189 replies to this topic

[KK.]

I love the track "The Reunion". Its one of the best tracks in the score.

Fun Fact: Williams has had 3 tracks (as far as I remember) named "The Reunion". The two others from A.I. and War of Worlds. All of them being amongst the highlights of their respective scores.

Can anyone name any other "Reunions"...

[Incanus]

Sleepers score has also a track called Reunion and Finale which is a highlight of that score as well.

[publicist]

As i have listened now 5 times to it, final verdict is that it definitely seems to have clicked more with Williams' sensibilities than his last Spielberg score and can be put in the Top 5 of his post-2000 scores (where i'd also put AI, POTTER 1 or 3, Geisha and MR).

It's most similar to FAR AND AWAY, but seldom resorts to the grandiose banalities of that score. The country music draws from THE REIVERS and THE RIVER, a welcome compositional change of pace from the americana of his american films like AMISTAD etc. The first half is clearly the most colourful, with PLOWING being an early set piece which is a reminder why people become film music fans in the first place - it molds its thematic ideas into one great showstopper clearly telling a story in a wonderfully old-fashioned sense.

The middle half, when they leave the heartlands and come to the trenches unfortunately offers not much by comparison - bugle horn calls reminiscent of SPR and THE PATRIOT, somber chords here, a bit of frantic ostinatis there, it all doesn't add up to much till PULLING THE CANNON and NO MAN'S LAND, which gets the album back on track with more urgency and a final release of thundering action music, which is good but not overly innovative (it sounds more like Newton Howard and Horner than i would have anticipated).

The last tracks are reserved for the good 'ole homecomings and reunions, always with a tear of remembrance on the sleeve. Here Williams melks his sentimental americana theme, which is far from original but hands-down wins every BEST WAR HORSE THEME poll...people just like their mushy stuff. It goes thick on the unisono horns and gets the job done, but also foreshadows terrible kleenex time in the film. I don't know if it works, but it will be terrible if it doesn't.

The HOMECOMING concertizes the most important themes and shows that Williams surely found the heart of the movie in its pastoral settings and moods, which form the basis of the piece, which at one point rather glaringly quotes from the mushy theme, which doesn't gel well with the rest of it.

4/5 or 8/10

[crocodile]

I like the middle section of the album, actually. It makes for a nice break, as far as style and mood go. But yeah. it's a fair review.

Karol

[Hlao-roo]

If Far and Away can be accused of trafficking in "banalities," War Horse, let alone most of Williams's œuvre, can hardly be excepted.

Sleepers score has also a track called Reunion and Finale which is a highlight of that score as well.

It's not as mean and hip as "The Football Game," though.

[publicist]

If Far and Away can be accused of trafficking in "banalities," War Horse, let alone most of Williams's œuvre, can hardly be excepted.

WAR HORSE never resorts to STAR WARS tuttis and the underscore isn't as meandering. F&A has its virtues, but it's very modest in its aspirations.

[Chaac]

Tuttis are banal?

[publicist]

On their 10th repeat, recalling earlier films from an altogether different genre, they tend to be.

[Chaac]

So a composer can only do something so many times?

[publicist]

If they let him, he can do it hundreds of times, James Horner is the living proof. If that's the benchmark...

[Chaac]

If that's the benchmark...

What's the benchmark? How many times?

[publicist]

If that's the benchmark...

What's the benchmark? How many times?

Till even the fanboards start to vomit over the damn thing. This might mean a considerably larger number than 100!

[Charlie Brigden]

I love the track "The Reunion". Its one of the best tracks in the score.

Fun Fact: Williams has had 3 tracks (as far as I remember) named "The Reunion". The two others from A.I. and War of Worlds. All of them being amongst the highlights of their respective scores.

Can anyone name any other "Reunions"...

The original and best, from JANE EYRE.

[Maurizio]

In Far and Away there's a cue called "The Reunion" and it's indeed pretty lovely--I always loved the wistful flute solo that opens the piece.

[KK.]

I just completed my own analysis of the score:
http://musicmusekk.w...-john-williams/

In the review I mention how what Incanus calls the Friendship theme is arguably just a variation of the Dartmoor theme. Moreover, I've included how Williams very intelligently plays around with Joey's thematic material (two themes that Incanus calls the Playful Horse theme and Joey's New Friends). If you listen carefully, the first four notes of Joey's New Friends (or what I call his friendship theme) acts as a driving motif at 0:18 in Learning the Call. Just a few things I pointed out in the analysis.

