing Hopkins. Baldwin is just an every-man photographer and is certainly not in the old man's will. It would be fruitless murder.

Kill Hopkins in the wild to make it look like an accident, and Baldwin gets the woman, who naturally inherits Hopkins' ridiculous fortune. Thus, the woman is the catalyst for Baldwin's ego to act on his (its?) obsession with Hopkins, who is clearly oblivious as to why anybody would want to kill him or steal his wife until some point in the journey when he bluntly asks Baldwin as much.

Is it possible that Baldwin deliberately leaves the blood-stained clothing in the tree as bear bait? It could be, though we doubt he planned anything beyond the bear's intended murder of Hopkins.

[Alexcremers]

On the other hand I don't think the movie holds up to that level of scrutiny. It is after all just an adventure movie, albeit one with a better than normal script.

Like I said, you thought it was about the bear.

[Quint]

Again with sly hostility. Is this your inability to cope with different opinions to your own rearing its ugly head again? I think it is. It's a real problem. Nowadays I refuse to engage with you when you're being your typically petulant self. Honestly, I find your attitude repugnant and I'm just not interested in those sorts of discussions with you any more, I'm bored with them.

I sincerely hope you're not like this in real life, fella.

[Alexcremers]

If the woman wasn't in the picture, there would be nothing for Baldwin to gain by killing Hopkins. Baldwin is just an every-man photographer and is certainly not in the old man's will. It would be fruitless murder.

No, but Baldwin will still be waiting, like a young lion, for the moment when Hopkins makes a slip ... to take the upperhand. To be victorious. To beat him. To show Hopkins he's not all-knowing. You make it seem as if Mamet was only interested in the murder, as if it was an ordinary thriller without any form of psychology behind it. That's certainly not the movie I saw. To me, the woman is just symbolic. Baldwin wants what Hopkins has. IMO, that's largely the main focus of the movie.


Alex

[Wojo]

Baldwin wants what Hopkins has. IMO, that's largely the main focus of the movie.

Ok, sure, I'll give you that. Baldwin wants what Hopkins has, i.e. his ridiculous wealth. However, Baldwin has no way to gain anything from Hopkins except through Hopkins' wife.

Yes, Baldwin is annoyed that this old man is so well-read and a rather smug smartass about the whole thing. He's more jealous that such an old man is married to such a beautiful young woman, and can't help but wonder if she loves him for his money or him. So he interferes with that relationship and begins an affair, which has begun an obsession in his mind. What begins as wanting what he can't have -- Hopkins' wife -- now he wants all the rest that he can't have -- Hopkins' money. And he plans to murder Hopkins because of it. Ego, hate, lust, jealousy, they all simmer beneath Baldwin's facade and will explode during The Adventure.

But take the wife out of the equation completely. Does Baldwin still hate Hopkins? Do Baldwin and Hopkins even ever meet? Without the wife, Baldwin's hatred of this man would seem like just another nondescript murder of an affluent old man seemingly without any heirs. Take the wife out of the picture and it becomes your ordinary thriller sans psychology. Baldwin's decision to murder would be fruitless and borne out of a non-justified hatred of any old successful people at random, not just this Hopkins guy.

But because Hopkins is married to the young hottie that Baldwin was able to seduce, he is motivated to pluck the rest of Hopkins' wealth, i.e. his money, and the only way to do that is to kill Hopkins and *know* that his widow will select him.

Baldwin is not a murderer for murder's sake. He is an opportunistic leech.

Is the bear costume an attempt to commit the murder early by giving Hopkins a heart attack? Perhaps.

~*~

Ironically, Baldwin's recent marriage to a young woman is eerily reminiscent of Hopkins' role in The Edge. Has Mamet's writing been validated in real life?

[publicist]

But take the wife out of the equation completely. Does Baldwin still hate Hopkins? Do Baldwin and Hopkins even ever meet? Without the wife, Baldwin's hatred of this man would seem like just another nondescript murder of an affluent old man seemingly without any heirs. Take the wife out of the picture and it becomes your ordinary thriller sans psychology. Baldwin's decision to murder would be fruitless and borne out of a non-justified hatred of any old successful people at random, not just this Hopkins guy.

Knowing Mamet, i think he's a bit playful about it - hence, you can read it as a satire of american capitalism or as a classic greek drama, it could be either way. But in the end, while all of this is alluded to, the writer, the director and last not least the composer obviously knew they had to sell the whole thing to Joe Schmoe, so they're all rather sly about the subtext.

In the end, i agree: the bear was the main reason i enjoyed the movie, the rest was useful to keep the suspense going and at least provide a modicum of sophistication - but it's the bear you remember ('Wasn't this the movie with Hopkins and the bear?')

[Quint]

With that said, the extended final act after the bear is defeated is in its own way just as riveting as the action and suspense before it. It's a finely crafted movie, no doubt: everything about its content feels essential, which is about the biggest compliment one can pay to a movie.

[publicist]

It's the bear, dammit!

[Quint]

I'm not disagreeing

The bear is the perfect plot device, or macguffin for a movie of its type.

I'm just saying that the movie has lots of stuff going for it. The juicy characters, the killing, the suspense, the music, the sharp dialogue. Again, the Jaws comparison I made the other day rings true for me.

[Chaac]

I haven't seen The Edge yet, but I'm going to see Dersu Uzala now.

[filmmusic]

Just finished Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid.
This film is among AFI's 100 best american movies of all time and no 154 in top 250 in imdb.

I don't see what is the fuss about!

[Michael]

Fantastic film!! It's basically Jaws on land... with a giant pig.

Brilliant cinematography and amazing camera work... The film falls apart a little by the end, but when that comes you are so entertained that it's extremly easy to forgive. It can be both scary and quite funny! (Intentional or not, I'm not sure; but it works either way)

7.5/10

[Chaac]

The Great Escape