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The Commercial Felony Streaming Act (CFSA) Stop Online Piracy Act (SOPA) and Protect IP Act (PIPA) Thread


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#121 Blumenkohl

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Posted 15 January 2012 - 01:58 AM

I'm curious how you believe those incompetent companies should adapt to the challenges of this digital 21st century - and I truly mean that. If you have some solutions, I'd like to hear them, because I've had a tough time figuring out how to fix the situation.


The complaints against the monetary damage incurred by piracy have realistically negligible consumer associated opportunity costs. Incompetent companies in the industry would have you believe that online piracy costs the economy...for example $250 billion per year.

The assumption is that if 10,000 people for example download my $1.00 song, then I have lost $10,000 in business.

This assumes that every single one of those 10,000 people that downloaded my song would have purchased it if they had not pirated it and assuming, here's the critical part, I had it made available to them.

But instead, if you approach the problem with depth rather than simple sweeping assumptions you discover that the vast majority of the piracy taking place doesn't incur an outside opportunity cost to the company, because the company doesn't take the steps to capitalize on their intellectual property. The opportunity cost is internal, they're missing the sales because of their own incompetence.

Say of the 10,000 songs that were pirated, 6,000 were downloaded in Spain. But my song is not available for purchase in Spain. If I don't sell my song in Spain, then I cannot realistically claim that's how much money piracy has cost me in Spain. I don't OFFER the residents of Spain a legitimate means of giving me their money. How can I complain that Spain is costing me $6,000 of lost sales? I'm costing myself $6,000 by not offering my song in a country with that much demand for the song. It's my problem as a business.

And what's left over usually tends to be delivery, pricing, and convenience problems. If I'm now a movie studio and release a movie on Blu-Ray only, but 50% of the country wants it in a downloadable form and the other 50% in DVD form, I'm missing sales by my own stupidity. When it comes to piracy, the actual number of what can reasonably be considered theft, or financial damage incurred by a third-party to a company makes up a tiny percentage of the cake. The vast majority of piracy happens because the business is out of touch.

I've seen this with our own business. When we excluded or poorly supported some markets, piracy was insane there, but when we provided competitive pricing, convenience, and support, piracy numbers in that market crashed and burned. Hell, just PROVIDING the product in a market you ignored will slash piracy in that market.

Piracy is not theft. It's poorly satisfied consumer demand.


Let me give you a practical example that will have immediate relevance. How much demand is there on this forum alone for Star Wars Prequel complete scores and Harry Potter complete scores?

If these things leak and you download them, are you financially damaging LucasFilm or Warner Bros. money by acquiring something that they can't make any money off because they don't offer it?

Consider how much the movie studios bitch about piracy in Southeast Asia. They treat the region like shit, don't release half the movies there, and then bitch about how people trying to acquire something they themselves are not trying to make money off of is financially damaging them.

[Edit]

I just read this on Ars Technica....NBC Universal's own hired research firm looked at piracy and basically said what I just said to NBC Universal:

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2012/01/forget-sopa-copyright-owners-must-build-a-better-bittorrent.ars?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss

[/Edit]

#122 Datameister

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 08:52 AM

Fair enough. :) But there's still the problem of the countless individuals who pirate music simply because they see no reason to "waste" their money buying the product, even though it's easily available in their area and for a very reasonable price. One could argue (as you essentially did) that most of these individuals probably wouldn't have been buying the product anyway, so the copyright holder isn't losing any money, and I do see some validity to that argument. It's a little hard to put into words why I'm not wholly comfortable with it.

#123 Marian Schedenig

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 11:53 PM

Of course there's a percentage of people who do cost money buy copying instead of buying. But they've been there at least since cassette tapes. And I suppose at least some of that cost is balanced by the fact that modern distribution channels give you a much wider audience.

#124 indy4

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 03:27 AM

English Wikipedia's shutting down for 24 hours in protest.

http://wikimediafoun...i-SOPA_blackout
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#125 Drax

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 08:10 AM

DOA
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#126 BloodBoal

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 08:26 AM

PIPA? Middletons be damned!

#127 Datameister

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 04:03 PM

No big surprises here. This thing was too widely reviled to end up going through.

#128 Faleel

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 04:19 PM

Until next time....

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#129 king mark

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 05:06 PM

That's good news

But PIPA is basically the same thing and still alive. I think they wrote 2 bills on purpose so the "least worse" one would sneak by

I just hope this LAMAR SMITH's political career is over because of this

#130 Henry Buck

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 10:39 PM

edit: never mind.