Any criticism and feedback is much appreciated! And please leave a comment on the site if you get a chance
Thanks a million!

- KK

[Incanus]

I really enjoyed the review KK. Great observations and interpretations of the meaning of the music. Good work!

And yes the Dartmoor Theme and Friendship Theme might be the flipsides of the same coin. Indeed. I plan to revise my analysis as soon as I have seen the film to get a more accurate feel for the music in its dramatic setting.

[crumbs]

They're definitely connected. If he wrote a proper concert suite for the theme, I think you'd find they're just the A and B themes of the "War Horse" theme.

[Jason LeBlanc]

Having now seen the film, I would like to suggest some alternate theme names.

(MINOR SPOILERS, NOTHING MAJOR)


What Incanus calls The Dartmoor Theme is really Albert's Theme, IMO. It always plays in scenes featuring him specifically.

What Incanus calls The Bonding Theme or The Main Theme is really Joey's Theme, IMO. Its use is always for Joey, but not necessarily for Albert as well.

Now this explains why The Friendship Theme sounds like a blending of what Incanus called The Dartmoor Theme and The Bonding Theme - it's really a blending of Joey's Theme and Albert's Theme. Instead of The Friendship Theme, a better name is probably The Reunion Theme.

Also, what Incanus called Joey's New Friends Theme is definitely better described as Emilie's Theme.

The Narracott's Theme seems like an accurate description. A lot of times it is used for Albert's mother.

Not sure about The Nature Theme, Playful Horse, or The Discovery Theme. I'd have to see the film again.

[Incanus]

Great observations Jason! I was planning to do some fine tuning on the names of the themes once I have seen the film. I'll incorporate those changes into the analysis soon.

P.S. I did not name the Joey's New Friends Theme as Emilie's Theme, which I would have done in the first place, since it would have been a spoiler. I think the connection is fairly obvious. For obscurity's sake I had to use generic titles for some themes that were pretty clear to me from the start.

So I'll be doing a reworked version of the analysis based on your observations and after seeing the film myself.

[Jason LeBlanc]

When does it open in your country?

I wouldn't update the analysis until you've seen it yourself - its your interpretation of the themes after all, don't let my one viewing of the film have you change anything.

You can also always leave this main post as is - as a spoiler-free analysis of the score CD, and make a new thread for an analysis of the entire score, not just the OST, with different theme names. Just an idea.

[Incanus]

When does it open in your country?

I wouldn't update the analysis until you've seen it yourself - its your interpretation of the themes after all, don't let my one viewing of the film have you change anything.

You can also always leave this main post as is - as a spoiler-free analysis of the score CD, and make a new thread for an analysis of the entire score, not just the OST, with different theme names. Just an idea.

I think the film will come out here in January or February.

And I was indeed thinking of writing a separate analysis after seeing the film and elaborate on the music a bit more when I know the context.

[Pasi Tiitinen]

It is February 24th

[Mr Big]

The album now makes a lot more since now! I just found Albert's theme at the end of Pulling the Cannon. It's just the first 3 notes but it's there.
*Edit- Scratch that. I was thinking of the nature theme.

[Incanus]

It is February 24th

What? Why on earth are we one of the last ones to see it in Europe? The "on the edge of known civilization" syndrome strikes again I guess.

[KK.]

POSSIBLE SPOILERS BELOW:

I watched the film last night too and Jason's changes largely make sense. I would still however keep the Bonding Theme labeled as it is because it could still stand for how Joey bonds with the different characters. Also, its come to my attention that at certain times, the themes do get tossed around a bit. For instance, around the plowing scene, there is a statement of the War Theme on the woodwinds and I'm not sure why as there really is no mention of war at that scene (maybe foreshadowing?).

I still think that Joey's Theme is what Incanus calls the Playful Horse theme. I've pointed this out in my own analysis of the score, but Emilie's Theme is really harmonically linked to what Incanus calls the Playful Horse theme. So I think that theme specifically applies to the relationship between Emilie and Joey.

