150 replies to this topic

[Datameister]

Just saw Tintin today, and while I haven't listened to the OST yet (it's ripping right now), I must say, you weren't as wrong with this one, Blume. =/ Maybe the OST will change my mind, but this one felt like a far more pedestrian attempt than War Horse, though still infinitely better than most of what's written today.

[Jason LeBlanc]

You can't judge anything about a score from seeing the film one time. The first time you see a film you should be taking everything in, but mostly just following the storyline and letting the movie take you where it takes you. Sure you get a "feel" for the score and can pick out moments where you noticed it...... But you don't really get to know a score until you listen to it on CD on its own. I mean, the freaking score has a dozen themes. How many did you pick up on from one viewing of the film? Probably 2 at the most.

[indy4]

Agreed. And not only due to quantity of themes, but also interdependence. Pretty much all the main themes are derived from other material, and even most of the minor themes are too. It's a very complex score, to the point where I think it would take 3-4 listens on CD to start to really understand it.

[Datameister]

Well, I've gotten pretty good at attending to the music in a film...I consciously picked up on Tintin's theme, the Unicorn's theme, Captain Haddock's theme, and the Bagghar theme while watching the film, and I was paying attention to the non-thematic music as well. But I kept an open mind when I listened to the OST last night...and it was, if anything, even less enjoyable for me. I really wanted to like this score, but it really feels a lot more pedestrian to me than War Horse. Firmly rooted in Williams' action scoring techniques of the 2000s, not very melodically strong, not very memorable. I couldn't even listen to the OST straight through without taking a break to do other stuff...it just wasn't holding my attention. It has its moments, certainly, and it's not like I think there's anything objectively wrong with it. I'm happy for anyone who enjoys it more than I do, which is probably most of this forum. And it's certainly possible my appreciation for it will grow over time. It's happened before, and nothing would please me more than to look back on this post with a disbelieving smirk in the future. But for now, War Horse is definitely the 2011 Williams score I'll look to for encouragement about the man's artistic future.

Maybe I'll give Tintin another listen today. I usually try to space out my listenings a little more than that, but who knows, maybe it'll help. I certainly acknowledge that there's still a lot for me to learn about the score's lesser themes and the way they're woven together, if what you all say is true. I only picked up on the most obvious and melodic ones in the film, and Snowy's theme was really the only additional theme that I noticed while listening to the OST. Of course, it could be argued that a theme isn't very effective if an attentive, musically educated listener can't pick up on it after hearing it in the film and on album, but again...we'll see.

[Jason LeBlanc]

There's definitely a bunch more themes you haven't picked up on yet. Check out this thread:

http://www.jwfan.com...showtopic=20800

[Datameister]

I know, I was just reading that. So I'm sure I'll gain a greater appreciation for the quantity of themes...what remains to be seen is whether I'll gain a greater appreciation for their quality. We'll see!

[Jason LeBlanc]

Listen to the FYC promo as well. There's 8 minutes of music on it not on the OST.

[Datameister]

I'm guessing that won't make a difference in my overall opinion, but still worth listening to, regardless. Thanks!

[Pasi Tiitinen]

Well, Mr. Negative, good music always requires multiple listenings.

[publicist]

Well, Mr. Negative, good music always requires multiple listenings.

As if you didn't love it on first hearing...regardless of how over-familiar most of it is.

[Datameister]

Well, Mr. Negative, good music always requires multiple listenings.

Multiple listenings to do what? Deepen your appreciation for and familiarity with it? Certainly. (Especially when it comes to complex music like this.) Convince you that it's fresh, emotionally powerful, and exquisitely enjoyable? Nah, not usually. Most of my favorites snagged my attention the first time around, and although multiple listenings were required for me to more fully explore the music, I was aware of how great they were from the get-go. There are exceptions (TLW and Hook among the most notable), but a lot of these were simply due to negative associations with the films they were written for. That's definitely not the case here, since as I've said, I found the film to be delightful.

And as I've also said, I'm hoping to feel differently about this score over time. I haven't given up on it or anything. I'm simply expressing my opinions on it as they currently stand because...well, that's what we do on message boards.

[Faleel]

Nah, not usually. Most of my favorites snagged my attention the first time around.

Not with 1941, Hook, Towering Inferno, The Cowboys, Superman, or Jerry Goldsmiths King Solomon's Mines and Supergirl for me.

