In the sense that Rosza's Ben Hur, Debney's Cutthroat Island or Horner's Willow are 'BIG' scores and Williams' Stanley And Iris or Horner's The Spitfire Grill are 'small' scores, what is Williams' smallest score..?
What is John Williams's 'smallest' score?
Started by Hlao-roo, Nov 26 2011 06:56 AM
34 replies to this topic
#2
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Posted 26 November 2011 - 07:53 AM
Rosewood, perhaps?
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From a storytelling point of view, from a directing point of view, there is one thing I associate with what he does, which is calm. There is such an inherent calm and inherent trust of the one powerful image, that he makes me embarrassed with my own work, in terms of how many different shots, how many different sound effects, how many different things we’ll throw at an audience to make an impression. But with Kubrick, there is such a great trust of the one correct image to calmly explain something to audience. There can be some slowness to the editing. There’s nothing frenetic about it. It’s very simple. There’s a trust in simple storytelling and simple image making that actually takes massive confidence to try and emulate.
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#3
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Posted 26 November 2011 - 10:07 AM
Missouri Breaks was scored for 12 instruments if memory serves.
Rosewood uses a full orchestra, so I wouldn't call it small... not in instrumentals forces used and not in the soundscape it conjures.
Rosewood uses a full orchestra, so I wouldn't call it small... not in instrumentals forces used and not in the soundscape it conjures.
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"I owe a tremendous debt of gratitute do John Williams. Without his music, Superman's powers are greatly deminished. Believe me, if you try to fly without that theme, you go nowhere... one step, two steps and... down!" -- Christopher Reeve, May 1993
"John Williams will go down as one of the greatest composers." -- Leonard Slatkin, american conductor
"Ah yes, the Olympics. The quadrennial event where composer John Williams collects a hefty royalty check from NBC."
"Music is not a luxury but a necessity" - Robert Shaw
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." -- Albert Einstein
[url="http://johnwilliams.jw-music.net/index.html"]http://johnwilliams.jw-music.net/index.html[/url]
e-mail: miguel.jw@gmail.com
----------------------
"I owe a tremendous debt of gratitute do John Williams. Without his music, Superman's powers are greatly deminished. Believe me, if you try to fly without that theme, you go nowhere... one step, two steps and... down!" -- Christopher Reeve, May 1993
"John Williams will go down as one of the greatest composers." -- Leonard Slatkin, american conductor
"Ah yes, the Olympics. The quadrennial event where composer John Williams collects a hefty royalty check from NBC."
"Music is not a luxury but a necessity" - Robert Shaw
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." -- Albert Einstein
#4
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Posted 26 November 2011 - 10:09 AM
Small in the sense that it uses few instruments? Or small in the sense that it has had little impact on the listener?
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Posted 26 November 2011 - 10:20 AM
The Long Goodbye
Repeat the JWFan pledge after me: 'I hereby recognise John Towner Williams' place in the world as the great composer there has ever been, and I therefore renounce the works of Rozsa, Korngold, Herrmann, Horner, Kamen, Giacchino (unless the prophecy is fulfilled and he becomes the heir to JTW) and Goldsmith, especially Goldsmith. I understand that if I ever refer to Jurassic Park as anything less than "a masterpiece sixty-five million years in the making" I will be resigned to living out my days at the Zimmershrine.'
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Posted 26 November 2011 - 11:53 AM
Presumed Innocent
#7
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Posted 26 November 2011 - 11:57 AM
The Long Goodbye
Why?
#8
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Posted 26 November 2011 - 12:03 PM
It just feels very small and intimate, especially being diegetic.
Repeat the JWFan pledge after me: 'I hereby recognise John Towner Williams' place in the world as the great composer there has ever been, and I therefore renounce the works of Rozsa, Korngold, Herrmann, Horner, Kamen, Giacchino (unless the prophecy is fulfilled and he becomes the heir to JTW) and Goldsmith, especially Goldsmith. I understand that if I ever refer to Jurassic Park as anything less than "a masterpiece sixty-five million years in the making" I will be resigned to living out my days at the Zimmershrine.'
#9
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Posted 26 November 2011 - 12:06 PM
It just feels very small and intimate, especially being diegetic.
Hmmm, I haven't listened to this score, so I can't say one way or the other...
It just occurred to me, Schindler's List has no brass section at all, does it? So in terms of orchestra, it's quite a small score... and yet, in terms of impact, it was HUGE!
#10
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Posted 26 November 2011 - 12:56 PM
Conrack I think, it's a small ensemble and not many notes.
#11
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Posted 26 November 2011 - 12:56 PM
Schindler's List definitely have brass. It does not feature trumpets however, a choice JW often makes when scoring dramas (Angela's Ashes, Munich).
