236 replies to this topic

[indy4]

I agree about the "Music by JW" looking amateur.

[E.T. & Elliott]

Of course, there had to be better images to use for the cover. But it doesn't matter to me overall.

[king mark]

it's better than the Angela's Ashes cover

[Luke Skywalker]

Amistad's picture quality lokks as if it was a bootleg printed cover.

And i think SPR too. Both were dreamworks records

[E.T. & Elliott]

Since you bring up artwork that appears bootleg, my worst is probably the latest FSM Nightwatch. I realize they were limited with what they could work with given it's some obscure TV program that nobody cares about, but yeah. Horrendous, including the disc. Looks like a bootleg.

[Foxfan]

I was also disappointed as it leaves very little room for the Maestro's autograph... I definitely want to get it signed in May if it wins the Oscar!

[BTR1701]

And the opening spread lists all the performers.

I notice that Malcolm McNab is still lead trumpet. He was playing lead on film soundtracks back when 'Jaws' first came out, and even earlier. The man's a machine. Back in my trumpet-playing days, I'd have given my left nut to be able to play half as good as he does.

Williams usually acknowledges the orchestrators in the film credits.

Williams actually doesn't have much say about what goes into the credits of the film itself. People are credited or not as the union rules dictate.

If he's an assistant or an orchestrator doesn't matter. If he had seen the manuscripts and at least transcribed them then it would be only decent to mention him in the "thank you" section. I mean, different people thank their kids and pets in there. Why not someone who actually had something to do with the music?

Well said.

Am I the only one having trouble getting a decent emotional response out of this score, which sadly is the first Williams album I feel this way?

'War of the Worlds' was my first JW disappointment. To this day I just can't connect with that score at any level. I find it boring and tedious, and I had such high expectations for it. I mean, come on... alien invasion movie + Spielberg + John Williams... there was no way that was gonna be anything but stupendous and then I listened to the CD for the first time and I was like, 'What the hell?'

[Mr Big]

Sorry, if this has been already discussed somewhere (I couldn't find it, if so), but what's up with the distortions on the WH album? I hear it almost every time the Bonding Theme is played by the brass section (for example Track 15, around 4:05; or in the last track).

Anybody else hear that? I don't know how you call it--maybe "distortion" is not the right word--but it's a sort of "thrrrrrraaaappppp" in the background...

The only thing I hear is in track 14 right around 2:20-2:26 in the brass ensemble there's one horn who holds over to long and it's really out of tune.

[crocodile]

it's better than the Angela's Ashes cover

I like that cover, actually. It's very memorable.

Karol

[Incanus]

it's better than the Angela's Ashes cover

I like that cover, actually. It's very memorable.

Karol

I think the European release cover is down right scary but captures the feel of the film pretty spot on.

I got the War Horse CD yesterday and I like the visual look of the album. I particularly noted the "on the set" photo of Spielberg which I thought was a nice touch.

And it is a pretty good soundtrack if we do not have anything else to complain about than the cover.

[Foxfan]

Since we're discussing distortions, anyone else notice horrible scratchiness of the bases/cellos in The Homecoming (0:30 - 1:10)? I have the original CD and JBL tower speakers and there is definitely some issue issues in the lower registers. Sounds like it was miked too close.

[KK.]

Hey guys, I know its been a while and the score's been discussed to death. But I recently completed my own analysis of the score:
http://musicmusekk.w...-john-williams/

Who knows? You might learn something new

- KK

[indy4]

Did we ever figure out which melody was written for the play?

[Jason LeBlanc]

None.

[p0llux]

The only thing I hear is in track 14 right around 2:20-2:26 in the brass ensemble there's one horn who holds over to long and it's really out of tune.

lol no. nice try tho.

[indy4]

None.

Really? Wasn't there an article that said JW was incorporating a song into the score?

[Mr Big]

The only thing I hear is in track 14 right around 2:20-2:26 in the brass ensemble there's one horn who holds over to long and it's really out of tune.

lol no. nice try tho.

