189 replies to this topic

[Stefancos]

Sigh....

[publicist]

Sigh all you want. Which reminds me that DRACULA now holds the distinction of being the only remaining shitty release from his wonder years. Way to go, LLL!

[Sandor]

Yeah. Apart from JP and possibly the first Potter there was a huge drop of quality after TOD...

Yeah, Born On The Fourth Of July, Hook, Home Alone, Jurassic Park, Schindler's List, Harry Potter, ... A HUGE drop....

The thing is, most artists "suffer" from a creative peak during their careers. Williams had his from 1975 to 1982. He delivered a string of some of the greatest scores ever written within a relatively short timeframe. After his peak, he is still producing excellent scores. However; the quality he produced during his peak-years will never be equaled.

[Ricard]

The thing is, most artists "suffer" from a creative peak during their careers. Williams had his from 1975 to 1982. He delivered a string of some of the greatest scores ever written within a relatively short timeframe. After his peak, he is still producing excellent scores. However; the quality he produced during his peak-years will never be equaled.

I agree, except for me it's from 1975 to 1984.

[Joey]

The thing is, most artists "suffer" from a creative peak during their careers. Williams had his from 1975 to 1982. He delivered a string of some of the greatest scores ever written within a relatively short timeframe. After his peak, he is still producing excellent scores. However; the quality he produced during his peak-years will never be equaled.

I agree, except for me it's from 1975 to 1984.

the quality and quantity of work during that period is unmatched by any contemporaries, or John himself in later years. Still for a 1 month release period of these two scores it's stands pretty damned high. They are so terrific as stand alones I'm very excited to hear them in context within the film.

[Hlao-roo]

Williams's peak started in the sixties, and it hasn't ended yet.

[Jason LeBlanc]

[Ricard]

That's another way to look at it.

[king mark]

Yeah. Apart from JP and possibly the first Potter there was a huge drop of quality after TOD...

I think it's because the Star Wars films ended and Spielberg didn't make fun movies for a while . But I extend that period to 1986 because I include Amazing Stories The Mission and Spacecamp .I liked the Spacecamp score as much as E.T. back then

1986-1999:
By around 1989 I remember I was a bit depressed with the new JW scores for Oliver Stone films, Presumed Innocent and Always . The Home Alone scores weren't up to 1975-1986 amazingness . Bright points were Last Crusade , Hook and JP ( at least the first half of the album). The lowest point in my fandom was mid-late 90's with Sabrina, Sleepers, Seven Years in Tibet ,Amistad and Rosewood back to back.


TPM ,A.I. and Sorcerer's Stone kinda put things back into place.

[Faleel]

So basically you mean the suspense thrillers were too much "downers" for you?

[king mark]

I like them more now, but I really struggled with Born on the Fourth of July and JFK back then . By 1997 with Rosewood I was worried we'd never get a classic JW score again and I didn't like The Lost World that much (still don't) except for the main theme and a few individual tracks

[Faleel]

I sort of feel that way with some of JW's older scores like TPA, and BS.

[king mark]

I feel War Horse is more Far and Away and Patriot quality with somewhat better themes , based on the samples we have of course.

[publicist]

1986-1999:
By around 1989 I remember I was a bit depressed with the new JW scores for Oliver Stone films, Presumed Innocent and Always . The Home Alone scores weren't up to 1975-1986 amazingness . Bright points were Last Crusade , Hook and JP ( at least the first half of the album). The lowest point in my fandom was mid-late 90's with Sabrina, Sleepers, Seven Years in Tibet ,Amistad and Rosewood back to back.

You are......insane.

BOTFJ, HOME ALONE >>>>>>> SPACECAMP, HOOK, JP. They show a Williams not vegetating in a musical wake coma. ALWAYS is fucking boring, though.

[king mark]

Also during that time Goldsmith (post 1986) started to disappoint me so it didn't bode well for my film score fan future

BOTFJ, HOME ALONE >>>>>>> SPACECAMP, HOOK, JP. They show a Williams not vegetating in a musical wake coma.

No way

[Alejandro]

War Horse is good, but its no Jaws or Close Encounters.

It seems a lot of film music fans define Williams with his output from 75-82. I think those years were very non-Williams. The pre-1975 and post-1982 Williams I believe have been consistent in quality, which is fantastic. In fact, if I had to choose between having stuff 75-82 but nothng else, and everything except for 75-82, I would choose the latter. Meaning, I would happily give up Star Wars, Jaws, and Superman if I get to keep his 90's, 00's, and 60's/early 70s scores. People are too attached to those few years where he was trying something new.

[publicist]

Also during that time Goldsmith (post 1986) started to disappoint me so it didn't bode well for my film score fan future

BOTFJ, HOME ALONE >>>>>>> SPACECAMP, HOOK, JP. They show a Williams not vegetating in a musical wake coma.

No way

Ass.

But what's the score on WAR HORSE now? I only listened to the clips form the radio station multiple times and one cue called PLOWING which i found better than the clips, i smell respectable Williams located somewhere between THE RIVER, FAR AND AWAY, ANGELA'S ASHES and AMISTAD. The emotional pull harks back to pre-1993 Williams in the PLOWING cue.

[king mark]

I don;t know about War Horse, I'm not supposed to have listened to the c.d.

[Stefancos]

It seems a lot of film music fans define Williams with his output from 75-82. I think those years were very non-Williams.

Insane!

