42 replies to this topic

[Jason LeBlanc]

Alrighty, here we go. Incanus has put together this wonderful list of themes and their locations. Here is his original post, and here is the theme material copy and pasted and re-arranged by me:

MAJOR THEMES

War Horse Main Theme (Bonding Theme): A warm, majestic, rising and falling melody representing the bond between Albert and Joey that carries a strong emotional charge. Initially Williams uses this theme as the boy and the horse form their bond as they work and live together on the Narracott farm but by the end of the score it becomes a noble and poignant expression of their mutual affection, a heart warming theme for true friendship.
Track 3: 3:18-3:49
Track 4: 0:29-0:42
Track 6: 2:02-2:12, 3:33-3:56
Track 7: 2:08-2:30
Track 14: 0:37-1:07, 2:18-3:04
Track 15: 0:10-0:45, 1:58-2:07, 3:46-4:24
Track 16: 5:28-6:17

Dartmoor Theme: An English sounding melody for the locale of Dartmoor of full lush orchestral writing, evoking all at once green rolling hills and other pastoral landscapes bathed by perpetual sunlight. Closest cousin to this music in Williams' own repertoire would be the Irish evocations in Far and Away and his expansive sounding Americana writing for numerous movies.
Track 1: 2:08-2:29, 3:15-end
Track 3: 1:01-1:19, 1:43-1:56
Track 5: 2:21-2:34
Track 6: 2:28-2:39, 3:56-4:25
Track 16: 3:35-3:59, 4:21-4:46

Nature Theme: This is a Celtic tinged melody also infused with the spirit of Vaughan Williams and is often performed by solo flute and reverent strings. The theme seems to speak of the natural world and its beauty, its progressions stately, slow and majestic.
Track 1: 0:00-0:54
Track 2: 2:52-3:07
Track 5: 0:32-0:58
Track 6: 4:31-end
Track 16: 2:20-3:35

Narracotts Theme (Farm Work): A jauntier folk song melody full of lilting English stylings that accompanies the Narracotts and their work on the farm. Reaches its most powerful rendition during the track called Plowing.
Track 1: 1:34-1:59, 2:57-3:06
Track 4: 2:05-2:28, 2:50-3:10
Track 5: 2:54-3:18
Track 6: 0:00-1:29, 2:12-2:28, 2:41-3:31
Track 16: 0:00-0:18, 4:00-4:21

War Theme: A lonely trumpet call, reminiscent of Williams’ similar work in JFK, Born on the Fourth of July and Amistad, this theme represents what I think is the actual war horse aspect of the main character, echoing like a bugle on the field of battle over a snare drum cadence, fateful,denoting also the central element of the story, war, noble and mournful at the same time.
Track 7: 2:30-end
Track 8: 0:03-0:28, 1:51-2:08
Track 11: 1:01-1:16
Track 13: 2:43-3:06
Track 15: 4:25-end


MINOR THEMES

Playful Horse: Another English folk music evocation, a playful and almost jig-like theme for the humour and lighter moments of the story.
Track 2: 0:00-1:35
Track 4: 0:43-1:56
Track 16: 0:19-2:20

Discovery Theme : An ethereal, mysterious Celtic flavoured melody which perhaps depicts the first encounter between Albert and Joey and appears again towards the end of the album.
Track 3: 2:16-2:40
Track 14: 0:00-0:34

Joey’s New Friends Theme: Another lyrical thematic idea for friends Joey meets during his journeys. A peaceful, innocent and haunting, this idea appears only twice on the album.
Track 10: 0:00-0:51
Track 15: 1:19-1:58

Friendship Theme: This theme sounds like a natural continuation of the Bonding Theme, almost like it is completing the melodic phrase started the Bonding Theme. A noble, directly emotional, hymn like piece that speaks perhaps to the deepened friendship Joey has with Albert but also to friendships the horse has formed during his journeys. Williams conjures a homely feel of safety and love with this theme although there is a subtle undercurrent of yearning in it as well.
Track 14: 3:05-end
Track 15: 2:08-3:45
Track 16: 6:17-7:19

So, with that in mind - vote for your favorite theme! My poll has 3 sections - favorite "Major" theme (appears in at least 5 tracks), favorite "Minor" theme (appears in 2 or 3 tracks), and then favorite overall theme from both categories.

[king mark]

main theme/friendship theme

[publicist]

main theme/friendship theme

It's good, but too familiar so i go with DARTMOOR.

[p0llux]

the friendship theme is one of the most moving themes i've heard in awhile. I think it's better than all of the "major" themes. the nature theme is absolutely gorgeous as well, too bad it's so short.

