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John Carter (Of Mars) directed by Andrew Stanton, music by Michael Giacchino


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#321 Jay

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 02:47 PM


Just saw it. The movie's pretty good, though it doesn't start off as well as it could. There's a lot of ground to cover, and as a result there's a ton of exposition that slows the first half down. But by the end, it's great fun.

The score's fantastic. I think I know where the 'John Carter Theme' as heard on the radio show goes (

Spoiler
), but that's merely a guess.


It was listed as End Credits, Part 1 on the sheet music I saw (although this positioning is not reflected in the final film).

Incidentally, End Credits, Part 4 is an arrangement of the Thern material, and End Credits, Part 5 is another arrangement of the main John Carter theme.


Interesting - how about parts 2 and 3?

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#322 Chaac

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 03:09 PM

In the CD it seems to go like this (I haven't seen the film):

John Carter's Theme (no all of it) [End Credits Part 1]
Thark material
Thern material [End Credits part 4]
Dejah's Theme
Sola's music (?), leading into John Carter's Theme [End Credits Part 5]

I assume parts 2 and 3 are the Tharks and Dejah's music and they decided to change the order, moving the Thern segment before the Dejah segment. This way the tone of the credits is a bit more balanced.


So the fanfares for Zodanga and Helium are not on the End Credits. I have to give props to Giacchino because you can totally tell what is what without even seeing the film.

#323 karelm

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 01:29 AM

Just listening to the John Carter soundtrack...wow, it's much better than I remember it in the film. Probably my favorite Giacchino score to date. If you like David Arnold's old scores (Stargate, Independence Day) and Basil Poledouris's Starship Troopers, definitely check this one out. It's quite good.

#324 scallenger

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 04:38 AM

I'm one of those that actually liked the film. Nothing amazing, for sure, but I thought it was a fun movie for the most part and better than most sci-fi/fantasy in a long while. I like that it was a more "thoughtful" kind of film instead of just action, although I'm with everyone who was REALLY confused by what was going on for the first 20 minutes. I have never read the books so I was a virgin to all of it. It's a shame it hasn't performed that well, because I'd love to see what happens next by the way that it ended. I read that it is basically part of a trilogy, of course (with some other books/stories that were more like spin-offs).

As for the comment just made about enjoying the music far more on album than in the film, I think I know why: they mixed the music too low! I find this a problem with a lot of films of recent times. It's like they are afraid to let the music stand out because it's orchestra, only allowing pop or rock songs to ever have any volume. It's starting to irritate me more and more.
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#325 KK.

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 07:04 AM

For anyone interested, I finally got the review done for this score:

http://musicmusekk.w...hael-giacchino/

I must say, I really came to like this score.

- KK

#326 TheUlyssesian

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 04:01 PM

For anyone interested, I finally got the review done for this score:

http://musicmusekk.w...hael-giacchino/

I must say, I really came to like this score.

- KK

Great review KK. Just one question. Why do you call 2:11 – 2:30 in “The Fight for Helium” the B phrase of John Carter's theme. That is the main John Carter theme, its not the B Phrase.

If anything, there is a heroic variation of that theme or the second John Carter theme (of the B theme as I would call it) heard in the track Sab Than Pursues the Princess.

Its heard here from 3:22 to 3:33 and again from 3:47 to 3: 57. Its briefly quoted again during the ape scene. I think this is a terrific heroic motif and should have been used more often whenever John Carter did something heroic.

So long story short, what you are calling the B phrase is actually the A phrase and the above motif might be called the B phrase (or a variation of the main theme).

PS: I really loved this score. It works magnificently in the movie as well. I am gonna watch the movie again just for the score.

#327 BloodBoal

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 04:02 PM

More on John Carter debacle.

The Inside Story of How John Carter Was Doomed by Its First Trailer

I hate it when a film fails not because it's just a bad film, but because people think it sucks based on the trailers. Even people who didn't like it seems to say that it's not an overall bad film.

Bah!

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#328 TheUlyssesian

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 04:07 PM

Also KK, can you post the from what second to what second in which track is Sola's theme? I couldn't identify it.