Strangely it's only there when I listen with headphones. It's fine from speakers though.

[Jason LeBlanc]

None.

Really? Wasn't there an article that said JW was incorporating a song into the score?

Articles can be wrong. The CD is 100% Williams. Don't you own it? You'll find nothing in the booklet about integrating anyone else's material

[indy4]

Oh, okay. I own it but I haven't unwrapped the seal or looked at the tracklist yet, because I don't want to be spoiled.

[Percival]

Not sure if this has been covered yet: JW being interviewed about War Horse. Apologies if it's old news ...

[Quint]

Not sure if this has been covered yet: JW being interviewed about War Horse. Apologies if it's old news ...

I hadn't seen it, thanks. And Williams is absolutely right about uniqueness of acoutic performance vs. synthetically constructed digital "performance". Nice to see him having a sly dig at his upstart "peers" (read: punks!)

[Ricard]

Not sure if this has been covered yet: JW being interviewed about War Horse. Apologies if it's old news ...

http://www.jwfan.com/?p=1672

I hadn't seen it, thanks.

Do you ever visit the main page?

[Trumpeteer]

Now that I have seen "War Horse," I can comment on the score.

Like "Tintin," John Williams missed several great opportunities here. I was expecting more thematic material for Joey that would weave through the film. Maybe I felt Spielberg and Williams remembered how successful their last theme was for an animal, and would have attempted to replicate that.

Am I expecting too much? Maybe. But the thing I enjoy most about Williams is his masterful use of letimotifs. It's what drew me to him about 20 years ago and sets him apart from others when you hear him introduce a theme and weave it through a film without making it seem repetitive.

Much of the scenes set during the war didn't have much a score that impressed me. The music for Joey running through No Man's Land was awesome, as was the plowing scene and the scene where Albert was training Joey. This was a very fine score, but nothing that made me say immediately "This is an awesome score," as I did with almost every fully original score he's written in the past 15 years.

That said, bringing Tim Morrison in for trumpet made me smile. Hearing that music at the end, I knew that could only be him playing the trumpet.

[Quint]

Not sure if this has been covered yet: JW being interviewed about War Horse. Apologies if it's old news ...

http://www.jwfan.com/?p=1672

I hadn't seen it, thanks.

Do you ever visit the main page?

GD is my main page. Honestly, I very rarely look outside of the message board.

[Ricard]

I'll take that into account.

[Quint]

No really, don't! It's my understanding that I'm one of the less enthused here where new JW news is concerned. For me the main thing is the forum works properly, but again that's just me.

Nowadays, my interest in John Williams is based purely on nostalgic admiration and his future work with Spielberg.

[Jason LeBlanc]

The War Horse OST is just $9.99 at Amazon right, as is Tintin OST

Tintin: www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005KWAWJ2/
War Horse: http://www.amazon.co...uct/B005LK8NSK/

[king mark]

I'm sure 99% of JWfans already bought it

[indy4]

This may have already been posted, but Williams is nominated for a few awards for WH that I don't remember seeing on the main page:

BFCA: http://www.awardsdai...ees/#more-46690
Houston Films Critics Society: http://www.awardsdai...ciety-nominees/
International Press Academy: http://www.pressacad...rrent-nominees/

Houston Film Critics also nominated the score for Tintin.

[Ricard]

I'm sure 99% of JWfans already bought it

Many Williams fans never spend a cent on his music. As with every other artist.

This may have already been posted, but Williams is nominated for a few awards for WH that I don't remember seeing on the main page:

BFCA: http://www.awardsdai...ees/#more-46690
Houston Films Critics Society: http://www.awardsdai...ciety-nominees/
International Press Academy: http://www.pressacad...rrent-nominees/

Houston Film Critics also nominated the score for Tintin.

Thanks The BFCA (= Critics' Choice Awards) and International Press Academy (=Satellite Awards) nominations were already announced on the main page. The Houston one didn't.

[indy4]

Oh okay, I see.