[Maurizio]

I think charts and "best of" lists speak more about our perception of music and our emotional attachment to it than the actual quality of the music itself. The majority of older Williams' aficionados became attached to the Maestro's music during the so-called "peak years" (i.e. from Jaws/Star Wars to Temple of Doom)

I for one find very difficult to make comparison charts when it comes to Williams and his music. Sure, I have more deep emotional attachment to some works than others, but that's frankly a very subjective POV. But Williams' output has been so consistent in all departments that it's somewhat useless try to rank his works. Of course this doesn't mean that we should worship every single thing he has done, but my feeling is that we should put more perspective in our judgements. When we analyze the work of composers like Shostakovich, Prokofiev, Herrmann or Korngold do we always bring our the argument "Oh, he's damn good, but he never peaked himself again after that period" etc.? No, we take their work and enjoy them while putting them in their own right historical/aesthetical perspective.

That's why I'm constantly impressed at Williams' ability as a composer. I would say that I'm probably more impressed today than I was when I started to listen to his music.

[Ricard]

It seems a lot of film music fans define Williams with his output from 75-82. I think those years were very non-Williams.

Tell that to all those who fell in love with his music during that period, myself included.

People are too attached to those few years where he was trying something new.

Who are you to tell me that I'm too attached to anything?

[Hlao-roo]

Far and Away is on a completely different level from War Horse. As is Angela's Ashes.

The Patriot is generally a more satisfying listen, with a more expansive emotional palette and a knockout love theme that eats the "bonding" theme from War Horse for lunch.

One score with which War Horse does compare favorably is Amistad, although the latter's highlights are as good as anything in the former.

[Stefancos]

Who are you to tell me that I'm too attached to anything?

Hey watch it Ricard. This is Alejandro we're talking about...



For me the essence of John Williams brilliance lies in his 1975 - 1984 period!

[Ricard]

Period!

[Stefancos]

It would have been more effective if you locked the thread after typing "Period!"

[Ricard]

YES!

[Jason LeBlanc]

John Williams has been writing brilliant music from his beginning as a composer until... well probably until the day he dies. Everyone will of course have their own personal preferences of when his "peak" was. It's certainly an interesting topic to discuss, but shouldn't be taking place in a thread dedicated to the themes of the War Horse OST and Incanus' wonderful review of said OST.

[Ricard]

You should know better, Stefan...

[Jason LeBlanc]

Question for those of you who have seen the film: Is the OST in chronological order?

I would guess it either already is completely chronological, or if not then only one or two cues tacked into the end of a OST track are out of place and that's it.

[Stefancos]

You should know better, Stefan...

Huh?

[tpigeon]

Question for those of you who have seen the film: Is the OST in chronological order?

I would guess it either already is completely chronological, or if not then only one or two cues tacked into the end of a OST track are out of place and that's it.

Based on the track titles and what I've heard of the clips so far, I would say that the album presentation of the score is pretty in-line with the film I can say for sure that the last four or five tracks are chronological. I'll check back next week about the first 10 tracks or so.

[Mr Big]

Am I the only one who is getting a Star Trek vibe from the "War Theme"? It's mostly just the first four notes but whenever I hear it I think of the Enterprise flying over a WWI battlefield.

[Blumenkohl]

May I just say...

3:15-3:40 of "Bringing Joey Home and Bonding"

Makes me misty eyed. Every damn time. It is hear-rending and beautiful in a way only Jerry Goldsmith and John Williams can be with their gentler music. The echoing and lingering melody...held by the players just a moment longer, followed by a moment of hesitation just before the strings gently ease into deeper chords that tear your heart out.

Words cannot do justice to the magic that takes place from 3:22-3:32 within that frame of time.

And it's all fucking buried in the middle of a comedy track. No other composer working today could accomplish such an amazing contrast, yet alone accomplish it so well.

Onions get chopped every time I listen to this lovely track...

[Pasi Tiitinen]

You gotta love the french horn...

[Richard Penna]

I have so many misty-eyed moments in this score.

- The statement at the beginning of Remembering Emilie.
- The Homecoming, 3:35....I'm in heaven. Particularly at 3:50 when those strings make such a subtle base.
- Learning the Call - 0:30 - don'tcha just love those 'rolling' strings. I can picture a horseride over the landscape.

And I'm loving to bits the buildup throughout Plowing. Even when it lowers slightly at the 3 min point, there's still an undercurrent there which so satisfyingly culminates in the two huge thematic statements and lovely woodwind solo.

The themes in this score are literally rolling through my brain. This really kicks KotCS completely out of the park in quality for me.

[Blumenkohl]

I have so many misty-eyed moments in this score.

- The statement at the beginning of Remembering Emilie.
- The Homecoming, 3:35....I'm in heaven. Particularly at 3:50 when those strings make such a subtle base.
- Learning the Call - 0:30 - don'tcha just love those 'rolling' strings. I can picture a horseride over the landscape.

And I'm loving to bits the buildup throughout Plowing. Even when it lowers slightly at the 3 min point, there's still an undercurrent there which so satisfyingly culminates in the two huge thematic statements and lovely woodwind solo.

The themes in this score are literally rolling through my brain. This really kicks KotCS completely out of the park in quality for me.

I agree with everything you said...down to the other moments.

With each listen, this score creeps further and further up my John Williams favorites. I don't want to be hasty, but there is a possibility when all is settled and done this will be a top 10 or even top fiver.

And finally, to the lone three people disappointed by this amazing score:

Sucks for you!

[gkgyver]

War Horse is easily the best (as in "most accessible") Williams score since SS.

[Stefancos]

I found Tintin more accessible.

[gkgyver]

Upon hearing War Horse for the first time, I thought "this is a classic".

Didn't happen with Tintin.

[Stefancos]

Usually scores that sound brilliant at the first spin will later lose their appeal.