As for JW's smallest score, I think Missouri Breaks and Conrack are probably the ones.
As for JW's smallest score, I think Missouri Breaks and Conrack are probably the ones.
"It's still baffling to me. I sit down with a pencil and a piece of paper and do my best... The remarkable thing is that my music is heard by billions of people." --John Williams
"Let me say, however, there is no "next" John Williams. Sadly, he is unique--- a figure who simultaneously embodies and transcends the music of all the masters of film music who preceded him (much like Brahms and Wagner of the Romantic era). He comes from a time when the craft of music in film was still one of the ear, heart and mind. Today, sadly, the craft is largely technical. Most composers do not conceive their music "inwardly" but rather at the computer--- and with rather limited skills, musically, at that. The inner spirit knows no boundaries--- our plastic abilities, sadly, do. John is a man of spirit, heart, intellect and soaring music." -- Conrad Pope about John Williams
"Let me say, however, there is no "next" John Williams. Sadly, he is unique--- a figure who simultaneously embodies and transcends the music of all the masters of film music who preceded him (much like Brahms and Wagner of the Romantic era). He comes from a time when the craft of music in film was still one of the ear, heart and mind. Today, sadly, the craft is largely technical. Most composers do not conceive their music "inwardly" but rather at the computer--- and with rather limited skills, musically, at that. The inner spirit knows no boundaries--- our plastic abilities, sadly, do. John is a man of spirit, heart, intellect and soaring music." -- Conrad Pope about John Williams
#12
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Posted 26 November 2011 - 01:00 PM
Schindler's List definitely have brass. It does not feature trumpets however, a choice JW often makes when scoring dramas (Angela's Ashes, Munich).
I just couldn't think of any "brassy" section off the top of my head... where do we hear trombones or the tuba?
The horn we hear at the beginning of Schindler's Workforce, yes. But other than that...?
#13
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Posted 26 November 2011 - 01:04 PM
On Schindler's List JW uses horns mostly to double strings and woodwinds, or to sustain/enrich the harmonies. They're never used in fanfare-like fashion because, well, the film doesn't need that. A few cues feature also parts for trumpets and trombones.
But there are brass all over the score.
But there are brass all over the score.
"It's still baffling to me. I sit down with a pencil and a piece of paper and do my best... The remarkable thing is that my music is heard by billions of people." --John Williams
"Let me say, however, there is no "next" John Williams. Sadly, he is unique--- a figure who simultaneously embodies and transcends the music of all the masters of film music who preceded him (much like Brahms and Wagner of the Romantic era). He comes from a time when the craft of music in film was still one of the ear, heart and mind. Today, sadly, the craft is largely technical. Most composers do not conceive their music "inwardly" but rather at the computer--- and with rather limited skills, musically, at that. The inner spirit knows no boundaries--- our plastic abilities, sadly, do. John is a man of spirit, heart, intellect and soaring music." -- Conrad Pope about John Williams
"Let me say, however, there is no "next" John Williams. Sadly, he is unique--- a figure who simultaneously embodies and transcends the music of all the masters of film music who preceded him (much like Brahms and Wagner of the Romantic era). He comes from a time when the craft of music in film was still one of the ear, heart and mind. Today, sadly, the craft is largely technical. Most composers do not conceive their music "inwardly" but rather at the computer--- and with rather limited skills, musically, at that. The inner spirit knows no boundaries--- our plastic abilities, sadly, do. John is a man of spirit, heart, intellect and soaring music." -- Conrad Pope about John Williams
#14
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Posted 26 November 2011 - 01:05 PM
I am looking for examples... 
#15
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Posted 26 November 2011 - 01:06 PM
Well, there are numerous examples, I'm not able to make a full list right now. Just listen to it.
"It's still baffling to me. I sit down with a pencil and a piece of paper and do my best... The remarkable thing is that my music is heard by billions of people." --John Williams
"Let me say, however, there is no "next" John Williams. Sadly, he is unique--- a figure who simultaneously embodies and transcends the music of all the masters of film music who preceded him (much like Brahms and Wagner of the Romantic era). He comes from a time when the craft of music in film was still one of the ear, heart and mind. Today, sadly, the craft is largely technical. Most composers do not conceive their music "inwardly" but rather at the computer--- and with rather limited skills, musically, at that. The inner spirit knows no boundaries--- our plastic abilities, sadly, do. John is a man of spirit, heart, intellect and soaring music." -- Conrad Pope about John Williams
"Let me say, however, there is no "next" John Williams. Sadly, he is unique--- a figure who simultaneously embodies and transcends the music of all the masters of film music who preceded him (much like Brahms and Wagner of the Romantic era). He comes from a time when the craft of music in film was still one of the ear, heart and mind. Today, sadly, the craft is largely technical. Most composers do not conceive their music "inwardly" but rather at the computer--- and with rather limited skills, musically, at that. The inner spirit knows no boundaries--- our plastic abilities, sadly, do. John is a man of spirit, heart, intellect and soaring music." -- Conrad Pope about John Williams
#16
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Posted 26 November 2011 - 01:08 PM
From what I remember there are at least no trombones in the main title.
