184 replies to this topic

[Quint]

Empire doesn't look '80s, it looks timeless. The Terminator, Aliens, Starship Troopers, Total Recall look '80s.

I just disagree with this.

[Stefancos]

Robocop also looks very 80's.

Alex, Troopers was a 1997 film.

[Alexcremers]

Except the quality of effects, it looks '80s in just about everything ... style, aesthetics, lighting, sets, ... I'm surprised that it's made in 1997.

[Stefancos]

Verhoeven's films do tend to look a bit dated. Maybe it's because of Jost Vacano's camerwork.

Jan de Bont's work for him was a bit better.

[Alexcremers]

I agree. Alien, a '70s movie, looks more modern (or less 'dated') than anything Verhoeven did in the '80s or the '90s. Verhoeven's movies remind me of cheap sci-fi titles which you could find in video rental stores during the '80s. You know, the ones you never wanted to see.

The Fifth Element is from 1997 and that I believe.

[Quint]

Except the quality of effects, it looks '80s in just about everything ... style, aesthetics, lighting, sets, ... I'm surprised that it's made in 1997.

That poster is unknown to me. I can see why you rooted it out though - to support your argument.



That's the poster most people are familiar with. Starship Troopers does not look eighties at all. It couldn't look more nineties if it tried.







The film shares a very similar aesthetic to other sci-fi of the era. Stargate, Star Trek: Voyager and even seaQuest DSV. Nineties pulp.

[E.T. & Elliott]

It's like a mishmash of 80s and 90s. Either way, not timeless or anything.

A movie like Empire Strikes Back has aged very well. Only some of the hairstyles and wardrobe may appear to have originated from its era. Since they adjusted the snow battle, that scene is perfect for all time. Well, except the colors are all screwed up.

[Quint]

Right now the two most dated movies I can think of are Robocop and Total Recall. They look like shit, but nowadays the trashy look adds appeal.

[Stefancos]

The Robocop suit still looks great though.

[Quint]

It does.

[Alexcremers]

Quint, you sorta posted the same photo over and over again. But it doesn't matter, the colors, the video look, the Marine suits that are a bad, almost spoofy copy of the Marines in Aliens, which is from 1986. Last time I saw Aliens it reminded me of Starship Troopers.That's why both movies looks so damn eighties to me. Thanks for making my case. How this strikes you as very '90s is a mystery to me.

Actually, it's not a mystery to me. These are the precious movies from your childhood and you consider them untouchable and holy. You are letting nostalgia get in the way of good judgement. Either way, the photos prove the dated look.




In fact, Aliens (1986) looks less dated than Starship Troopers (1997).

[Quint]

You're wrong about Starship Troopers looking like an eightees movie (it parodies one at best, but it's unmistakably a product of the nineties), if you can't see it it's because you're going blind, seriously - you're talking shit here, and you're wrong in your assumption that it's a movie from my "precious childhood". I was 20 and sharing a student's bedsit with a girlfriend at the time.

Frankly, I find it amusing that someone who considers themselves a connoisseur of filmic aesthetics (oh how he does!) evidently can't tell their arse from their elbow when it comes to daft sci-fi schlock-fest Starship Troopers.

Anyway, if the debate is to continue I suggest you pursue a different line of attack than the subjective attachment one you just came at me with, since you aimed far wide of the mark with that one.

[Alexcremers]

It's precisely because I look at the overall production design that I thought it was '80s. Look at Aliens ... now look at Starship Troopers. It belongs to the same period and style. I'm gonna repeat it, it even looks more dated than Aliens (as if it's a caricature version of the look). If I was blind, I wouldn't care for these things. I still wonder why you think it's very '90s. What other '90s productions are you thinking of? How can you look at your posted photos and say, this is so 1997?

[Stefancos]

The CGI alone roots it firmly in the 90's Alex.

[Alexcremers]

Like I already said, I'm not talking about the effects but the production design: art design, sets, lighting ... the look of the film.

Other famous sci-fi flicks from the nineties are Strange Days, Gattaca, The Fifth Element, Dark City, The Phantom Menace ... but with Starship, we're suddenly reliving the '80s.

[Quint]

What other '90s productions are you thinking of? How can you look at your posted photos and say, this is so 1997?

The film shares a very similar aesthetic to other sci-fi of the era. Stargate, Star Trek: Voyager and even seaQuest DSV. Nineties pulp.

You sure about that blindness thing?

But okay, for fun...

For starters, I don't remember seeing great big blatant cg set pieces (and creatures) anywhere in Aliens. That's one 'slight' distinction worth highlighting. I don't buy your approach that it's acceptable to conveniently overlook this MASSIVE element of the movie, sorry.

But looking at real world stuff, you know - the basic stuff; Rico's hair was very popular circa '97. In fact it's a style which some continue to wear to this day (unlike Reiser's Aliens bouffant)





Look at this font:



Cheesy nineties gameshow screen splash!





What is this, Beverly Hill 90210?

[Alexcremers]

For starters, I don't remember seeing great big blatant cg set pieces (and creatures) anywhere in Aliens.

Are you sure about the blindness? I already said I don't include the effects, twice! His hairdo is '90s? Look at this picture of Total Recall:



All clean and '80s like. Not the grunge look of the '90s.

Like this, for instance:





Except for the stunningly looking Denise Richards here, everything is mega '80s. The list is endless.

[Quint]

What? Since when have you followed trends? I know exactly which hairstyles were the rage in 1997 - I was fucking obsessed with my hair back then! Believe me, I know.