Another random comment about the score: I think this is Williams' best action music since Revenge of the Sith. Every action cue is masterfully constructed, and builds up to a fantastic climax. All the action cues also share similarities, which allows for a very unified score. And they all work wonderfully in the film. I like Tintin, but its only action cue that is equally good to any given War Horse action cue is "Sir Francis and the Unicorn" (I don't count "Adventure Continues" as action, because in its best format it's a concert piece, not meant to underscore an action scene).

[KK.]

While I admire the action in War Horse, I think the action in Tintin is better. And its not just Sir Francis and the Unicorn. Theres Escape from the Karaboudjan, Flight to Bagghar, Pursuit of the Falcon, Clash of the Cranes etc.

[indy4]

Also, I think I've figured out the song from the play that was incorporated into the film. It's called "The Scarlet and the Blue." I saw it mentioned in the end credits of the film, but listening to the sample on Amazon, it isn't included on the OST. I think it must be the tune that the bagpiper played during the charge out of the trench.

While I admire the action in War Horse, I think the action in Tintin is better. And its not just Sir Francis and the Unicorn. Theres Escape from the Karaboudjan, Flight to Bagghar, Pursuit of the Falcon, Clash of the Cranes etc.

I like Tintin but I feel the action is a little too disjointed for my tastes. It's good, but not great. In War Horse (and actually this goes for the entire score) you never feel like Williams was scoring a film. It feels like a concert work inspired by a book.

[Pasi Tiitinen]

While I admire the action in War Horse, I think the action in Tintin is better. And its not just Sir Francis and the Unicorn. Theres Escape from the Karaboudjan, Flight to Bagghar, Pursuit of the Falcon, Clash of the Cranes etc.

Yes, far better.

Very much underrated.

[Incanus]

A question to those who have seen the film: Is the OST album in more of less chronological order?

While I admire the action in War Horse, I think the action in Tintin is better. And its not just Sir Francis and the Unicorn. Theres Escape from the Karaboudjan, Flight to Bagghar, Pursuit of the Falcon, Clash of the Cranes etc.

Yes, far better.

Very much underrated.

I would say the action music in War Horse is of different nature than in Tintin. Both scores have music that propels the action and makes your heart race with excitement but the feeling of this music is completely different. Tintin action music has always even at its most frenetic a sense of fun and adventure about it, there is more a feeling of exhilaration and less of danger, whereas in War Horse the action music is grittier, urgent and tragic, Williams accentuating feelings of panic, inexorable forward motion and desperation. There are few moments of lighter action music for the Dartmoor scenes on the album, depicting what I think the exuberant joy of racing but the middle portion of the album is certainly devoted to the darker action music.
Tintin's action is orchestrationally very busy and complex, the whole score infact seems to be one forward motion of the orchestra skipping ever on from one idea to the next which fits the pace of the film truly well leaving you breathless.
In War Horse the action music is more should I say leaner, with clear lines that build in intensity and really provide a kinetic push in the most wonderful way.

I happen to like both scores equally for their different qualities.


But back on the War Horse score. The final three tracks of the album are just pure magic. I was sold on the Discovery/Recognition theme at the beginning of The Reunion from the moment I heard it in the trailer and it is just pure ethereal magic on the CD especially when followed by the supremely warm Bonding Theme and Dartmoor/Friendship Theme variation.
Emilie's Theme (which I have called Joey's New Friends Theme in my analysis) in the Remembering Emilie and Finale is equally lyrical and haunting but the final emotional take on the Friendship Theme on celli and the whole string section is another show of Williams' mastery of the orchestral writing only to be finished with the sense of finality by the War Theme on solo trumpet. A superb dramatic closing of the story.
And then there is the Homecoming which is one of the most fluid end credits suites Williams has created in years. It draws all the different thematic ideas into a one long meditation which is a joy to hear each and every time. Louise DiTullio is just in top form as the flute soloist here and on the whole score, her clear solo lines speaking to the heart with lyricism and grace. There is a feel of the new and old Williams coming together here and to marvellous results. I just can't get enough of this piece.