[Sandor]

the friendship theme is one of the most moving themes i've heard in awhile. I think it's better than all of the "major" themes.

It's my favorite theme as well.

[Jason LeBlanc]

Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one not in love with the main theme (the Bonding theme). It's not BAD at all, but something about it just hasn't grabbed me at all. Perhaps it will after seeing the film?

Instead, my favorite theme is the Dartmoor Theme. I absolutely LOVE its rendition at the end of the opening track. Makes me happy i got into film scores every time.

[Michael]

I like the Narracotts' Theme the best of the major themes and of the minor ones I love the Discovery Theme.

But all the themes are great here, those are just the one I like the best. Such a wonderful score

[Sandor]

Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one not in love with the main theme (the Bonding theme). It's not BAD at all, but something about it just hasn't grabbed me at all. Perhaps it will after seeing the film?

Instead, my favorite theme is the Dartmoor Theme. I absolutely LOVE its rendition at the end of the opening track. Makes me happy i got into film scores every time.

If the Bonding Theme was the only major theme of the score I probably wouldn't enjoy it that much. However; as part of the body of themes Williams created for War Horse, I really like it. The themes are very diverse, yet sound like they were cast from the same mold. I'm glad War Horse isn't a mono-thematic score. The Bonding Theme is part of something larger, a colourful and rich palette of musical ideas and themes. As such, it's wonderful.

[SF1_freeze]

Though i love the Bonding Theme my favorite theme has to be the Scenery/Dartmoor theme. This theme (especially in "Dartmoor, 1912" at 2:08-2:29) provides a big JW mindgasm on par with the unreleased Padme's Funeral in RotS, Buckbeaks Flight in PoA or Fawkes Theme statement at the beginning of "Dueling the Basilisk".

[Jason LeBlanc]

Yea, that statement is absolutely glorious

[crocodile]

My favourite would be the one that appears in the last three tracks (and only there, I think). That Patrick Doyle hymn-like theme. The other one would be the theme from the trailer. You call it a bonding theme, I think?

Karol

[Jason LeBlanc]

Crocodile, the first post of this thread explains all the themes.

Anyway, you're referring to the Friendship theme and then the Bonding Theme.

[crocodile]

Yes, exactly. I read the post by now.

Karol

[Incanus]

My favourite major theme is probably either The Bonding Theme with its immediacy and emotional pull or the ennobling, ancient sounding and reverent Nature Theme. It is also a tie between the Friendship Theme and The Discovery Theme in the minor theme department. Overall I choose the Bonding Theme.

The interconnectivity of all these themes makes choosing very difficult as they play together and off each other so well. e.g. The Bonding Theme and the Dartmoor Theme.

[Richard Penna]

I voted for the Nature Theme overall. I know it's short but it really hits the spot.

Although the Friendship Theme is most frequently in my head. Does anyone else hum that theme and find themselves going round in circles between the 'descending pairs' (The Reunion 0:32) and the other descending bit (3:20) and finding that the theme never ends?

Flipping addictive piece of music.

[Blumenkohl]

I think eventually people will come around to seeing the Discovery Theme as their favorite minor theme.

The Friendship theme sounds like it's from another score...it sounds VERY familiar, but I can't place it, anyone else have an idea?

[Michael]

The Friendship theme sounds like it's from another score...it sounds VERY familiar, but I can't place it, anyone else have an idea?

It sounds wonderfull Broadway-ish. Reminds me just a bit of The Terminal, specially in the piano rendition.

[Hlao-roo]

In some ways the "Bonding" theme reminds me of Sayuri's theme from Memoirs -- a tidy, hummable, functionally elegant melody that gets the job done but has little resonance outside the film for which it was written.

[TheUlyssesian]

I think the Dartmoor theme is the best. Its just a four line theme but I believe this is the theme that lends all the emotion to the score. I have a feeling this theme's placement in the score corresponds to all the major emotional beats in the story.

The Friendship Theme is also very pretty. To someone above who said it sounds familiar, it most definitely does. But it is also a moving theme.

The Bonding Theme is good and memorable but not musically impressive or exciting. Its something John Barry would have written, only longer.

[Incanus]

In some ways the "Bonding" theme reminds me of Sayuri's theme from Memoirs -- a tidy, hummable, functionally elegant melody that gets the job done but has little resonance outside the film for which it was written.

Wow. My feeling is exactly the opposite. After several years of listening Sayuri's Theme has become all the more emotional and powerful for me, especially outside the film.

