189 replies to this topic

[gkgyver]

I very much doubt that.

[Stefancos]

Some reveal everything to you at the first turn. Leaving nothing to discover later on.

Not saying War Horse is like that though...

[Blumenkohl]

I'd actually agree with Steef. In fact, I think that reasoning is why I am gradually holding War Horse in higher and higher esteem.

When I first heard it, it seemed slow and plodding, it wasn't quite as immediately gratifying to me. As I listen more and more and begin to grasp the context of the score my appreciation for its individual tracks started going up. And the discovery continues.

I've always said around here that I think the best music sounds deceptively simple. And yet when you closely inspect it, you realize that simplicity is the result of an intense amount of thinking and work on the part of the composer. The number of notes may not be huge, but so much thought has been put in to each and every one that each beat of the music is a story on its own. With scores of that caliber, as you listen and listen, you find something new every time, no matter how long you've been listening.

"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication" - Leonardo Da Vinci

[Stefancos]

What an articulate and insightful post.

Just a pity that that picture is under it...

[Blumenkohl]

I'm gonna fix that just for you. Give me a minute.

[Richard Penna]

I'd actually agree with Steef. In fact, I think that reasoning is why I am gradually holding War Horse in higher and higher esteem.

When I first heard it, it seemed slow and plodding, it wasn't quite as immediately gratifying to me. As I listen more and more and begin to grasp the context of the score my appreciation for its individual tracks started going up. And the discovery continues.

+1

I had to get used to the slow, deliberate style of this score, and I didn't find it immediately gratifying.

In fact, the piano solo in Remembering Emilie did nothing for me at first, but once I listened to the album in order and I heard the rendition in The Reunion, it suddenly opened up.

This score is brimming with emotion that Tintin completely lacks for me.

[Hlao-roo]

My reaction to War Horse is that it sounds deceptively fresh. I would say that it comes closest to any Williams score in a long time to creating its own sound world, its own distinct soundscape. And that's an achievement unto itself. Clearly there was a connection Williams felt with the film and its visuals that manifested itself in his music.

But -- and of course this is where the heavy subjectivity is fully evident -- there's a point in listening to this score at which the initial freshness gives way to something that seems fairly well trodden -- just in a different guise. The protestation here is that to expect anything beyond that is to expect the composer to deny his own style. But I will maintain that when I listen to "Dartmoor, 1912" or "No Man's Land," I can hear the gears grinding, I can hear the noise of Williams the craftsman at work in his shop. When I listen to "The Mecha World" or "Abandoned in the Woods," Williams the magician the swiftly and imperceptibly transports me to another world.

[publicist]

I halfway agree, the swollen pathos of some of the later cues (and the big action sound of NO MAN'S LAND) sounds very much like the same hoary old Hollywood clichés we're used to - and nobody would congratulate i. e. JNH on accomplishing that - but it's in the more elaborate rural writing in the first half i find real pleasures.

The HOMECOMING cue is as close as you can get to concert music, so i guess what's contained therein is what Williams found at the heart of the movie.

I'd say a good 8 out of ten in my book.

[crocodile]

The closest to this one is, I think, Far and Away. In terms of tone and quality, I mean.

But -- and of course this is where the heavy subjectivity is fully evident -- there's a point in listening to this score at which the initial freshness gives way to something that seems fairly well trodden -- just in a different guise. The protestation here is that to expect anything beyond that is to expect the composer to deny his own style. But I will maintain that when I listen to "Dartmoor, 1912" or "No Man's Land," I can hear the gears grinding, I can hear the noise of Williams the craftsman at work in his shop. When I listen to "The Mecha World" or "Abandoned in the Woods," Williams the magician the swiftly and imperceptibly transports me to another world.

These are good points, of course. But is it fair to expect Williams to reinvent the wheel this time around? It's conservative and old-fashioned film as they get. Besides, he's not the kind of composer who's made his name by bending the rules.

Karol

[gkgyver]

Well, I seem to be in the minority here.

I was blown away when I first heard it, and I still am.

[Incanus]

Well, I seem to be in the minority here.

I was blown away when I first heard it, and I still am.