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Posted 26 November 2011 - 01:10 PM
The main title at least has no brass section at all.
http://www.sheetmusi...s-List/18101373
Oh yeah, in "Making the List"... brass features briefly in the background... from 1:30 onward. What is that? Trombones?
http://www.sheetmusi...s-List/18101373
Oh yeah, in "Making the List"... brass features briefly in the background... from 1:30 onward. What is that? Trombones?
#18
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Posted 26 November 2011 - 01:13 PM
Horns are definitely there in several cues (Give Me Your Names even has a touching horn solo).
Trumpets and trombones are featured only in few cues (Schindler's Workforce)
Trumpets and trombones are featured only in few cues (Schindler's Workforce)
"It's still baffling to me. I sit down with a pencil and a piece of paper and do my best... The remarkable thing is that my music is heard by billions of people." --John Williams
"Let me say, however, there is no "next" John Williams. Sadly, he is unique--- a figure who simultaneously embodies and transcends the music of all the masters of film music who preceded him (much like Brahms and Wagner of the Romantic era). He comes from a time when the craft of music in film was still one of the ear, heart and mind. Today, sadly, the craft is largely technical. Most composers do not conceive their music "inwardly" but rather at the computer--- and with rather limited skills, musically, at that. The inner spirit knows no boundaries--- our plastic abilities, sadly, do. John is a man of spirit, heart, intellect and soaring music." -- Conrad Pope about John Williams
"Let me say, however, there is no "next" John Williams. Sadly, he is unique--- a figure who simultaneously embodies and transcends the music of all the masters of film music who preceded him (much like Brahms and Wagner of the Romantic era). He comes from a time when the craft of music in film was still one of the ear, heart and mind. Today, sadly, the craft is largely technical. Most composers do not conceive their music "inwardly" but rather at the computer--- and with rather limited skills, musically, at that. The inner spirit knows no boundaries--- our plastic abilities, sadly, do. John is a man of spirit, heart, intellect and soaring music." -- Conrad Pope about John Williams
#19
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Posted 26 November 2011 - 01:18 PM
Yes, you're right! 
Ok, so then Schindler's List is not a small score... in any sense!
Ok, so then Schindler's List is not a small score... in any sense!
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Posted 26 November 2011 - 01:53 PM
THE SUGARLAND EXPRESS.
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Posted 26 November 2011 - 04:32 PM
Again a topic that suffers from not being specific enough. What is 'small', anyway? Number of instruments used?
#22
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Posted 26 November 2011 - 06:52 PM
Pretty much, I guess. Scope too, though that's a little vague.
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Posted 26 November 2011 - 09:16 PM
I think Dracula has a very short running time on the album. Does that count as small too?
#24
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Posted 26 November 2011 - 10:26 PM
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Posted 26 November 2011 - 10:30 PM
Ladd Company logo.
#26
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Posted 28 November 2011 - 12:59 AM
Long Goodbye. I think that one beats all others.
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Posted 28 November 2011 - 10:19 AM
Long Goodbye. I think that one beats all others.
Really? I think there are quite a few instruments used in that, as the theme is performed by various ensembles of various sizes.
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Posted 28 November 2011 - 11:21 AM
Again a topic that suffers from not being specific enough. What is 'small', anyway? Number of instruments used?
In the sense that Rosza's Ben Hur, Debney's Cutthroat Island or Horner's Willow are 'BIG' scores and Williams' Stanley And Iris or Horner's The Spitfire Grill are 'small' scores, what is Williams' smallest score..?
#29
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Posted 28 November 2011 - 11:28 AM
So somewhat of a subjective idea, then. Seems to be more a difference between 'bombasticism' and 'softspoken drama' in your sense. But that means you can have huge orchestral forces for softspoken dramas (LEGENDS OF THE FALL) as well as a minimum of instruments for big, fat, bombastic sounds (TRON LEGACY).
#30
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Posted 28 November 2011 - 12:39 PM
Long Goodbye. I think that one beats all others.
Really? I think there are quite a few instruments used in that, as the theme is performed by various ensembles of various sizes.
There are, and there's also some incidental music heard at the end of the film. Remember that "Hooray For Hollywood" was niether scored, nor adapted by J.W.
