1781 replies to this topic

[Luke Skywalker]

That said, I find it strange that some posters are expressing their disappointment in Mr Williams' involvement in this release, and his requests to withhold certain cues. This is his work, after all! As a creative artist, he has every right, I believe, to ask for his work to be presented in a way that reflects his wishes.However much we might want lock, stock and barrel, it's not up to us. We might not agree with his choices, but we have to respect them. Really, after all the years of pleasure he's given us, doesn't he deserve that?

the thing is williams has a 'wicked' sense of humility that makes him embarrased when he revisits his works. He is completely wrong, though...

So, George Lucas is completely entitled to what he does with the SW films, then? Or some 'common good' preservation should be applied?

[indy4]

Artistic works are very personal. If you made something and you don't want the public to have it in a certain format, you have every right to deny them that.

It's still perfectly okay as a fan to desire the extra music, unedited cues, etc. But the composer does not have an obligation to provide something that might embarrass or dissatisfy him/her.

[king mark]

What it said is that they had the complete score master tapes , put it on the disks, then Williams removed some cues

[Wojo]

That doesn't mean it's worse. Would you be okay with a Star Wars release that didn't include Cantina Band?

That depends. Do I already have Cantina Band?

[Luke Skywalker]

For the same reason you complain about missing a few seconds from The Matrix, Stargate, and the choir from Star Trek 2009.

That isn't a very good example as that's different. Those complaints are valid as it was actual music from the score itself that was left off those releases. "Take Me Out To The Ball Game" is source music, not the actual damn score.

Trent... 'Take me out' is one of the out of tone cues. the repetitive cues must be part of the score.

BTW you already were telling people not to complain for missing SCORE cues before 'take me out' was mentioned...

Look, everyone has their favorite scores ,and everyone wants them complete. It's a legit sentiment, and we can complain since we pay for it. If it was free then we couldnt.

PD: This also can mean that there is not going to be alternate extended (or short) versions of some tracks that had them....

What it said is that they had the complete score master tapes , put it on the disks, then Williams removed some cues

the sensible thing from LLL to do now would be (anonymously) mistakenly drop these cues on the net somehow...

Artistic works are very personal. If you made something and you don't want the public to have it in a certain format, you have every right to deny them that.

It's still perfectly okay as a fan to desire the extra music, unedited cues, etc. But the composer does not have an obligation to provide something that might embarrass or dissatisfy him/her.

If it was in the film....its public...already so everyone knows...

[indy4]

That would be a good way to ensure Williams never cooperates with LLL from now on.

[Luke Skywalker]

That and when he reaches Goldsmith status.




Damn i feel bad now for mentioning that....

(knocks wood, iron and whatever lucky charm)

[SpiritOf77]

That said, I find it strange that some posters are expressing their disappointment in Mr Williams' involvement in this release, and his requests to withhold certain cues. This is his work, after all! As a creative artist, he has every right, I believe, to ask for his work to be presented in a way that reflects his wishes.However much we might want lock, stock and barrel, it's not up to us. We might not agree with his choices, but we have to respect them. Really, after all the years of pleasure he's given us, doesn't he deserve that?

the thing is williams has a 'wicked' sense of humility that makes him embarrased when he revisits his works. He is completely wrong, though...

So, George Lucas is completely entitled to what he does with the SW films, then? Or some 'common good' preservation should be applied?

If he's embarrassed, he's embarrassed. I have to respect that.

Re Mr Lucas and SW - yes, he is entitled to do what he's done, of course, for the same reasons. I don't know how you'd begin to apply a 'common good' preservation - who would decide when it was to be invoked? No, I'm sure it has to be left to the artist.

[Romão]

I for one I'm excited with Williams involvement with this release, as I was with Goldenthal's involvement in the Batman Forever 2 cd set. Williams is a great album producer, IMHO

[KK.]

I for one I'm excited with Williams involvement with this release, as I was with Goldenthal's involvement in the Batman Forever 2 cd set. Williams is a great album producer, IMHO

Agreed. I'm very happy to see Williams involved, so these missing tracks seem like minor quibbles. Folks, we're getting a proper treatment of Hook...something we've been waiting for ages, something we thought would never come! I think we ought to be grateful that Williams is working with this release

[king mark]

"Missing cues" isn't at all a minor quibble when the standards for every other composer releases is complete and chronological scores .Why do we Williams fans always get that shaft of a missed opportunity?:

Sounds like the Indy Box all over again. I bet that's what happened and Williams wanted to include even less music than Laurent Bouzereau managed to put in the set in the end

Williams removing full cues from the complete score is NOT GOOD, no matter how you look at it

[ManofDestiny]

Great. We can wait for ten more years for a true complete re issue.

[wanner251]

So worried about things being 5 cents out of tune. Poor guy... I'd pay double the price for an added 3rd disc. This is one of my Desert Island scores I think.