Yeah I actually had the same reaction. I was blown away by this music on my first listen and all the numerous subsequent listens have not diminished that feeling. It has heart and soul of a classic JW score, dash of that innocent wide eyed wonder, the familiar yet fresh Williams sound and a delightfully luminous spirit. I feel that the music somehow gathers all that is great about Williams' music from different decades into a one score.

[Jason LeBlanc]

I also agree. Everytime I listen to the CD I find new parts to enjoy and i never get bored at all

[crocodile]

Did I say I wasn't blown away?

Karol

[Jason LeBlanc]

I don't understand gkyver's post either. The score is pretty much universally praised by everyone who's heard it, and then he posts that he must be in the minority that he was blown away by it >shrug<

[gkgyver]

I thought the discussion was whether you are taken by it upon your first listening or whether you need to warm up to it, as those statements clearly say:

I'd actually agree with Steef. In fact, I think that reasoning is why I am gradually holding War Horse in higher and higher esteem.

When I first heard it, it seemed slow and plodding, it wasn't quite as immediately gratifying to me. As I listen more and more and begin to grasp the context of the score my appreciation for its individual tracks started going up. And the discovery continues.

+1

I had to get used to the slow, deliberate style of this score, and I didn't find it immediately gratifying.

In fact, the piano solo in Remembering Emilie did nothing for me at first, but once I listened to the album in order and I heard the rendition in The Reunion, it suddenly opened up.

[Jason LeBlanc]

There were some recent posts along those lines, but overall people have been extremely positive about it. I think its a wonderful score, easily my favorite JW drama score

[Richard Penna]

It's easily in my top 10 Williams scores. It just took a few proper listens to get up there.

[Ricard]

How can a score that has just been released be in anyone's top 10 or even become someone's favorite JW drama score? Have you guys even had time to compare it to every other Williams score from the past 40 years?

[Hlao-roo]

It should be obvious to anyone that knows anything, Ricard, that War Horse is the 156th greatest film score of all time.

[crocodile]

Amen to that!

Karol

[Incanus]

Hallelujah to that!

[Jason LeBlanc]

How can a score that has just been released be in anyone's top 10 or even become someone's favorite JW drama score? Have you guys even had time to compare it to every other Williams score from the past 40 years?

I've listened to a bunch of JW drama scores in my day and I like War Horse more than all of them. What's wrong with that?

[Blumenkohl]

How can a score that has just been released be in anyone's top 10 or even become someone's favorite JW drama score? Have you guys even had time to compare it to every other Williams score from the past 40 years?

They might just have good intuition.

[Chaac]

I usually need to give stuff time to see it with more perpective.

[Blumenkohl]

It takes a couple of months for me.

But others can pin it down in one listen.

[Jason LeBlanc]

I'm not putting it in any lists or anything, I'm simply saying I like it more than his other drama scores.

Way too soon to be putting either score on any lists IMHO, especially since I haven't seen either movie

[Incanus]

I think the viewing of the film will only raise this score's worth in my eyes.

[Richard Penna]

I'm not putting it in any lists or anything, I'm simply saying I like it more than his other drama scores.

Way too soon to be putting either score on any lists IMHO, especially since I haven't seen either movie

I don't think it's too soon, in terms of listenability.

I've heard the album all the way through at least twice now and I already prefer listening to it than many of JW's other scores. Hence, it goes higher on the theoretical list.

For Tintin, viewing the film actually didn't help much; I still think the same of it (i.e. a decent score, but not one that really appeals to me much).

[Ricard]

How can a score that has just been released be in anyone's top 10 or even become someone's favorite JW drama score? Have you guys even had time to compare it to every other Williams score from the past 40 years?

I've listened to a bunch of JW drama scores in my day and I like War Horse more than all of them. What's wrong with that?

There's obviously nothing wrong with that. But it puzzles me nonetheless. I would understand it if you meant that these are the scores you listen to the most these days (for whatever reason). But my personal favorites (or best, greatest, top x, whatever, it's all the same) are the result of decades of listening and experiencing the music countless times. I think some perspective is needed.

[Stefancos]

I agree.