If you ,mean small "physically", then Miguel's right; it would be "The Missouri Breaks". If you mean "emotionally", then it's either "The Accidental Tourist", "Pete 'N' Tillie", "Conrack","Cinderella Liberty",or "Stanley And Iris". I'd go with "Pete 'N' Tillie".
I know it is not as score as such, but "Cantina Band" only had 4 players.
E.T.'s suggestion of the Ladd Company logo, is interesting. Does anyone know exactly what it was scored for?
#31
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Posted 28 November 2011 - 01:26 PM
Long Goodbye. I think that one beats all others.
Really? I think there are quite a few instruments used in that, as the theme is performed by various ensembles of various sizes.
There are, and there's also some incidental music heard at the end of the film. Remember that "Hooray For Hollywood" was niether scored, nor adapted by J.W.
If you ,mean small "physically", then Miguel's right; it would be "The Missouri Breaks". If you mean "emotionally", then it's either "The Accidental Tourist", "Pete 'N' Tillie", "Conrack","Cinderella Liberty",or "Stanley And Iris". I'd go with "Pete 'N' Tillie".
I know it is not as score as such, but "Cantina Band" only had 4 players.
E.T.'s suggestion of the Ladd Company logo, is interesting. Does anyone know exactly what it was scored for?
For the Ladd company.
#32
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Posted 28 November 2011 - 02:56 PM
There are, and there's also some incidental music heard at the end of the film. Remember that "Hooray For Hollywood" was niether scored, nor adapted by J.W.
If you ,mean small "physically", then Miguel's right; it would be "The Missouri Breaks". If you mean "emotionally", then it's either "The Accidental Tourist", "Pete 'N' Tillie", "Conrack","Cinderella Liberty",or "Stanley And Iris". I'd go with "Pete 'N' Tillie".
I know it is not as score as such, but "Cantina Band" only had 4 players.
E.T.'s suggestion of the Ladd Company logo, is interesting. Does anyone know exactly what it was scored for?
Actually, in The Long Goodbye there are some parts that use less than the 12 players in The Missouri Breaks. And the incidental cue in the end of The Long Goodbye sounds "small"...
Emotionally wise, there are parts of Cinderella Liberty that don't sound that small, at least for me. In that respect, I would go with the wonderful scores for Martin Ritt or then Accidental Tourist.
Miguel Andrade
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----------------------
"I owe a tremendous debt of gratitute do John Williams. Without his music, Superman's powers are greatly deminished. Believe me, if you try to fly without that theme, you go nowhere... one step, two steps and... down!" -- Christopher Reeve, May 1993
"John Williams will go down as one of the greatest composers." -- Leonard Slatkin, american conductor
"Ah yes, the Olympics. The quadrennial event where composer John Williams collects a hefty royalty check from NBC."
"Music is not a luxury but a necessity" - Robert Shaw
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." -- Albert Einstein
[url="http://johnwilliams.jw-music.net/index.html"]http://johnwilliams.jw-music.net/index.html[/url]
e-mail: miguel.jw@gmail.com
----------------------
"I owe a tremendous debt of gratitute do John Williams. Without his music, Superman's powers are greatly deminished. Believe me, if you try to fly without that theme, you go nowhere... one step, two steps and... down!" -- Christopher Reeve, May 1993
"John Williams will go down as one of the greatest composers." -- Leonard Slatkin, american conductor
"Ah yes, the Olympics. The quadrennial event where composer John Williams collects a hefty royalty check from NBC."
"Music is not a luxury but a necessity" - Robert Shaw
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." -- Albert Einstein
#33
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Posted 28 November 2011 - 04:19 PM
Even when working with a small ensemble Williams never really sounds "small".
I never get the feeling there's anything missing. Even with a 4 player piece like Air and Simple Gifts. The way he layers instruments, it just always sounds full-bodied.
I never get the feeling there's anything missing. Even with a 4 player piece like Air and Simple Gifts. The way he layers instruments, it just always sounds full-bodied.
It's true. You're my role model, Stefan Cosman.
#34
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Posted 28 November 2011 - 05:35 PM
Even when working with a small ensemble Williams never really sounds "small".
I never get the feeling there's anything missing. Even with a 4 player piece like Air and Simple Gifts. The way he layers instruments, it just always sounds full-bodied.
Yeah, or his great Devil's Dance arrangment for violin and piano only.
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Posted 28 November 2011 - 06:20 PM
Even when working with a small ensemble Williams never really sounds "small".
I never get the feeling there's anything missing. Even with a 4 player piece like Air and Simple Gifts. The way he layers instruments, it just always sounds full-bodied.
Yeah, or his great Devil's Dance arrangment for violin and piano only.
Also his recent La Jolla Quartet is a great example.
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