163 replies to this topic

[BloodBoal]

The thread title question is a better one. The actual poll is quite extreme in the options.

John Williams?

Or Michael Giacchino, Jerry Goldsmith, Ennio Morricone, James Newton Howard, Danny Elfman, John Powell, Hans Zimmer, Alexandre Desplat, and Thomas Newman?

The answer is obvious IMO.

The problem is, Koray, you really think Giacchino and some of those other guys have equal or superior composing skills than Williams. A bit like Blumenkhol

I listen to plenty of other stuff , but I do have a problem when some proclaim the music of Lost is equal or superior to anything Williams has ever composed.

I'd say the "problem" is your narrow mindedness and ignorance when it comes to anything not composed by Williams.

There are other things not composed by Williams ?

[Mark Olivarez]

Yeah it's a big world out there.

[Prometheus]

Try another list then: Bernard Herrmann, Miklós Rósza, Alex North, Jerry Goldsmith, Ennio Morricone, Max Steiner, John Barry, Basil Poledouris, Alfred Newman, Danny Elfman, etc etc

Take off Danny Elfman and possibly Poledouris, and I'd say all those listed above have equal if not superior compositional ability to John Williams.

Me? I'm a Benny Herrmann fan.

[Chaac]

Try another list then: Bernard Herrmann, Miklós Rósza, Alex North, Jerry Goldsmith, Ennio Morricone, Max Steiner, John Barry, Basil Poledouris, Alfred Newman, Danny Elfman, etc etc

Take off Danny Elfman and possibly Poledouris, and I'd say all those listed above have equal if not superior compositional ability to John Williams.

Me? I'm a Benny Herrmann fan.

on the Herrmann! I'm getting quite into some stuff by Rósza lately, too.

I put Elfman because I wanted a modern example. Poledouris' music is just too cool itself

Of course there's the compositional habilities and there's preferences. Williams makes some of the music I feel more strongly, so he's easily my favourite in that regard.

[Quint]

The thread title question is a better one. The actual poll is quite extreme in the options.

John Williams?

Or Michael Giacchino, Jerry Goldsmith, Ennio Morricone, James Newton Howard, Danny Elfman, John Powell, Hans Zimmer, Alexandre Desplat, and Thomas Newman?

The answer is obvious IMO.

The problem is, Koray, you really think Giacchino and some of those other guys have equal or superior composing skills than Williams. A bit like Blumenkhol

I listen to plenty of other stuff , but I do have a problem when some proclaim the music of Lost is equal or superior to anything Williams has ever composed.

I'd say the "problem" is your narrow mindedness and ignorance when it comes to anything not composed by Williams.

Whilst I agree with you that KM is a JW fanboy in every possible sense; I agree with him that Giacchino is a poor substitute for anything even resembling the greatness of John Williams. KM can be narrow minded, but I don't think he is in this instance.

[king mark]

The thread title question is a better one. The actual poll is quite extreme in the options.

John Williams?

Or Michael Giacchino, Jerry Goldsmith, Ennio Morricone, James Newton Howard, Danny Elfman, John Powell, Hans Zimmer, Alexandre Desplat, and Thomas Newman?

The answer is obvious IMO.

The problem is, Koray, you really think Giacchino and some of those other guys have equal or superior composing skills than Williams. A bit like Blumenkhol

I listen to plenty of other stuff , but I do have a problem when some proclaim the music of Lost is equal or superior to anything Williams has ever composed.

I'd say the "problem" is your narrow mindedness and ignorance when it comes to anything not composed by Williams.

You don't even know what I listen to and make these statements. I assume you still think I only have my Williams collection I've been playing in a loop for the past 10 years

Sorry but that really pisses me off Mark , and one of the reasons we don' t seem to get along (it's the dead set "perception" you seem to have of me).I have 1500 albums of various film composers in itunes. I listen to almost everything new that comes out except RCP scores .Do I compare everything to Williams standard..yes. Do I listen only to Williams...no, not by a long shot

I may be "narrow minded" in that I only listen to film music but no rock or pop tunes, but limiting my interest in film music to only JW is getting a bit old . And the "ignorant" remark about any film music not composed by Williams is very insulting

[Chaac]

Giacchino isn't a subtitute!

[gkgyver]

Whilst I agree with you that KM is a JW fanboy in every possible sense; I agree with him that Giacchino is a poor substitute for anything even resembling the greatness of John Williams. KM can be narrow minded, but I don't think he is in this instance.

He may be. But he is also right.

[crocodile]

Giacchino isn't a subtitute!

But sideways John Locke is!