[KK.]

A question to those who have seen the film: Is the OST album in more of less chronological order?

MINOR SPOILERS BELOW:
Its pretty close to chronological order with some exceptions.
If I remember correctly, the order should go like this in film:
1) Dartmoor, 1912
2) The Auction
3) Bringing Joey Home, and Bonding
4) Learning the Call
5) Plowing
6) Seeding, and Horse vs. Car
7) Ruined Crop, and Going to War
8) The Charge and Capture
9) The Desertion
10) Joey's New Friends
11) Pulling the Canon
12) The Death of Topthorn
13) No Man's Land Part 2 (1:51 - 4:36)
14) No Man's Land Part 1 (0:00 - 1:51)
15) The Reunion
16) Remembering Emilie, and Finale
16) The Homecoming

While I admire the action in War Horse, I think the action in Tintin is better. And its not just Sir Francis and the Unicorn. Theres Escape from the Karaboudjan, Flight to Bagghar, Pursuit of the Falcon, Clash of the Cranes etc.

Yes, far better.

Very much underrated.

I would say the action music in War Horse is of different nature than in Tintin. Both scores have music that propels the action and makes your heart race with excitement but the feeling of this music is completely different. Tintin action music has always even at its most frenetic a sense of fun and adventure about it, there is more a feeling of exhilaration and less of danger, whereas in War Horse the action music is grittier, urgent and tragic, Williams accentuating feelings of panic, inexorable forward motion and desperation. There are few moments of lighter action music for the Dartmoor scenes on the album, depicting what I think the exuberant joy of racing but the middle portion of the album is certainly devoted to the darker action music.
Tintin's action is orchestrationally very busy and complex, the whole score infact seems to be one forward motion of the orchestra skipping ever on from one idea to the next which fits the pace of the film truly well leaving you breathless.
In War Horse the action music is more should I say leaner, with clear lines that build in intensity and really provide a kinetic push in the most wonderful way.

Well said. Like I said before, I admire and really love the action in War Horse, but I enjoy Tintin's action a bit more.

But back on the War Horse score. The final three tracks of the album are just pure magic. I was sold on the Discovery/Recognition theme at the beginning of The Reunion from the moment I heard it in the trailer and it is just pure ethereal magic on the CD especially when followed by the supremely warm Bonding Theme and Dartmoor/Friendship Theme variation.
Emilie's Theme (which I have called Joey's New Friends Theme in my analysis) in the Remembering Emilie and Finale is equally lyrical and haunting but the final emotional take on the Friendship Theme on celli and the whole string section is another show of Williams' mastery of the orchestral writing only to be finished with the sense of finality by the War Theme on solo trumpet. A superb dramatic closing of the story.
And then there is the Homecoming which is one of the most fluid end credits suites Williams has created in years. It draws all the different thematic ideas into a one long meditation which is a joy to hear each and every time. Louise DiTullio is just in top form as the flute soloist here and on the whole score, her clear solo lines speaking to the heart with lyricism and grace. There is a feel of the new and old Williams coming together here and to marvellous results. I just can't get enough of this piece.

The more I think about it, the more confused I am about "Emilie's Theme". If it really is Emilie's theme, why does he do a sped up variation of the theme at 0:18 in Learning the Call?

[indy4]

KK, use some spoiler tags. I'm sure there are plenty of people in this thread that haven't seen the film yet.

[KK.]

My apologies, wasn't thinking straight (I blame the lack of sleep). I'm still pretty unsure how to use half the features on this forum

Again, sorry about that.

Happy New Year!

[Joe Brausam]

I don't think that's Emilie's theme in "Learning the Call". It's more just a rhythmic figure that happens to share the first 4 notes of the theme.

[Incanus]

I don't think that's Emilie's theme in "Learning the Call". It's more just a rhythmic figure that happens to share the first 4 notes of the theme.

Yes I agree here. Even though Williams is sometimes liberal with his use of themes and motifs I think this is just a coincidence of first 4 notes.