#329 Chaac

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 05:20 PM

Also KK, can you post the from what second to what second in which track is Sola's theme? I couldn't identify it.


That was me, I haven't seen the film so I don't know if it's meaningful or just random music, but going with K.K.'s review I think it's the latter.

#330 Luke Skywalker

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 05:31 PM


Yeah I cancelled my Amazon.co.uk order and placed one at Amazon.com. And it shipped immediately. :)

Karol


i'll do that too. not taking any chances...


fuck it, amazon.uk has it on stock now.

Now i have to wait 15 days for it to arrive from the US....

I hope Episode III is Called 'Revenge of the Sith'

#331 KK.

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 05:37 PM


For anyone interested, I finally got the review done for this score:

http://musicmusekk.w...hael-giacchino/

I must say, I really came to like this score.

- KK

Great review KK. Just one question. Why do you call 2:11 – 2:30 in “The Fight for Helium” the B phrase of John Carter's theme. That is the main John Carter theme, its not the B Phrase.

If anything, there is a heroic variation of that theme or the second John Carter theme (of the B theme as I would call it) heard in the track Sab Than Pursues the Princess.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wT_CihVKFKc
Its heard here from 3:22 to 3:33 and again from 3:47 to 3: 57. Its briefly quoted again during the ape scene. I think this is a terrific heroic motif and should have been used more often whenever John Carter did something heroic.

So long story short, what you are calling the B phrase is actually the A phrase and the above motif might be called the B phrase (or a variation of the main theme).

PS: I really loved this score. It works magnificently in the movie as well. I am gonna watch the movie again just for the score.


Thank you my dear Ulyssessian ;) You're right, what I was referring to was not the B phrase but rather the second half of the theme. It was just a mix up in music vocabulary, it has been fixed. However, I believe what you're referring to is simply a heroic variation of John Carter's theme (as you suggested), not a potential B-Phrase.

I like Carter's theme, but the second half is a bit too overly optimistic for my tastes. I was looking out for the film when the waltz versions of the theme pop in to the film. The first appearance was during a comical sequence and it worked well, but the second time was during an intense climactic battle...it made no sense to make Carter's theme so. Dejah's theme is awesome though!


Also KK, can you post the from what second to what second in which track is Sola's theme? I couldn't identify it.


That was me, I haven't seen the film so I don't know if it's meaningful or just random music, but going with K.K.'s review I think it's the latter.


I don't think there was any specific theme/motif associated with Sola (or as it was in film). There are two other motifs that I didn't go into detail (although I mentioned them) in my review. There's the rapid motif that is associated with the "real world" montages (all of JC's activities on Earth in the film), and then there is the motif that shows up at 2:44 ish in The Blue Light Special, although I'm not sure what its associated with. It might be random music, but it does show up more than once on the album (probably a thematic variation of some sort).

#332 crocodile

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 05:53 PM



Yeah I cancelled my Amazon.co.uk order and placed one at Amazon.com. And it shipped immediately. :)

Karol


i'll do that too. not taking any chances...


fuck it, amazon.uk has it on stock now.

Now i have to wait 15 days for it to arrive from the US....

15? It takes only 7 in my case. Which means it might arrive on Thursday or Friday. I don't see why would it take a week longer to arrive in Spain...

But then again you probably saved some money as it costs almost 20 quid on Amazon.co.uk. Which is really expensive. In those tough times (not that other times are light), you made a good decision. ;)

Karol
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#333 Ro Sajooc

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 08:24 PM

I'll also have to wait 15 days (or more).
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#334 crocodile

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 10:07 PM

OK then, I just saw this film.

It is nowhere as bad as reviews state and nowhere as good as I'd like it to be. I can totally buy the bit hokey and cheesy premise of the film and as a classic adventure/fantasy/s-f it does the job well enough. But I couldn't help feeling a bit detached from the whole thing. Maybe it's the length, maybe it's 3D, I don't know. There is actually a story in there. A cliched one, but a character at least has some kind of arc. But the glass still feels half-empty for some reason.

Two things are certain: One, Giacchino drives the film on his own and Stanton owes him big time at several points. Second, we need a complete score. There's a whole lot missing. And some really good stuff, I might add. Suddenly 70+ releases seems... short.