#131 Blumenkohl

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 10:43 PM

SOPA is not even close to dead. It's interesting to see how the media owned by the companies behind SOPA keep pushing every delay as a "SOPA being dead." Note that the language in the media about this is "shelved until consensus is reached." One does not kill something and then reach consensus on it. That should set off red flags.

SOPA is alive and kicking.

#132 Chaac

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 10:44 PM

Meaning that thanks to downloading much more music is being consumed than ever before. Most downloads are adding to, rather than replacing, legitimate sales. But it's just a thought.

That's probably true, for me and for many people I know. I wouldn't be wanting to buy for myself several things if I hadn't downloaded them repeadly before until I became a fan.

When its music, books, films, I want to buy things I know I'm going to like or that I already find special somehow. I find that the general public downloading things is a way for them to get interested or hooked on several cultural aspects in a way they wouldn't be otherwise.

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#133 Blumenkohl

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 10:47 PM

Again to reiterate the point that SOPA and PIPA are not dead:

http://arstechnica.c...se-of-power.ars

#134 Marian Schedenig

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 10:59 PM

A so-called “blackout” is yet another gimmick, albeit a dangerous one, designed to punish elected and administration officials who are working diligently to protect American jobs from foreign criminals.


So to heat up the whole matter even more, the MPAA is now throwing xenophobia into the mix?

#135 Chaac

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 11:36 PM

For them it's easier to call us criminals if we aren't Usamerican.

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#136 Wojo

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 04:19 AM

I say we nuke the entire interwebz from orbit.

It's the only way to be sure.

@Wojo: stop being facetious.


#137 king mark

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 05:47 AM

Well wiki game guides is blacked out now with a link to petition against these bills .Looks like it's getting serious

Can't look up hints in Skyrim Wiki

http://en.wikipedia....i/Google_Search

#138 Trent Bennett

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 06:18 AM

Apparently the White House has said they will NOT support this bill. Hopefully they actually keep their word on that.
""Fear. Fear attracts the fearful. The strong, the weak, the corrupt, the innocent. Fear is my ally."

#139 BloodBoal

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 06:22 AM

Well wiki game guides is blacked out now with a link to petition against these bills .Looks like it's getting serious

Can't look up hints in Skyrim Wiki

http://en.wikipedia....i/Google_Search


Apparently the White House has said they will NOT support this bill. Hopefully they actually keep their word on that.


Does that mean that Obama is also trying to access Wiki game guides to finish Skyrim? That's the only explanation.

#140 tharpdevenport

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 07:12 AM

The issue is far, far more braoder than whether or not people do pirate stuff. So much so I won't even get into it, but rather just stick with easy points, no doubt addressed in the thread already:


Printers were going to ruin anything that can be copied and printed out for sale, OMG*!

VHS tapes were goign to killl the movie industry, OMG*!

CD-R's are going to steal all their profit, OMG*!

DVD-R's will hurt the DVD sales, OMG*!


Let me check...
Nope -- printing industry is alive and well, in spite of people being able to print their own crap out.

VHS tapes...
Nope -- Hollywood, by the grace of their false idol God, somehow survived. In fact, they helped to kill the VHS and push DVD's, which of course spawned DVD-R's.

DVD's? Nope, now they'e on the way out (well, nothing really ever dies, but still)



I don't keep up with technology today; is Hollywood now screaming:
"iPods will kill _____, OMG!"
?


OMG = Obama Must Go
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PLEASE NOTE: I don't sell CD-Rs, or trade MP3s -- do NOT contact me asking for those; I also don't do downloading/uploading. Just trade, CD-Rs.

#141 Koray Savas

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 04:27 PM

Sign Google's petition to stop the bills.

In 50 years Herrmann will be forgotten.


#142 Datameister

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 05:17 PM

The issue is far, far more braoder than whether or not people do pirate stuff. So much so I won't even get into it, but rather just stick with easy points, no doubt addressed in the thread already:


Printers were going to ruin anything that can be copied and printed out for sale, OMG*!

VHS tapes were goign to killl the movie industry, OMG*!

CD-R's are going to steal all their profit, OMG*!

DVD-R's will hurt the DVD sales, OMG*!


Let me check...
Nope -- printing industry is alive and well, in spite of people being able to print their own crap out.

VHS tapes...
Nope -- Hollywood, by the grace of their false idol God, somehow survived. In fact, they helped to kill the VHS and push DVD's, which of course spawned DVD-R's.

DVD's? Nope, now they'e on the way out (well, nothing really ever dies, but still)



I don't keep up with technology today; is Hollywood now screaming:
"iPods will kill _____, OMG!"
?


