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FILM: Watchmen: The Directors Cut


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#41 Stefancos

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 10:00 PM

I find the critisism here on watchmen to be very puzzling.

First I am reading that the film is far to reverential of the comic and therefore is not able to be it's own thing, and cannot be a masterpiece.

Then all I am reading is that Snyder did not copy the look of the comic closely enough and that is a bad thing?

really guys?

#42 Chaac

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 11:32 PM

Depends if you're talking about the plot or about the themes. My point on the film is that it could have been a bit more free on the story in order to reflect some ideas more closely.

In my opinion the film actually looks a lot like the book except some specific stuff.

#43 Alexcremers

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 07:55 AM

I've seen some comparisons between the comic book and the film (photo stills) and while both contain the same information, the latter always looks better to me.

On the one hand, David Gibbons says he loved the American comics while growing up and that he even tried to work for DC and Marvel. Looking at the comic book of Watchmen, this makes completely sense to me. On the other hand, Gibbons says he wanted Watchmen to be completely different from anything else. Now, I'm not saying it's precisely the same as the American comic books, but god damned, it's pretty close.

The work of Moebius, yes, that's something completely different.
Television is way more interesting than cinema now. It seems like the art-house has gone to cable. - David Lynch

#44 Stefancos

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 12:30 PM

Maybe the real comic book experts can see the radical differences between Watchmen and other comics of the era.

#45 Chaac

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 02:19 PM

I'm definitely not an expert and definitely not an expert on Usamerican comic books so I won't go there much more. Even thougb Gibbons and Moore and British.

Back to the film, I find it interesting some cuts and jumps through the film. For example the way Jon goes to Mars directly, or, later after he says life is miraculous, and the camera goes up so we see the crater where they are and the sound jumps suddenly into a song, almost a bit to soon of what could be expected... even if we expected a song right there at all. At first I didn't know what to think but after I while I realized I enjoyed it.

The work of Moebius, yes, that's something completely different.

You might like Le Garage hermétique (Airtight Garage).

#46 Stefancos

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 03:54 PM

I like Underzo........

#47 Chaac

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 04:06 PM

There's a lot to like in Asterix.

I'm seeing this film tomorrow morning, all this talk made me want to see it again.

#48 Red Rabbit

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 06:45 PM

I find the critisism here on watchmen to be very puzzling.

First I am reading that the film is far to reverential of the comic and therefore is not able to be it's own thing, and cannot be a masterpiece.

Then all I am reading is that Snyder did not copy the look of the comic closely enough and that is a bad thing?

really guys?


I wasn't advocating for the literal translation of the comic panel by panel, because I think that's stifling to cinematic storytelling (comics and films are very different mediums). I was simply calling for Snyder to capture what Moore and Gibbons were saying with their visuals along with their prose.
Do you like John Williams? His early work was a little too jazzy for my taste, but when Jaws came out in '75 I really think he came into his own, commercially and artistically. The whole album has a clear, crisp sound, and an air of consummate professionalism that really gives the pieces a big boost. He's been compared to Jerry Goldsmith but I think John has a far more leitmotif-driven style of composing. In '82 John composed this, E.T., his most accomplished album to date. I think his undisputed masterpiece is "The Magic of Halloween", a theme so catchy most people don't listen to what it means. But they should, because it's not just about the pleasures of childhood and the importance of friendship, it's also a personal statement about the man himself. Hey Paul!
- Patrick Bateman on the Maestro

John Takis' Complete Hook Analysis


#49 Stefancos

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 08:17 PM

As far as I'm concerned he exceeded that.

#50 Chaac

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 03:35 AM

I disagree, and when I fix my computer so I have sound through HDMI I'll finally be able to see the film again and explain where some of the problems are.

Signed - Chaac, the nitpicking jerk.

#51 Alexcremers

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 07:08 AM

The film isn't for everyone. After all, it's Zack Snyder. I'm already surprised that I'm not the only one around here who likes it.

(comics and films are very different mediums).


Actually, they are not that different at all. Both tell stories by using images. Most movies start out as comics (storyboards). The only thing comics don't have is sound.
Television is way more interesting than cinema now. It seems like the art-house has gone to cable. - David Lynch

#52 crocodile

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 09:53 AM

FIlms images run at certain speed so you can't appreciate detail. You can't slow it down are go back a few seconds or minutes (not while watching them as intended anyway). Fims support you with emotional guidance (by sound, music, acting), whereas in comics you do some of these things on your own. Basically, while reading anything you're also a co-creator of the world. In comics to lesser extent than in books, but still. If you think about it, that's a huge difference.

Karol
"Modern, serious music has become embroiled in an intellectual discussion that has no place in music. Certainly, the great composer of the past were geniuses and used their intellect, but only to serve their emotions and guide their craft. Not to dictate to them what they should or shouldn't write" - Michael Kamen, 1995

 


#53 Stefancos

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 11:52 AM

That's why the look of the Watchmen comic would not work on film. To crammed for of stuff. With a comic you can choose how much time to spend on each panel.

#54 Alexcremers

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 12:03 PM

Well, there have to be differences, of course, but I can't think of two other media more closely related than film and comic books. The visual side (the drawings) of a comic book is all about "emotional guidance". Yes, there's no sound but there's no sound in silent movies either, remember? If one should wish, film can be as basic as a comic book simply by not using other tools (film can benefit from combining different art forms together). And I believe that the best movies allow the opportunity for the viewer to be co-creators as well, for they tempt us to bring our own contributions to the table or to see things that are not captured within the frame.

Personally, I've never created a score in my head while reading a comic book.


Alex
Television is way more interesting than cinema now. It seems like the art-house has gone to cable. - David Lynch

#55 crocodile

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 12:59 PM

You too my post a little bit too literally, Alex. If I tried to create a score in my head, then I would treat a comic book as a film that doesn't move. Which wasn't my point. Yes, I agree with you that a good film gives audience something to do, but, most often than not, it's not the case. Sound design, music define to a point where you can experience it only in a certain way.

Karol
"Modern, serious music has become embroiled in an intellectual discussion that has no place in music. Certainly, the great composer of the past were geniuses and used their intellect, but only to serve their emotions and guide their craft. Not to dictate to them what they should or shouldn't write" - Michael Kamen, 1995

 


#56 Chaac

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 04:49 PM

That's why the look of the Watchmen comic would not work on film. To crammed for of stuff. With a comic you can choose how much time to spend on each panel.

Actually I think good comic books create a rythm and guide the reader or at least hint at the reader at how the book is supposed to be read, Long panels, short panels, distribution of important stuff through a panel guiding the eye to the next, distribution of panels through a page, even double page compositions. etc. Actually, Watchmen is one of the classic examples of many things you only do in comic books.

I have to admit Snyder picked this up, because it's obvious he loves the book to death, and put stuff in the film you only do in films. The long opening credits to explain the world. He picked up the songs mentioned in the book and put them somewhere. He went Dr Strangelove or Apocalypse Now at one point or another. He uses movement and slow motion to great effect sometimes. Actually I could have done with a few more film specific ideas.




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