Karol
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#335 JamieC

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 10:36 PM

I really enjoyed seeing 'JC' earlier this week. Nice to see a fantasy adventure movie with humour and an enjoyment in the swashbuckling sensibility. The music really did enhance the action and add to the relationships on screen. Heck, if I had time I'd go and see it again for sure.
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#336 dfenton85

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 10:39 PM

Second, we need a complete score. There's a whole lot missing. And some really good stuff, I might add. Suddenly 70+ releases seems... short.

Karol


Can you give a few examples of the really good stuff you feel is missing. Im going to see the movie again soon and I want to listen out for those?
Thanks

#337 Luke Skywalker

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 01:11 AM

But then again you probably saved some money as it costs almost 20 quid on Amazon.co.uk. Which is really expensive. In those tough times (not that other times are light), you made a good decision. ;)

Karol


i had preordered it for 10 quid. and had free shipping.

still i think i got it cheaper, but later :(

I hope Episode III is Called 'Revenge of the Sith'

#338 Incanus

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 05:17 AM

Two things are certain: One, Giacchino drives the film on his own and Stanton owes him big time at several points. Second, we need a complete score. There's a whole lot missing. And some really good stuff, I might add. Suddenly 70+ releases seems... short.

Karol

I got that impression from the OST itself. It feels like there is a lot missing somehow.

Ars superior est vita hominum.

 

"We pop out and come into the world and music is there. We didn't invent it - it's all organised in the atmosphere by divinity or whatever. It's a miracle." - John Williams-

 

I think music is a stream of some kind. It could be blood. It could be water. It could be ether. Whatever it is it seems to be a living, organic force that’s in motion, that serves humanity and is part of humanity and part of what describes us as humans. We sing, play, dance, all the things that we do. And there is a vibrant and great literature we have been given. ... As musicians, we join the stream. We swim in the stream with all the other millions of music makers. It’s a life force, a strong one, surrounding us and we are part of it. -John Williams-


#339 king mark

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 05:21 AM

I saw the movie tonight and while it's no classic, it certainly was entertaining and it felt like massive effort was out into it.

It was scored almost wall to wall so it means there must be a truckload of unreleased music

Can you give a few examples of the really good stuff you feel is missing. Im going to see the movie again soon and I want to listen out for those?
Thanks


Just the sheer amount of music missing and that there didn't seem to be any boring cues in the film

#340 scallenger

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 05:46 AM

One fun action bit missing from the album is that one scene on the speeder-bike type thing that he "escapes" on after a certain scene.
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#341 Delorean90

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 01:53 PM

I also really liked the music for the first meeting between John and the Tharks. Had a nice Goldsmithian tone to it, especially with the type and usage of percussion.

#342 TheUlyssesian

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 09:14 PM

One fun action bit missing from the album is that one scene on the speeder-bike type thing that he "escapes" on after a certain scene.

I believe this is the music you are referring to, heard in this scene -



Yes this cue is not on the OST I believe.

#343 KK.

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 06:20 AM

Here's the demo reel for John Carter:


I love how they used Yared's rejected score for Troy in there. It's awesome!

I'd say this reel is better than the actual film ;)

#344 scallenger

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 06:59 AM

Yes, TheUlyssesian, that is indeed the scene I'm talking about! :) And hearing the music again, wow, I really wish it was on the OST, because it certainly is not. I'll have to watch the film again to refresh my mind with what else is missing, but for me that was the most obvious. It's longer than seen in that clip, too, I remember the first part right before that clip starts is also great, and the end of it as well. Would love to hear this cue somehow, I wonder how low the chances are of a expanded release of this score like what happened with Star Trek so soon after it came out? Or was that just because it was a Varese album thing? Maybe Intrada could have a chance at this one. ;)
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#345 TheUlyssesian

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 08:53 AM

If this score gets some Academy Awards Consideration (and I am thinking that it might), we might get some Promo FYC CDs with a lot of the unreleased music.

But inspite of some pieces missing, I think the music on the OST is well chosen and represented. Most of the major cues are present.