And Banning Back Home is a fabulous contrast... If he would have scored it completely orchestraly, perhaps the whole rest of the score would have to be Gruisin-esque... ;-P

[king mark]

For the same reason you complain about missing a few seconds from The Matrix, Stargate, and the choir from Star Trek 2009.

That isn't a very good example as that's different. Those complaints are valid as it was actual music from the score itself that was left off those releases. "Take Me Out To The Ball Game" is source music, not the actual damn score.

Trent from what it says Williams has removed actual score cues, not just the source music like Take Me Out to the Ball Game. And your really the last person here who should be lecturing everyone else about accepting a Hook release with incomplete or missing cues.

[Miles Prower]

For the same reason you complain about missing a few seconds from The Matrix, Stargate, and the choir from Star Trek 2009.

That isn't a very good example as that's different. Those complaints are valid as it was actual music from the score itself that was left off those releases. "Take Me Out To The Ball Game" is source music, not the actual damn score.

Trent from what it says Williams has removed actual score cues, not just the source music like Take Me Out to the Ball Game. And your really the last person here who should be lecturing everyone else about accepting a Hook release with incomplete or missing cues.

QFT.

Whatever's removed, we'll live. The world will keep on spinning, and you'll still have 2 CDs of Hook music.

Oh, who am I kidding? It's the soundtrack apocalypse, the worst release ever, LLL should be ashamed of themselves, etc.

[Hlao-roo]

Williams is a f**king a**hole. Who the hell is he to tell us what we should be able to hear?

[king mark]

I was replying to Trent. Whatever cues from the sessions were left left off the set shouldn't be a concern to him at all . The rest of you can think whatever you want.

[Incanus]

Williams' involvement also seems rather haphazard when it comes to his music. Superman, 1941, The Fury, Family Plot etc. were complete and had apparently no input from Williams or even if they had nothing was changed. So why Hook, why Indy scores? Why does the composer feel the need to "rectify" the listening experience of his most expansive, sought-after and popular scores when it comes to the complete releases? This is a mystery of artist's modesty and personal perception of the work. Very understandable on the other hand, quite baffling on the other.

Hook has been one of my favourite Williams scores ever since I first heard it about 13 or 14 years ago. It also has been always on the top of my holy grail release list. When we have gotten such excellent releases from LLL, the most recent 1941, it set the hopes very high for a complete and comprehensive release of Hook. So it is quite natural for one to feel disappointed if some music you love and cherish will not be on the release. Life will go on, no one got killed (I hope) and we have no choice but to honor Williams' decision but we certainly do not have to agree blindly with it.

P.S. I wait with great anticipation what was included on the double CD and I hope Williams nixed only Smee's Plan, From Mermaids to Lost Boys, When You're Alone and Farewell to Neverland from it.

[king mark]

Exactly

What if you learned that Williams was the one who personally didn't want "Fortune and Glory" cue from ToD on the Concord Box. Would you accept more that it wasn't included?

[Maurizio]

Williams' involvement also seems rather haphazard when it comes to his music. Superman, 1941, The Fury, Family Plot etc. were complete and had apparently no input from Williams or even if they had nothing was changed. So why Hook, why Indy scores?

Because he's probably much more sensitive to his work for Spielberg's films and how it's presented on disc (at least for certain titles).

I'm not worried AT ALL about Williams' involvement in this release. Sure, it will not be uber-complete release, but it's likely we'll have two full CDs with plenty of unreleased stuff. What probably is being left off are some alternates and maybe just a few short cues.

[Chaac]

This is good anyway. We have something to listen to until a perfected release later down the road.

[Maurizio]

No matter how you look at it or how you different you feel from others, we all film music fans are a bunch of whiny nerds!

[scallenger]

For this one we are just putting up the cover art and the order button -- that's it.

MV

http://filmscoremont...87049&archive=0

This comment was made before the interview was put up. Not sure if he was joking since there is a wink symbol, I'm sure he was. But if he wasn't I hope he changes his mind now, even though we all know we are all going to buy it either way. We should still know what we are really buying before we get it, and I'd like to know what to expect. Is that wrong? lol.

[Maurizio]

If you don't like how LLL, Sony and Williams are releasing this score, then DON'T BUY IT. It's simple as that.

[Josh500]

If you don't like how LLL, Sony and Williams are releasing this score, then DON'T BUY IT. It's simple as that.

Amen!

Besides, those who complain about it not being complete, it's not like you're gonna regularly listen to every single little cue anyway!

[SF1_freeze]

I think it is perfectly justified to voice a certain degree of dissapointment about the non completeness of the release. But nevertheless i think everyone still is more than happy to finally get most of the unreleased gems from the score.

[Maurizio]

I understand and respect the sentiment of wanting every note and, in case of Williams scores, I'm the first that want to listen to everything. But what I don't understand is the behaviour of some people who feel that they're entitled to eveything and react like they're being robbed. I don't know, the world is full of weird people, but the fact I grew up listening to severly truncated OST albums and learning to love them for what they are taught me that I should welcome with joy and happiness any kind of expansion we're given, no matter how incomplete.