[Jason LeBlanc]

Right now the Bonding Theme is easily winning the Main Theme poll with 8 votes, the Friendship Theme is easily winning the Minor Theme poll with 8 votes.... and yet somehow in the overall poll, the Bonding, Friendship, and Dartmoor themes are all tied with 5 votes each

[Jason LeBlanc]

What interesting poll results so far. Frienshship Theme in the minor themes poll has the most votes out of anything in any poll with 12 votes, yet the same theme is not winning the overall poll (in which Bonding, Dartmoor, and Friendship are all tied with 5 votes each).

We need some more votes!

[Pasi Tiitinen]

Minor theme= Friendship Theme

Major theme = Narracotts Theme

Narracotts theme has been my Ear Worm since I first heard it. Especially the B part(the "answer") of the the theme.
It's fabulous with the french horns for example track 6 2:52. The chord progress is perfect there( with the bass pizzicato)

[KK.]

All the main themes are absolutely amazing! So its extremely hard to pick ONE favourite. They're all just so magnificent in their nobility and beauty. I have no idea how I can do this. But for now, I'm going to go with the nature theme!. It's gorgeous lyrical beauty and its magnificent flute solos sold me from the beginning. Other than that, the runner ups include the War theme, the bonding theme and the Dartmoor theme (oh wait....thats all of them). As for minor themes, I still stand by the notion that the "Friendship" theme is simply the epilogue development on the Dartmoor theme (or maybe an extension of the bonding theme).

This is incredibly hard, theres just way too many awesome themes here!

- KK

[Bellosh]

Easily the "Bonding theme"

Absolutely adoring this score at the moment.

Fantastic to fall asleep to as well!

[gkgyver]

There is no doubt in my mind that it is the "Friendship theme", a close second choice being the "Nature" theme.

The Nature theme actually left me sitting there in awe at the War Horse radio premiere, but the Friendship theme just moves me to tears.

"The Homecoming" from 2:20 to the end is certainly Williams' best thematic writing in the 2000s, on par with PoA, and I would say it even dwarfs the PoA end credits, which I considered one of his best ever.

[indy4]

It's sort of an unfair comparison, as there's only a few minutes of new material in the PoA end credits, but I agree Homecoming is fantastic.

[gkgyver]

Being fair, I would say there is little competition in the 2000s for both credits suites. The only one on par with them, and probably the best of the bunch, is Harry's Wondrous World.

PoA would still prevail, however, if there wasn't so much annoying editing there.

[indy4]

I'd say "The Adventure Continues" is a worthy opponent as well. Also "Sayuri's Theme and End Credits". KotCS and Munich deserve some mention too, although I wouldn't put them at the top.

[Sandor]

The Nature theme actually left me sitting there in awe at the War Horse radio premiere, but the Friendship theme just moves me to tears.

+ 1

[Incanus]

The Nature theme actually left me sitting there in awe at the War Horse radio premiere, but the Friendship theme just moves me to tears.

+ 1

Ditto.

[gkgyver]

The Friendship theme illustrates as perfectly as any theme in War Horse why Williams' themes are so much more memorable than other composers'.
Listen to the piano rendition in "Remembering Emilie".
Right in the second bar of its performance, at 2:12, or at its first conclusion at 2:28, these are key moments in the theme, and JW makes them mean something by not giving you the note progression you'd expect.

Or the War Horse main theme in "Reunion", from 0:50 to 1:00.

Nobody working today has the sensibility to achieve this element of surprise within a theme by just tweaking one or two notes. Nobody. I don't give a damn about opinions. Nobody does this like John Williams does.

[indy4]

I consider the Friendship theme to be a development of the Dartmoor theme. The latter is idealistic and perhaps unrealistically optimistic, the former is hardened by war but still cautiously optimistic. And the first four notes (as well as the rhythm during these notes) are the same.

[Incanus]

I consider the Friendship theme to be a development of the Dartmoor theme. The latter is idealistic and perhaps unrealistically optimistic, the former is hardened by war but still cautiously optimistic. And the first four notes (as well as the rhythm during these notes) are the same.

I do not know if I could call Dartmoor Theme unrealistically optimistic since it is supposed to convey rather idealistic bucolic country life. This Dartmoor Theme as Jason said and I agree has a connection to Albert specifically in the film so it is not entirely wrong to use this exuberant theme for his young naivete and idealism, his basic good nature and fascination for the horse.

The Friendship development of the idea is indeed a more mature and affecting and has a sense of release or completion or should I say more of an "understanding through ordeal" feel to it but it also somehow brings you home at end of the film. I mentioned this in the General discussion when talking about Williams' music for finales. Many of his scores have an ending that has a soothing, cathartic, almost beatific feel of resolution, of coming full circle and finding your way back home. I guess you could say Williams usually projects so positive a feel in his music he almost instinctually (though not against grain of the film) knows how to provide a musical happy ending, be it a bit bittersweet or full of soothing resolution.