#346 publicist

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 11:38 AM

It's a mammoth 70+-minutes release, i don't think anyone could complain about the length...well, men can always complain about length, just not JOHN Carter-wise.
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#347 Incanus

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 11:58 AM

It's a mammoth 70+-minutes release, i don't think anyone could complain about the length...well, men can always complain about length, just not JOHN Carter-wise.

:rimshot:

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"We pop out and come into the world and music is there. We didn't invent it - it's all organised in the atmosphere by divinity or whatever. It's a miracle." - John Williams-

 

I think music is a stream of some kind. It could be blood. It could be water. It could be ether. Whatever it is it seems to be a living, organic force that’s in motion, that serves humanity and is part of humanity and part of what describes us as humans. We sing, play, dance, all the things that we do. And there is a vibrant and great literature we have been given. ... As musicians, we join the stream. We swim in the stream with all the other millions of music makers. It’s a life force, a strong one, surrounding us and we are part of it. -John Williams-


#348 KK.

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 02:50 PM

If this score gets some Academy Awards Consideration (and I am thinking that it might), we might get some Promo FYC CDs with a lot of the unreleased music.

But inspite of some pieces missing, I think the music on the OST is well chosen and represented. Most of the major cues are present.


Well...we know this score isn't going to get any Academy Awards Consideration (because of the film and its nature), and as publicist so cleverly pointed out, this is already a big release, so I wouldn't count on a promo.

#349 TheUlyssesian

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 07:12 PM

Saw the movie again today and there is indeed a ton of stuff not there on the album. Like someone said, this is wall to wall music, barely 10-15 mins in a 2 hour 10 minute film where the music is not present.

I first reckoned I'd a keep a mental not of all the cues missing from the album but gave up after 10 or so as I realized its gonna be a lot. We are easily talking about 40-45 minutes of unreleased material and some of it is very good.

#350 Joe Brausam

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 01:46 AM

Good reason for me not to see the film then! I can't miss what I haven't heard. :yes:

#351 Bryant Burnette

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 03:09 AM

Loved the movie, loved the score. What a shame it's bombing so badly.

#352 king mark

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 03:11 AM


If this score gets some Academy Awards Consideration (and I am thinking that it might), we might get some Promo FYC CDs with a lot of the unreleased music.

But inspite of some pieces missing, I think the music on the OST is well chosen and represented. Most of the major cues are present.


Well...we know this score isn't going to get any Academy Awards Consideration (because of the film and its nature), and as publicist so cleverly pointed out, this is already a big release, so I wouldn't count on a promo.


Meh this is not a Williams scores so expect leaked recording sessions within 3 months

#353 Jay

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 03:28 AM

No doubt. There is no Giacchino score to date whose recording sessions havent leaked

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#354 scallenger

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 04:19 AM

Well the sessions for Super 8 haven't leaked, have they? Unless you are just counting the FYC CD.
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#355 Miles Prower

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 04:27 AM

That one might be too soon to tell, though I'm hoping they leak fairly quickly. There's a few alternates I'd like to get in better quality.
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#356 king mark

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 08:38 AM

I'd be interested in the complete John Carter score. I've been listening to it a lot along with Black Gold

#357 BloodBoal

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 09:23 AM

Wow, KM is interested in a complete score NOT by John Williams? What happened to you, man?

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#358 Jay

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 01:44 PM

Well the sessions for Super 8 haven't leaked, have they? Unless you are just counting the FYC CD.


They have, and so have Star Trek, Monte Carlo, and Mission Impossible 4, etc. They may not all be "public" yet but its only a matter of time. I haven't seen John Carter yet but seriously - everything score he does has the sessions leak eventually. It's great!

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#359 Max Rebo

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 04:50 PM

The score was one of Gia's finest IMHO. And the film was a pleasant surprise also. Far from perfect but fun enough. I saw it free because my Tron:Legacy Blu-ray had a promo-code for 12 dollars towards John Carter. Maybe that added to the sweetness of the film, no heafty ticket price in lingering in the back of my mind. I've never read the books or heard of them until recently, any good? I hear John Carter has quite a fan-base.

#360 crocodile

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 05:11 PM

Well, finally got my CD and I must say this is Giacchino's best feature film work.

Karol
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