Karol

[Stefancos]

Giacchino isn't a subtitute!

He is, actually.

Ever since he composed those computer game scores based on Spielberg/Williams films in the late 90's soundtracks fans have been proclaiming him as the new John Williams.

[MSM]

The only combination that would make it difficult for me would be:

All my Dvorak + Prokofiev + Korngold + Bernstein + Bernstein + Jarre + Walton + Shostakovitch.

But still, I have more JW albums

[Quint]

Giacchino isn't a subtitute!

He is, actually.

Ever since he composed those computer game scores based on Spielberg/Williams films in the late 90's soundtracks fans have been proclaiming him as the new John Williams.

Which is frankly a bloody massive insult to JW. Gia isn't even in the same realm as James Horner, let alone John Williams.

Look, I like Giacchino - I like what he represents and I really appreciate what he tries to do. But he ain't no master, noooooo fucking chance. Not yet at least.

[Faleel]

Giacchino isn't a subtitute!

He is, actually.

Ever since he composed those computer game scores based on Spielberg/Williams films in the late 90's soundtracks fans have been proclaiming him as the new John Williams.

Which is frankly a bloody massive insult to JW. Gia isn't even in the same realm as James Horner, let alone John Williams.

I like Giacchino, I like what he represents and I really appreciate what he tries to do. But he ain't no master, noooooo fucking chance. Not yet at least.

Giacchino's Star Trek sounds similar to Cliff Eidelman's soo that should show how high he ranks.

[Hlao-roo]

I wouldn't mind hearing more from the Cliff Eidelmans, the Mark McKenzies, and the Christopher Gordons of the world. I think they're at least as talented as Giacchino.

[Stefancos]

Yet somehow they never broke though.

I guess you need luck to be signed on to the right film, or the right director/producer.

It's like that eternal question what would have happened if Spielberg never hired JW for Sugerland? Would he have achieved a great career anyway?

[Datameister]

Amazing what one offhand remark by Spielberg will do for a man's reputation. Giacchino is not and has never been a Williams substitute. His strengths are very, very different from Williams', and I'm sure he'd agree that (as with the vast majority of human beings) his compositional skills simply aren't as deep and varied and advanced as Williams'. Doesn't mean his work can't be enjoyable to listen to because of its own idiosyncratic strengths.

That being said, my Giacchino fandom has been waning lately. I need a little more stylistic variety and melodic and orchestrational maturity from him.

[Faleel]

Amazing what one offhand remark by Spielberg will do for a man's reputation. Giacchino is not and has never been a Williams substitute. His strengths are very, very different from Williams', and I'm sure he'd agree that (as with the vast majority of human beings) his compositional skills simply aren't as deep and varied and advanced as Williams'. Doesn't mean his work can't be enjoyable to listen to because of its own idiosyncratic strengths.

That being said, my Giacchino fandom has been waning lately. I need a little more stylistic variety and melodic and orchestrational maturity from him.

I listened to a bit of his Star Trek and it baffled me how it could sound so bland.

[Quint]

Giacchino is not and has never been a Williams substitute. His strengths are very, very different from Williams', and I'm sure he'd agree that (as with the vast majority of human beings) his compositional skills simply aren't as deep and varied and advanced as Williams'.

And therein lies the fundamental difference. Plus that god given talent stuff, seemingly oft overlooked.

[Mark Olivarez]

The thread title question is a better one. The actual poll is quite extreme in the options.

John Williams?

Or Michael Giacchino, Jerry Goldsmith, Ennio Morricone, James Newton Howard, Danny Elfman, John Powell, Hans Zimmer, Alexandre Desplat, and Thomas Newman?

The answer is obvious IMO.

The problem is, Koray, you really think Giacchino and some of those other guys have equal or superior composing skills than Williams. A bit like Blumenkhol

I listen to plenty of other stuff , but I do have a problem when some proclaim the music of Lost is equal or superior to anything Williams has ever composed.

I'd say the "problem" is your narrow mindedness and ignorance when it comes to anything not composed by Williams.

You don't even know what I listen to and make these statements. I assume you still think I only have my Williams collection I've been playing in a loop for the past 10 years

Sorry but that really pisses me off Mark , and one of the reasons we don' t seem to get along (it's the dead set "perception" you seem to have of me).I have 1500 albums of various film composers in itunes. I listen to almost everything new that comes out except RCP scores .Do I compare everything to Williams standard..yes. Do I listen only to Williams...no, not by a long shot

I may be "narrow minded" in that I only listen to film music but no rock or pop tunes, but limiting my interest in film music to only JW is getting a bit old . And the "ignorant" remark about any film music not composed by Williams is very insulting

Yet you continue to make statements that suggest otherwise.