OMG = Obama Must Go


Sure - except this time, digital distribution really is killing off the CD. I get funny looks when I tell people I recently bought a CD rather than just downloading the music illegally. It's fundamentally different from all of these because it's such an easy, free, far-reaching form of distribution.

#143 king mark

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 08:06 PM

The wiki blackout should really make many people aware of these bills, and that it's just not an obscure thing that only a few nerds need to be concerned with

I think the real reason that some congressmen are supporting this bill is because it englobes counterfeit medication, which is a REAL problem unlike file sharing. They should make TOTALLY SEPERATE bill if they want to go after counterfiet medications because it has nothing to do with movies/music and copyrighted images and generally screwing up the Internet

#144 Jason LeBlanc

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 08:11 PM

I wish Google had the balls to actually black out their search engine for a day intead of just having a link on their logo

reddit is blacked out too, but only for 12 hours

craigslist looks like its blacked out but there's a link to the full site at the bottom of the splash screen
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#145 BloodBoal

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 08:13 PM

I think JWFan should black out. For freedom!

#146 king mark

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 08:13 PM

Well it leaves open that if they still try to cram these bills down our throats, more severe actions can be taken

I think Google would black out if they feel threatened enough

#147 Stefancos

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 08:14 PM

I think JWFan should black out. For freedom!


No way!

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#148 Trent Bennett

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 08:40 PM


I think JWFan should black out. For freedom!


No way!


I agree with Steef. I also agree with Jason that Google should shutdown their servers for about 24 hours. Hell most of your major search engines should shutdown their serves for 24 hours.

By the way the message is being hammered into The Senate right now.

http://gizmodo.com/5...enates-websites
""Fear. Fear attracts the fearful. The strong, the weak, the corrupt, the innocent. Fear is my ally."

#149 Blumenkohl

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 08:49 PM

Google could shut down search for 24 hours, but then no one could search for what SOPA is all about. So I can see them not halting search.

They can't shut down any of the Google apps as they have a 99.9% uptime Service Level Agreements and would therefore be liable for the downtime.

#150 king mark

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 08:52 PM

Apparently the White House has said they will NOT support this bill. Hopefully they actually keep their word on that.


Well I think anyone who would sign this into law = re-election death penalty

I have zero interest in "moral and "social" issues Republicans and Democrats keep fighting about.. but something that affects me in everyday life like the Internet...that would be an automatic vote for the other guy from me

#151 Wojo

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Posted 19 January 2012 - 01:19 AM

And if I was a politician in Washington in favor of SOPA and the like, I would be more pleased to keep receiving funding from the lobbyists in the entertainment industry than in whatever the "kiddies' social problems" are. Then again, I would be so out of touch with my voting base, that I wouldn't be phased one bit by a site like Wikipedia going down, when I would have aides who know how to read a newspaper or consult specialists for information.

These petitions won't help and the internet as we know it is doomed.

@Wojo: stop being facetious.


#152 Chaac

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Posted 19 January 2012 - 01:35 AM

The United States industry is not going to let go a chance of controlling the Internet of the whole world.



We need more Internets, maybe. The Internet as a net of Internets instead of just one.

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#153 Drax

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Posted 19 January 2012 - 09:21 AM

Maddox weighs in.
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#154 Koray Savas

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Posted 19 January 2012 - 08:42 PM

Megaupload got shut down. All my mussssiiiccc!!!!

In 50 years Herrmann will be forgotten.


#155 Blumenkohl

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Posted 19 January 2012 - 09:11 PM

http://www.google.co...11fc307d67b674d

Ouch.

#156 Henry Buck

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Posted 19 January 2012 - 09:38 PM

Maddox weighs in.

He articulates pretty well why I haven't bothered to participate in these protest fads. I wonder how many would be willing to actually boycott the entertainment companies they've become so dependent on. Probably not many.

#157 Ricard

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Posted 21 January 2012 - 12:29 PM

I think JWFan should black out.


Again?
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#158 Stefancos

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Posted 21 January 2012 - 04:04 PM

Is Multiupload down for anyone else?

Why is that black sedan parked in front of my building?

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#159 Jason LeBlanc

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Posted 21 January 2012 - 05:48 PM

Multiupload is working for me, but its very slow
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#160 Luke Skywalker

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Posted 21 January 2012 - 05:53 PM

Will i be able to download 'Red tails' without remorse if it is never ever released in spain??
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I hope Episode III is Called 'Revenge of the Sith'





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