[Datameister]

I haven't heard The Towering Inferno or either of the Goldsmith scores, but the others have all captivated me from the start (or, in the case of Hook, from the start of when I gave it a chance outside of the film). In fact, off the top of my head, I can only think of one major favorite that I initially didn't care for, despite interest in what it was written for: Giacchino's LOST. And my appreciation for that one has waned somewhat since then, anyhow.

[Faleel]

I forgot, KOTCS.

[Datameister]

KOTCS isn't one of my favorites in the first place.

BTW, I just finished listening to the Tintin OST again, although I was doing other stuff at the same time. I must admit, "Sir Francis and The Unicorn" is quite good.

[Pasi Tiitinen]

See, there you go.

[Datameister]

I've now given most of the soundtrack a third listen, this time focusing even more acutely on the music and the music alone. Still...meh. I guess I was hoping for more of a Raiders than a Crystal Skull, and that's not what Williams created.

[Incanus]

I've now given most of the soundtrack a third listen, this time focusing even more acutely on the music and the music alone. Still...meh. I guess I was hoping for more of a Raiders than a Crystal Skull, and that's not what Williams created.

I guess you have gotten a severe case of Zimmeritis or Reznoritis. Symptoms: Lack of interest or enthusiasm for good film music. General film music apathy. Pessimistic views on Williams' new adventure scores. You should see a doctor ASAP.

[BloodBoal]

I think we may have to amputate the leg. That's where it always start. The leg. Cut it before it reaches the brain!

[Datameister]

On the contrary...I absolutely love War Horse! For me, it represents everything Tintin does not - a new style for Williams that's simultaneously fresh and reminiscent of his old classics. Absolutely lovely score. And not just because of the pleasant, sweeping melodies - the action music is fresh and unique and engaging as well! With Tintin, I feel like Williams fell more into his usual M.O. of the 2000s, which was enjoyable for a while, but I don't need to hear any more music written in that style.

But really, that's not the biggest problem...at least Williams' better scores of the 2000s offer some brilliant themes and melodies. For me, Tintin's crucial failure is in its themes. They're so bland and unmemorable that no matter what Williams does with them, it's hard for me to maintain interest. Tintin's own theme is the worst offender, which is really tragic. The Unicorn theme is the most decent of the lot, but even that one doesn't bring anything especially new to the table. (It's telling that after I saw the film, "The Chamber of Secrets" was stuck in my head for a while...) Snowy's theme and the Thompsons' theme are downright annoying to my ear...

Trying to focus on the good, though. The soloistic piano bits, numerous moments in "Sir Francis and The Unicorn", the very Raiders-esque Bagghar theme, the opera music (and its ingenious incorporation into the following action music)...stuff like that.

[Jason LeBlanc]

What about Captain Haddock's Theme?

[Chaac]

Tintin's own theme is the worst offender, which is really tragic. The Unicorn theme is the most decent of the lot, but even that one doesn't bring anything especially new to the table. (It's telling that after I saw the film, "The Chamber of Secrets" was stuck in my head for a while...) Snowy's theme and the Thompsons' theme are downright annoying to my ear...

[Datameister]

What about Captain Haddock's Theme?

I like it...it's appropriate, but I don't find it to be enormously special. It's probably my second-favorite, after the Unicorn theme.

[Faleel]

Milanese Nightingale is the only cue where I got anykind of chills or goosebumps.

[Chaac]

Milanese Nightgale is a cue that I sometimes skip to get to the goosebumps.

[Faleel]

Your sick...

[Chaac]

Heh, that's the second time somebody says that to me in regard of this score. I might be a bit addicted to adrenaline in music, but I'm all right of the head so far

[Hlao-roo]

Tintin is Williams's absolute finest score for an animated film; I'm sorry that haters like Datameister can't appreciate that.

[Incanus]

Tintin is Williams's absolute finest score for an animated film; I'm sorry that haters like Datameister can't appreciate that.

His previous effort, Mr. DNA animation from JP, was rather a let down. He just went for Carl Stalling mode. It was like Stalling on autopilot.

[Luke Skywalker]

it was a provisional work, it was meant to have a march 'pom pom pom'...

[Datameister]

For the record, I love "Cartoon Demonstration"!

Tintin is Williams's absolute finest score for an animated film; I'm sorry that haters like Datameister can't appreciate that.