Eighties:



Nineties:



Eighties:



Nineties:



Eighties:



Nineties:




Boyband Take That in 1997:



I mean, how much more clueless can you get in this thread? This has to be the most ridiculous dispute ever in the history of JWFan!

[Stefancos]

Lee, it just dawned on me.

You are the new Morlock....

[Quint]

That old conjuror ain't got shit on me!

[E.T. & Elliott]

You're both right about certain elements here. The Rico style was popular in the 80s and 90s. It's still doable today. Short to medium length on top combed over? That's a seriously basic hair style. In fact, there's something that works for Troopers in regards to dated stuff. Whereas the 80s toupee style from Aliens is bloody awful. I still get annoyed seeing Kirk with that thing on his head sometimes.

[Stefancos]

Hey man, dont bash Kirk!

[E.T. & Elliott]

I have to try and not focus on it.

[indy4]

Some of the effects in Poltergeist were pretty dated. Some still look great, but when that lady opened Carol Ann's door and all the stuff was flying around you could tell this was from the early 80s.

[E.T. & Elliott]

It looks cool in its own way, though. It's dated in all the best ways.

[Quint]

The face ripped off in the mirror is the worst, but I still love it.

[indy4]

The face ripping is a cool dated effect, the stuff flying in the room is distractingly bad IMO.

[Richard]

The thing that really dates "Aliens", is the graininess of the film, which James Cameron talks about in his commentary.

The one film that just doesen't age a day is "2001". In fact, it gets more and more prescient with each passing year, as do both "Brazil", and "Blade Runner".
Anyway, so what if these films look dated? They were made at a certain time, with all the advances, and the limitations of the day. Does anyone criticize "A Matter Of Life And Death" for looking dated (with, or without Technicolor!)?

I know what the thrust of this thread is, but I try to look through the technical inadequacies of a piece of work, and focus on the ideas that it is trying to convey. Those who don't even try to do that, should not be watching films.

[Stefancos]

Aliens looks like it was made on sub-standard film stock. I wonder why.

But it's the films mentality more then anything else that puts it in the 80's. Vietnam allegory, greedy 80's yuppies. It only needed tom Cruise in there somewhere.

[Ricard]

The one film that just doesen't age a day is "2001". In fact, it gets more and more prescient with each passing year, as do both "Brazil", and "Blade Runner".

Amen to that.

Anyway, so what if these films look dated? They were made at a certain time, with all the advances, and the limitations of the day. Does anyone criticize "A Matter Of Life And Death" for looking dated (with, or without Technicolor!)?

I don't think they're criticizing them, just pointing out if they look dated or not.

[Richard]

Aliens looks like it was made on sub-standard film stock. I wonder why.

But it's the films mentality more then anything else that puts it in the 80's. Vietnam allegory, greedy 80's yuppies. It only needed tom Cruise in there somewhere.

Check out Cameron's commentry on the DVD/Blu. The bit in question starts at the touchdown of the drop-ship. He also explains why he did not shoot it in 2.35:1.
Agreed about the film's mentality, though. It is a film that could only have been made in the '80s.

[ymenard]

Aliens looks like it was made on sub-standard film stock. I wonder why.

The Blu-Ray is miles beyond every Aliens release.

[Quint]

The one film that just doesen't age a day is "2001". In fact, it gets more and more prescient with each passing year, as do both "Brazil", and "Blade Runner".

Amen to that.

Anyway, so what if these films look dated? They were made at a certain time, with all the advances, and the limitations of the day. Does anyone criticize "A Matter Of Life And Death" for looking dated (with, or without Technicolor!)?

I don't think they're criticizing them, just pointing out if they look dated or not.

As far as Alex is concerned, he's absolutely criticising them for looking 'dated' - his limited perspective (self imposed) wouldn't allow for anything else. I personaly would never seriously rip a movie for showing its age. I was humouring the guy.

[Alexcremers]

The thing that really dates "Aliens", is the graininess of the film, which James Cameron talks about in his commentary.

I have the blu-ray. It's an improvement over the DVD, but still, many parts or scenes don't really look that good. Could also be a lighting and composition thing. Especially disappointing after watching Alien. The aspect ratio of Aliens isn't attractive either. It looks 'zoomed in' a little.

The one film that just doesen't age a day is "2001". In fact, it gets more and more prescient with each passing year ... and "Blade Runner".

Amen to that as well, even though the special effect of Blade Runner do tend to date more since they are all optical effects. Still, in theater, the film is a jewel to behold. The composition, lichting and art direction of these films is so arty and yet functional, it doesn't date, even though you can see from which period they are.


Terminator 2 looks really good in HD, BTW. A visual feast after watching Terminator 1.

Alex

[Sandor]

I always felt Cronenberg's The Fly is one of the most enduring films from the 80's.

[Ricard]

I always felt Cronenberg's The Fly is one of the most enduring films from the 80's.

Agreed. It's also one of his best films, and Shore's best score

[Stefancos]

It's OK, but lacks the thematic abundance of The Lord Of The Rings.

[Ricard]

It's much more than OK and it doesn't need that many themes, obviously.

[Quint]

If he'd approached it in the same way he did LotR, we'd have a theme for Goldblum, a theme for Davis, a theme for the Fly, a theme for the teleporter, an inverted arrangement of that theme for the other teleporter, a theme for the guy who gets puked on, a theme for that bit of splintered wood in the door frame, a theme for...

[Chaac]

The one film that just doesen't age a day is "2001". In fact, it gets more and more prescient with each passing year ....

The lightning in space is wrong. I don't know if they were conscious of this when they were making the film or not.