[indy4]

I consider the Friendship theme to be a development of the Dartmoor theme. The latter is idealistic and perhaps unrealistically optimistic, the former is hardened by war but still cautiously optimistic. And the first four notes (as well as the rhythm during these notes) are the same.

I do not know if I could call Dartmoor Theme unrealistically optimistic since it is supposed to convey rather idealistic bucolic country life. This Dartmoor Theme as Jason said and I agree has a connection to Albert specifically in the film so it is not entirely wrong to use this exuberant theme for his young naivete and idealism, his basic good nature and fascination for the horse.

The Friendship development of the idea is indeed a more mature and affecting and has a sense of release or completion or should I say more of an "understanding through ordeal" feel to it but it also somehow brings you home at end of the film. I mentioned this in the General discussion when talking about Williams' music for finales. Many of his scores have an ending that has a soothing, cathartic, almost beatific feel of resolution, of coming full circle and finding your way back home. I guess you could say Williams usually projects so positive a feel in his music he almost instinctually (though not against grain of the film) knows how to provide a musical happy ending, be it a bit bittersweet or full of soothing resolution.

I pretty much agree with everything you wrote in this post. When I called the Friendship theme "unrealistically optimistic" it was not meant to insult the score, I think the theme fits the character perfectly (and lets be honest, who doesn't like to listen to an unrealistically optimistic theme?). I think it was an intentional decision meant to mirror Albert's journey from one of youthful innocence, naiveté, and perhaps unchecked (or at least not-checked-enough) optimism to an optimistic but realistic person, forced to see reality by the the brutalities of war. I think this development makes the score as a whole very rewarding.

I also agree with your statement about Williams' finales. There is almost always a sense of development, but like you said he often includes familiar pieces of nostalgia from earlier in the film that serve to both remind us of the characters' beginnings and emphasize how far they've come.

[Jason LeBlanc]

The names being used for themes in the main post reflect Incanus' names based on initial listens to the OST before he had seen the film. After seeing the film we both agree that many actually represent something different than initially guessed.

The Dartmoor Theme seems to really be Albert's Theme
The War Theme, Bonding Theme, and Discovery Theme seem to be 3 different themes for Joey reflecting different sides of his 'character'
The Friendship Theme is really a blending of Albert's Theme with the warm Joey's Theme, it's possibly more aptly called The Reunion Theme
Joey's New Friends Theme is really Emilie's Theme

I dunno what the heck the Nature Theme, Playful Horse, or Naracott's Theme is supposed to really relfect, if anything.

[Incanus]

The names being used for themes in the main post reflect Incanus' names based on initial listens to the OST before he had seen the film. After seeing the film we both agree that many actually represent something different than initially guessed.

The Dartmoor Theme seems to really be Albert's Theme
The War Theme, Bonding Theme, and Discovery Theme seem to be 3 different themes for Joey reflecting different sides of his 'character'
The Friendship Theme is really a blending of Albert's Theme with the warm Joey's Theme, it's possibly more aptly called The Reunion Theme
Joey's New Friends Theme is really Emilie's Theme

I dunno what the heck the Nature Theme, Playful Horse, or Naracott's Theme is supposed to really relfect, if anything.

Yup. Pretty much spot on Jason.

What I called the Discovery Theme could be named Recognition Theme since both times it is used deal with Joey recognizing Albert as a friend.

Of the three last mentioned the Nature Theme seems to be exactly that or properly the actual Dartmoor Theme that underscores the countryside from the first frame. Playful Horse is more of a general theme for mischievous behaviour and Narracott's Theme underscores quite a few scenes of horses running so it would seem that it is not a theme for the family at all.

I will get to revising a complete score analysis soon. I have seen the film only once so I will take a long look at it ASAP.

[Jason LeBlanc]

yea I gotta finish my analysis as well

I still wonder which 4 of out the 10 themes are the one's Spielberg refers to in the liner notes

[Incanus]

yea I gotta finish my analysis as well

I still wonder which 4 of out the 10 themes are the one's Spielberg refers to in the liner notes

Yes that is a puzzling statement from him since there are so many of them. My guess would be The Bonding Theme, The Narracott Theme, The Friendship Theme and the Nature Theme (to use my old theme names).

[Jason LeBlanc]

He referred to 4 "major" themes if I remember correctly, and the "Nature" theme is hardly major. I'd guess (using your old names) Bonding, Dartmoor, War, Friendship