But no need to worry, I won't waste anymore time debating you about these issues.




There's one person who said Giacchino was the next Williams and that's the man who is responsible for part of JW's success, Steven Spielberg. I don't know who here seriously claimed that he was.

It's a shame that most of complain that modern film music is lacking, and make no mistake it is, but we get a composer, who has his own voice and writes quality film music but no one appreciates it.



But it doesn't matter anymore as I don't have the energy nor desire to continue these debates. I have too much real world stuff and changes in my life going on to be here all the time. Plus I find the the more time I spend on message boards, the less I enjoy listening to film music.

So I am resigning my mod status and bidding you all a farewell.

[Faleel]

So I am bidding you all a farewell.

[Stefancos]

Who do the good ones leave?

Gonna miss you Mark

[Hlao-roo]

If that's really it for Mark, it's a shame. But if his enjoyment of film music is really dampened by the time he spends here, I certainly don't begrudge him his decision.

It's strange to think, though, that if just a few more members in this thread had been more praiseworthy of Giacchino, no one would be bidding anyone farewell.

[indy4]

It's strange to think, though, that if just a few more members in this thread had been more praiseworthy of Giacchino, no one would be bidding anyone farewell.

Mark has every right to leave if he wants to, but I don't think we need to pretend to enjoy a composer more than we do just to keep other people posting (and for the record, I'm a Giacchino fan).

You'll be missed, Mark, I hope you make the occasional visit every once in a while.

[Joey]

The thread title question is a better one. The actual poll is quite extreme in the options.

John Williams?

Or Michael Giacchino, Jerry Goldsmith, Ennio Morricone, James Newton Howard, Danny Elfman, John Powell, Hans Zimmer, Alexandre Desplat, and Thomas Newman?

The answer is obvious IMO.

The problem is, Koray, you really think Giacchino and some of those other guys have equal or superior composing skills than Williams. A bit like Blumenkhol

I listen to plenty of other stuff , but I do have a problem when some proclaim the music of Lost is equal or superior to anything Williams has ever composed.

I'd say the "problem" is your narrow mindedness and ignorance when it comes to anything not composed by Williams.

You don't even know what I listen to and make these statements. I assume you still think I only have my Williams collection I've been playing in a loop for the past 10 years

Sorry but that really pisses me off Mark , and one of the reasons we don' t seem to get along (it's the dead set "perception" you seem to have of me).I have 1500 albums of various film composers in itunes. I listen to almost everything new that comes out except RCP scores .Do I compare everything to Williams standard..yes. Do I listen only to Williams...no, not by a long shot

I may be "narrow minded" in that I only listen to film music but no rock or pop tunes, but limiting my interest in film music to only JW is getting a bit old . And the "ignorant" remark about any film music not composed by Williams is very insulting

Yet you continue to make statements that suggest otherwise.

But no need to worry, I won't waste anymore time debating you about these issues.




There's one person who said Giacchino was the next Williams and that's the man who is responsible for part of JW's success, Steven Spielberg. I don't know who here seriously claimed that he was.

It's a shame that most of complain that modern film music is lacking, and make no mistake it is, but we get a composer, who has his own voice and writes quality film music but no one appreciates it.



But it doesn't matter anymore as I don't have the energy nor desire to continue these debates. I have too much real world stuff and changes in my life going on to be here all the time. Plus I find the the more time I spend on message boards, the less I enjoy listening to film music.

So I am resigning my mod status and bidding you all a farewell.

don't go away and don't go away mad. I am not a fan of Giacchino, but he's given music worthy of his fan's appreciation.

Few here have as diverse a love of film music as you. But don't be too hard on those who are not big on MG, remember we are not aren't big fans of HZ, and he's bigtime whether we like his music or not.

I love your posts, they are excellent.

[king mark]

Yet you continue to make statements that suggest otherwise.
But no need to worry, I won't waste anymore time debating you about these issues.
But it doesn't matter anymore as I don't have the energy nor desire to continue these debates. I have too much real world stuff and changes in my life going on to be here all the time. Plus I find the the more time I spend on message boards, the less I enjoy listening to film music.
So I am resigning my mod status and bidding you all a farewell.

I have praised Gia many times , especially for Let Me In and Super 8. I play those 2 scores a lot. I also made a nice compilation of themes and highlights from his other scores

And I am not against debating and I don't even mind being called a Williams fanboy because that part is true(as Quint and some others call me). I'll mercilessly bash anyone that claims LotR are the best scores ever written and that Gia is the equal of Williams. Or anyone that says any of the Potter scores from GoF onwards are better than Williams

I just don't like being called ignorant of all things and that I know nothing outside of John Williams .

