1781 replies to this topic

[Maurizio]

If La-La Land is giving us the composers intentions AND breaking what would otherwise be a 30-minute track into individual tracks so that the listener can still jump to his favorite moments but the composer's original intentions are preserved, they should absolutely be applauded.

It's how I would have done it if I was the album producer. And its what Williams wanted for this release!

Amen.

[Josh500]

If La-La Land is giving us the composers intentions AND breaking what would otherwise be a 30-minute track into individual tracks so that the listener can still jump to his favorite moments but the composer's original intentions are preserved, they should absolutely be applauded.

It's how I would have done it if I was the album producer. And its what Williams wanted for this release!

Amen.

Amen to the amen!

[BloodBoal]

You can't "Amen" an "Amen". That's against the rules of the "Amen".

[Josh500]

You can't "Amen" an "Amen". That's against the rules of the "Amen".

You can't use the word "Amen" more than twice within one post!

That's also against the rules!

[Trent Bennett]

3 years of waiting, we're finally getting Hook and all people can do is complain because of how the tracks will be setup?

[Josh500]

3 years of waiting, we're finally getting Hook and all people can do is complain because of how the tracks will be setup?

Okay who's complaining?

[Incanus]

There is debate on preferences on how the tracks are presented. And I will utterly deny complaining about the release. Infact I have proclaimed my happiness about it ever since it was announced. Oh the joy! The joy!

[Josh500]

I think I'd be "complaining" if there were an 18-minute track on the album!

[Delorean90]

Don't ever listen to any symphonies?

And re: "The End of Hook"--

[Josh500]

I do, but Hook (as great as it is) is hardly a symphony!

[Maurizio]

I for one prefer to listen to the cues with all the segues exactly how the composer wrote them. It's nice to have indexed tracks so you can go quickly to a preferred point without loading the entire track, but I don't have problems if they're edited into longer 10min-plus tracks. To have all the cues separated in recording sessions style on an official album is nonsense to me. The separation of the cues Williams and other composers do is only for actual recording and music editing purposes. Splitting a large section of continued music into smaller 2-3min. cues makes quicker and easier for the composer to get a good performance and it's also easier for the music editor to use them for the final dubbing mix. But the music is clearly written to be heard in an uninterrupted flow.

[Josh500]

12 minutes is the limit, for me at least.

"Indy's Very First Adventure", the expanded version, is exactly 12 minutes, and I often find myself wanting to listen to the last 5 minutes... and it's somewhat of a pain every time!

But 12 minutes is still okay.

[Delorean90]

I for one prefer to listen to the cues with all the segues exactly how the composer wrote them. It's nice to have indexed tracks so you can go quickly to a preferred point without loading the entire track, but I don't have problems if they're edited into longer 10min-plus tracks. To have all the cues separated in recording sessions style on an official album is nonsense to me. The separation of the cues Williams and other composers do is only for actual recording and music editing purposes. Splitting a large section of continued music into smaller 2-3min. cues makes quicker and easier for the composer to get a good performance and it's also easier for the music editor to use them for the final dubbing mix. But the music is clearly written to be heard in an uninterrupted flow.

Precisely.

Hook may not be a symphony, but if I'm listening to whole thing in one sitting, I'd just as soon have the music be continuous where it was intended to be so. It can be more bothersome (for me anyway) to hear--as has been mentioned regarding the Concord TOD, for instance--music, clearly meant to flow together, disrupted by a few moments of silence.

[Josh500]

Precisely.

Hook may not be a symphony, but if I'm listening to whole thing in one sitting, I'd just as soon have the music be continuous where it was intended to be so. It can be more bothersome (for me anyway) to hear--as has been mentioned regarding the Concord TOD, for instance--music, clearly meant to flow together, disrupted by a few moments of silence.

Yes, if.

Honestly, I am not talking about dividing an 18 minute track into countless little pieces of about a minute or less! Duh. Surely there is a middle ground!

And there is a big difference between the way it's meant to be heard in the movies (oftentimes a cue goes on and on, segues seamlessly into the next cue, etc.), and the way it's best presented on an album. Breaking up an overlong piece into 2 or 3 sections, in a way that makes sense... that's what I am talking about! And for my taste 18 minutes is just too long.

No way JW regards this18-minute piece as only "one cue."

[Chaac]

If it can be heard from beginning to end, what's the difference?

[Josh500]

Actually this is no big deal whatsoever!



Either way, I am glad we are finally getting this "Expanded Hook"!

[Incanus]

I for one prefer to listen to the cues with all the segues exactly how the composer wrote them. It's nice to have indexed tracks so you can go quickly to a preferred point without loading the entire track, but I don't have problems if they're edited into longer 10min-plus tracks. To have all the cues separated in recording sessions style on an official album is nonsense to me. The separation of the cues Williams and other composers do is only for actual recording and music editing purposes. Splitting a large section of continued music into smaller 2-3min. cues makes quicker and easier for the composer to get a good performance and it's also easier for the music editor to use them for the final dubbing mix. But the music is clearly written to be heard in an uninterrupted flow.

Precisely.

Hook may not be a symphony, but if I'm listening to whole thing in one sitting, I'd just as soon have the music be continuous where it was intended to be so. It can be more bothersome (for me anyway) to hear--as has been mentioned regarding the Concord TOD, for instance--music, clearly meant to flow together, disrupted by a few moments of silence.

Yes I agree as much as I did on the previous page.

[John Takis]

You can't "Amen" an "Amen". That's against the rules of the "Amen".

John 1:51; 3:3, 5, 11; 5:19, 24, 25; 6:26, 32, 47, 53; 8:34, 51, 58; 10:1, 7; 12:24; 13:16, 20, 21, 38; 14:12; 16:20, 23; and 21:18.