I'd still keep the Dartmoor Theme labelled as such as it just seems right to me (despite its many appearances with Albert). I think the theme continues to stand for Albert and the Dartmoor locale as a whole. Its more of a calling to Albert's home. So whenever it plays outside of Dartmoor, Albert's just thinking of home. And while it makes sense to label the final theme as the Reunion theme, I don't think one should overcomplicate the score as it continues to stand as a more evolved rendition of the Dartmoor/Albert theme. I still think it can stand for Albert and Dartmoor as a whole as when Albert returns with the horse at the end, what Jason labels as the Reunion theme plays out on the piano. So its in my continuous belief that the Dartmoor/Albert theme is evolved to attune to the changed experiences of the people of Dartmoor and more specifically, Albert and his family.

Finally, to those complaining about the lack of a dominant theme in War Horse. Well, there are several unreleased statements of the Bonding theme in the film which really makes the come out as quite dominant during the theatrical experience. Just thought I'd point that out.

- KK

[Pasi Tiitinen]

It is February 24th

What? Why on earth are we one of the last ones to see it in Europe? The "on the edge of known civilization" syndrome strikes again I guess.

It makes me very sad.

[Mr Big]

I think there is another theme. The Battalion Flag Theme, it starts out with the same 4 notes as Joey's theme but end in a minor statement. It is only heard once on the album (The early horn statement in Seeding and Horse Vs. Car) but is heard at least 3 times in the film.

[eitam]

It is February 24th

What? Why on earth are we one of the last ones to see it in Europe? The "on the edge of known civilization" syndrome strikes again I guess.

It makes me very sad.

It's released February 22th here in France. We are so lucky.

[KeyMs92]

Hi there, my first post
I didn't know there was such an active community related to John Williams' music, until today! A few days back I discovered this soundtrack and decided to make a thematic overview myself, just out of interest. I was suprised to see how many times themes are referenced throughout the soundtrack (I don't know if this is normal?). I was glad to see that my list and your list is pretty similar, except that I missed the 'Joey’s New Friends Theme'. I also had listed some small theme motives as a theme although these fragment are probably to subtle to be considered a theme reference.

The motive that really stood out for me in the soundtrack was the B-flat, E-flat, G motive, played on French horn as part of the Main Theme. BTW: take a look at this. I'm wondering what you think. I think this motive comes very close to the one in War Horse. Also pay attention to the setting...

Speaking of the Main Theme, I was interested in how it is build up harmonically. Am I right that it uses the I III IV chord progression in E-flat major? It seems to me this progression is used very often in film music and pop songs, although sometimes the minor version of the tonic is used and then the III IV progression in the major version. I'm very interested to hear what you think

[aviazn]

Woah, coming way late to this thread, but just wanted to say great analysis, Incanus and filmmusic, and that I concur with you guys and crumbs as to the A/B relationship of the Bonding/Dartmoor (or potentially Joey/Albert) themes.

In fact, if you shift Bonding over a bar, they become inversions of each other, which is how I originally heard it in my mind:



In that way, they share the same I-IV-I-IV progression and make a lovely counterpoint. Their time signatures are malleable—although Bonding is in 3/4 and Dartmoor is in 4/4 in filmmusic's transcription, they both appear variously throughout the score in 3/4 and 4/4 renditions, so it would be a natural counterpoint.

In fact, they make such a conspicuously natural counterpoint it seems to me like Williams deliberately avoids employing them as such throughout the first act to emphasize how the full nature of their friendship isn't cemented until after the events of the war.

For example, when we hear the first statements of Bonding (Track 3, 3:16) and Dartmoor (Track 1, 2:08) they're in 3/4 and 4/4 respectively (as you transcribed them, filmmusic); but when they appear one immediately after another in Plowing (3:30-4:20), it's almost as if Williams disguises their relationship by not only changing time signatures, but reversing them and rendering Bonding in 4 and Dartmoor in 3.

If they really are Joey/Albert themes (and I think they are), then the Friendship theme also could be seen as Williams deliberately rejecting portraying Joey and Albert's reunion with a simple, banal, layered counterpoint statement. Instead, the Friendship theme emerges as the unified, more mature development of the thematic material that reflects how the war has changed them both.

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