I'm not sure why you would be resigning your mod status, I was just pointing out something you said to me I didn't like. If my reply to you contributed to this I apologize as I don't want you to leave either

[Wojo]

It's bicker fights like this that make me wish when the message board crashes again, it stays dead.

At least one of us would have gone out in style.

[king mark]

well you seem to get into these as well

[Faleel]

The LOTR scores are the best ever

[Wojo]

well you seem to get into these as well

I never said I was the perfect little princess that never argued or pushed people's buttons just to get a reaction.

[Koray Savas]

The point I was initially trying to make was that the choice being made is one musician over all the other music in the world. It makes no sense. I love Williams, but I wouldn't want to exclusively listen to his music. The list of composers I chose were just my personal favorites. Any one of you could fill in the blanks and then answer the question again.

For the record, I do think Giacchino has written material equal to or greater than Williams. If any of you are insulted, you shouldn't be. It's not like I'm insulted when you say the opposite.

I bid you adieu, Mark. It's be a pleasure knowing you and discussing things with you, from Zimmer to naked chicks! Run free, my friend!

[Luke Skywalker]

Ever since he composed those computer game scores based on Spielberg/Williams films in the late 90's soundtracks fans have been proclaiming him as the new John Williams.

That is another 'prejudice' set perception.

We may all (or may not - i dont remember myslef personally) have said that when we were 'young and inexperienced'...but i think we are all past that by a long shot. I dont anybody thinks that seriously now.

[Quint]

For the record, I do think Giacchino has written material equal to or greater than Williams. If any of you are insulted, you shouldn't be.

If anyone is genuinely insulted then they seriously need to lighten up.

[Richard Penna]

For the record, I do think Giacchino has written material equal to or greater than Williams. If any of you are insulted, you shouldn't be.

If anyone is genuinely insulted then they seriously need to lighten up.

This is really the only part of KM's opinion that I generally find unreasonable - that another composer has never written something that equals Williams' work.

We can argue the merits of LotR/SW/RCP till long after the cows have come home and died of old age, but this generalisation that Williams is so skilled and versatile that no one can better him is just the biggest load of rubbish.

[Stefancos]

No I honestly think KM has a point.

If we are talking about the best music that Williams has written, then I'd say very few composers have matched or surpassed him. And if they have done so it's only been for an instant.

There is nothing wrong by putting Williams on a pedestal Richard. Isn't that why we are here?

[Quint]

Maybe that's why a few might be posting on the wrong board...

[Demondm810]

I love film music. But I would say goodbye forever to everyone if I had to choose them or JW. No score by anyone in history could take the place of Raiders, ET, Hook, Jurassic, Potter, etc. EVER

[indy4]

For the record, I do think Giacchino has written material equal to or greater than Williams. If any of you are insulted, you shouldn't be.

If anyone is genuinely insulted then they seriously need to lighten up.

This is really the only part of KM's opinion that I generally find unreasonable - that another composer has never written something that equals Williams' work.

We can argue the merits of LotR/SW/RCP till long after the cows have come home and died of old age, but this generalisation that Williams is so skilled and versatile that no one can better him is just the biggest load of rubbish.

I've never understood your beef with this - some people prefer Williams' work to others, why is that so difficult to comprehend? And KM has Williams scores he dislikes and non-Williams scores he likes, so it's not a blind generalisation.

[Joey]

john is the best, there are no others that can compare to him currently living, but the others have their own virtues. we all have enough time in our lives to enjoy more than one composer.

[Richard Penna]

This exchange sums up my feeling beautifully:

The thread title question is a better one. The actual poll is quite extreme in the options.

John Williams?

Or Michael Giacchino, Jerry Goldsmith, Ennio Morricone, James Newton Howard, Danny Elfman, John Powell, Hans Zimmer, Alexandre Desplat, and Thomas Newman?

The answer is obvious IMO.

The problem is, Koray, you really think Giacchino and some of those other guys have equal or superior composing skills than Williams. A bit like Blumenkhol

I listen to plenty of other stuff , but I do have a problem when some proclaim the music of Lost is equal or superior to anything Williams has ever composed.

Williams a great composer? Hell yes.

But it's 'problematic' that this fine list of composers could write something to equal the emotional impact and skill of Williams' music?

[Stefancos]

What I find problematic is that you insist KM is being bothersome because he has higher standard then you.