Remember all discussion there was about The Patriot, how brilliant it was. It was like Far and Away but better, best JW drama score ever etc....

Now it's barely mentioned anymore.

[Sandor]

I agree.

Remember all discussion there was about The Patriot, how brilliant it was. It was like Far and Away but better, best JW drama score ever etc....

Now it's barely mentioned anymore.

Funny. I don't remember that discussion at all. The score was given a somewhat cold reception.

[JamieC]

Slightly tangential, this, but I hope interesting: if you enjoy the English pastoral influence heard in the War Horse music, you might really enjoy the range of Christmas music that the great Ralph Vaughan Williams composed. I think it's gorgeous, both the orchestral and the choral work.

[KK.]

I just read this analysis (because I just listened to this score today). Fantastic stuff Incanus!

I must say that like many others, I am pretty blown away by this score (as I expected to be). There is so much beauty in this score, I can't help but love it (might be because I'm a big fan of Ralph Vaugh Willaims too). What I really love about the score is how the whole experience is a journey. The way Williams crafts his themes, shapes them, moulds them and ultimately transforms them for the ending is quite impressive. The maturation of the musical ideas is stunning.

But I feel that I definitely need to listen to this a lot more to truly appreciate the beauty of it. I hope to have a review of my own completed for next week.

- KK

[KK.]

By the way, am I the only one who thinks that the "Friendship" theme at the end sounds more like a sorrowful variation of the Dartmoor theme? In fact, the Dartmoor theme doesn't really come in Act III of the score until "Homecoming" which is really just a suite of all the themes. So, my theory is that the "Friendship" theme is really an evolved version of the Dartmoor theme, after the tragedies of the war.

- KK

[Incanus]

By the way, am I the only one who thinks that the "Friendship" theme at the end sounds more like a sorrowful variation of the Dartmoor theme? In fact, the Dartmoor theme doesn't really come in Act III of the score until "Homecoming" which is really just a suite of all the themes. Hence, my theory is that the "Friendship" theme is really an evolved version of the Dartmoor theme, after the tragedies of the war.

- KK

Thank you for your kind words in the above post K.K.
And you make an interesting observation! I think one of our other members (filmmusic) noted in this thread how the main thematic ideas contain common elements with each other so it could be that interconnectivity you are hearing or it could well be as you say, a different development of the Dartmoor idea.

[Joe Brausam]

By the way, am I the only one who thinks that the &quot;Friendship&quot; theme at the end sounds more like a sorrowful variation of the Dartmoor theme? In fact, the Dartmoor theme doesn't really come in Act III of the score until &quot;Homecoming&quot; which is really just a suite of all the themes. Hence, my theory is that the &quot;Friendship&quot; theme is really an evolved version of the Dartmoor theme, after the tragedies of the war.

- KK

Nah, I agree with your observation. I've felt that way all along about that theme too. It seems like a natural musical development of it, to me.

[Hlao-roo]

I agree.

Remember all discussion there was about The Patriot, how brilliant it was. It was like Far and Away but better, best JW drama score ever etc....

Now it's barely mentioned anymore.

Funny. I don't remember that discussion at all. The score was given a somewhat cold reception.

There was no such discussion at JWFAN (or whatever it may have been called at the time). War Horse's reception has been markedly different, despite not being a markedly better score.

[Sandor]

I agree.

Remember all discussion there was about The Patriot, how brilliant it was. It was like Far and Away but better, best JW drama score ever etc....

Now it's barely mentioned anymore.

Funny. I don't remember that discussion at all. The score was given a somewhat cold reception.

There was no such discussion at JWFAN (or whatever it may have been called at the time). War Horse's reception has been markedly different, despite not being a markedly better score.

Isn't it more reasonable to conclude that War Horse's reception has been so markedly different because the score is simply a much better, emotionally more appealing score than The Patriot, despite your own evaluation of the score...?

[publicist]

Isn't it more reasonable to conclude that War Horse's reception has been so markedly different because the score is simply a much better, emotionally more appealing score than The Patriot, despite your own evaluation of the score...?

Or everyone got dumber and easier to please in-between...

[Stefancos]

Everyone got more desperate for JW to write a masterpiece...