[Wojo]

John Takis FTW.

~*~

Genesis' "Supper's Ready" is over 23 minutes long. Pink Floyd's "Echoes" is even longer. Movements to symphonies can run upwards of a half hour. I wouldn't dream of cutting them into smaller tracks.

On the flip side, some of the longer tracks in Wagner's complete Ring Cycle are easily 90 minutes or more in length.

[Trent Bennett]

If La-La Land is giving us the composers intentions AND breaking what would otherwise be a 30-minute track into individual tracks so that the listener can still jump to his favorite moments but the composer's original intentions are preserved, they should absolutely be applauded.

Indeed. The setup for the "Ultimate War" pieces on LLL's Hook doesn't bother me one bit. The great thing about today is, if one has the skills and applications to edit music, then they can separate those big bits into smaller tracks for gapless playback, if they wish to do it that way.

[wanner251]

I think Hook is internally one of John Williams' most diverse and varied score. It is also one of the most dense. It is an amazing amount of material and very little of it repeats itself. All of his motifs and themes are presented and then interwoven more densely as the film unfolds. It really is a work of genius and one of my favorites. I have the original, and one of the better sounding bootlegs, but I think they will pale in comparison to this new release. I'll be putting my money down the day of release! Bring on the Hook! And now if we could just get someone to release the full recording sessions of Chamber of Secrets, I'd be able to sleep a whole night through.

[hanser]

The one thing I am worried about is: Will be the unsufferable "We dont wanna grow up" and "Banning back home" be in film order, which I would hate because I would have to program the disc differently, or do they put them at the end of a disc, like source music.

[Incanus]

The one thing I am worried about is: Will be the unsufferable "We dont wanna grow up" and "Banning back home" be in film order, which I would hate because I would have to program the disc differently, or do they put them at the end of a disc, like source music.

Well that is nothing but minuscule inconvenience that you can yourself rectify. I certainly prefer them where they are, part of the musical storytelling. And you can always skip them if you don't like them.

[crx_brett]

I don't think 'Banning Back Home' will be at the end since it really is not Source Music. It's still part of the score, as much as that is hard to swallow for fans (or non-fans). Sure it isn't in the same vain as the rest of the score, but that was the whole point and intention. John Williams' roots are that of a jazz musician and many of his scores have a definite jazz influence. I see this cue as a chance for him to utilize those tools to create a jazzy, on-the-go, city life, fast paced cue and to show how manic and out of touch Peter was with his family. The cue might be a tad dated or slightly cliche to some, but I firmly believe it is part of the score without any question.

Now if the cue were playing in the car or something while Peter was maybe driving it would be a source cue.

[Maurizio]

"Banning Back Home" will definitely be on the main program where it belongs. I guess it will be the full film version (funnily called "Yuppie Sounds" on the manuscript), while the OST version will probably be placed at the end of Disc 2 as a bonus track. Same goes for "We Don't Wanna Grow Up", I presume.

In terms of source music, there's the fun calliope-like arrangement of "Take Me Out to the Ball Game" and the christmas carol heard faintly in the background when Peter and family arrive at Granny Wendy's home.

I personally hope LLL will retrieve the "Prologue" (aka "Hook Trailer") as the opening track like in the OST--it definitely gives the feeling of a miniature concert overture.

[Stefancos]

Wrong! Obviously it should start with the Tri-Star logo!

[Drax]

What is people's problem with "Banning Back Home"?

[Chaac]

Other than being different to the rest of the score (which doesn't bother me) it sounds like Grusin. Which doesn't bother me either.

[Ro Sajooc]

I think "Banning Back Home" is not a bad cue. It's just different.

[tannhauser]

I love banning back home!

[Wojo]

I want the "insufferable" tracks left right where they are on the OST, and just flesh out the missing music around them. That's how my quite enjoyable and listenable footwarmer is constructed, aside from the horrendous sound quality of the second half of The Ultimate War. Barring that, that is what I'll "build" for my iPod using the tracks of the set.

[hanser]

It just does not fit tonally to the rest of the score. After the Prologue it is a similar cold shower like the Training Montage in Spacecamp.

[Wojo]

I...never mind.

[Luke Skywalker]

I want those two tracks in film order and in their film versions, never released

the tristar logo does not belong here since it's by grushin.

I want the prologue as opening...

[pixie_twinkle]

I love banning back home!

Me too. It sets the whole nostalgic US suburbia scene perfectly. I actually bought my first Grusin album AFTER hearing Banning Back Home, just to find out where Williams' inspiration came from.

[FrankV]

Under Scores has published an interview (in French) with Didier C. Deutch, who was involved making the upcoming Hook release. According to the interview the album has two discs and at the request of John Williams certain cues that Williams found too repetitive were eliminated.

EDIT: According to the interview "Take Me Out to the Ball Game" will not be included on the album.

[crx_brett]

Interesting. That interview also confirms that he was trying to push hard for a full release for Titanic (including the film version and what would be a full 2-disc album) but Sony didn't want to spend the money. He also says to be patient and is hopeful there will eventually be a full release perhaps for the 20th anniversary.

[Miles Prower]

Under Scores has published an interview (in French) with Didier C. Deutch, who was involved making the upcoming Hook release. According to the interview the album has two discs and at the request of John Williams certain cues that Williams found too repetitive were eliminated.

EDIT: According to the interview "Take Me Out to the Ball Game" will not be included on the album.

A little disappointing, but oh well. Seems like all the important stuff will be on there.

[Incanus]

John did it again it seems. John Williams is just too damn humble for our good.

[Delorean90]

Too repetitive? I'm racking my brain here...Maaaayybe "Hook's Lament"?