[scallenger]

Didn't I say "we all know we are going to buy it either way"? That included me in that phrase, so that means I am getting this no matter what, since no matter what it will be much better than the OST and any of the boots we currently see out there. All I am asking for is to know what I am getting before I actually pay for it, which LLL does do with all their other releases, so it'd be a shame if they didn't do it with this one. Again, is that so wrong to ask? lol.

[Ricard]

Anybody here speak French? I know a bit, but not enough to decipher a questionable translation. What is the meaning of the word "ton" in the following passage? JWFan translates it as "tune," FreeTranslation.com translates it as "tune," but neither meanings seem quite right.

"Il a fait quelques suggestions, il a demandé que certains morceaux qui étaient répétitifs soient éliminés, il a exclu des morceaux qui n’étaient pas dans le ton comme Take Me Out To The Ballgame… Bref, il a recréé la bande sonore telle qu’on l’entend sur ce double disque."

Could someone provide a more accurate translation? The one I posted on the main page is based on Google's translator.

Thanks.

[Josh500]

I think it is perfectly justified to voice a certain degree of dissapointment about the non completeness of the release. But nevertheless i think everyone still is more than happy to finally get most of the unreleased gems from the score.

Yes, I agree.

To be disappointed is natural, even understandable. Hell, I am too!

But some people here are just greedy and moronic idiots, way out of line and probably dissatisfied about all and everything, all their lives... and not just about some missing cues on an Expanded Soundtrack Album!

[scallenger]

Just because certain people have different expectations of a score's presentation doesn't make us idiots. It's just a preference. Clearly you don't have to agree with it.

[Josh500]

Just because certain people have different expectations of a score's presentation doesn't make us idiots. It's just a preference. Clearly you don't have to agree with it.

Did you read every post here? If yes, you would know what I mean.

And I just wrote that I am disappointed too...

[Chaac]

Could someone provide a more accurate translation? The one I posted on the main page is based on Google's translator.

The translation is good. I just translated it by myself and came to the same thing.

Mourceaux could also be "bits" or "snippets", depending on how optimistic you want the translation. Heheh.

[Josh500]

Do we even have a regular poster from France? All I can think of is Donald Duck (what was his name again? Olivier?)...

[Maurizio]

Anybody here speak French? I know a bit, but not enough to decipher a questionable translation. What is the meaning of the word "ton" in the following passage? JWFan translates it as "tune," FreeTranslation.com translates it as "tune," but neither meanings seem quite right.

"Il a fait quelques suggestions, il a demandé que certains morceaux qui étaient répétitifs soient éliminés, il a exclu des morceaux qui n’étaient pas dans le ton comme Take Me Out To The Ballgame… Bref, il a recréé la bande sonore telle qu’on l’entend sur ce double disque."

Could someone provide a more accurate translation? The one I posted on the main page is based on Google's translator.

Thanks.

"[Williams] made some suggestions and asked that some excerpts that were redundant would be eliminated. He also excluded cues that weren't in tone [with the rest of the score], like Take Me Out to the Ball Game. To make long story short, he made the soundtrack you'll listen on this double disc."

[Josh500]

Ahh hell!

How much music can be missing?

We are getting 2 CDs after all...

[Maurizio]

Didn't I say "we all know we are going to buy it either way"? That included me in that phrase, so that means I am getting this no matter what, since no matter what it will be much better than the OST and any of the boots we currently see out there. All I am asking for is to know what I am getting before I actually pay for it, which LLL does do with all their other releases, so it'd be a shame if they didn't do it with this one. Again, is that so wrong to ask? lol.

I wasn't referring to you directly, sorry. I'm sure LLL will reveal the tracklist with durations before the title will go on sale as they usually do.

[Incanus]

I think we have had this conversation quite a number of times before. I know it is difficult to step into someone else's shoes and try to find validity in the opposite view. I am an adult and can handle disappointments, I know we cannot say we are entitled to anything when it comes to our beloved music (or just about anything in the world) and I know that artists often have varying views on the worth of their own work that can differ radically from the appreciation their fans heap upon it. I also like to think positively and not dwell on the negative. Still I am a tad miffed by the recent news and am afraid that something significant has been nixed from the Hook release. This does not mean that I won't enjoy the expanded release though. Far from it. It is just the pedantic perfectionist in me that says "If you are going to release this music, do it comprehensively and for all time so there is no need for any further releases".

On the other hand the preservationist in me is happy that the music of Hook has been transferred to digital realms from the tapes, rescued and preserved. And then I as a huge fan of the music am a bit sad we won't get to hear all of it. But perhaps the patience we have been adhering to thusfar would be good advice before making too hasty jumps to conclusions and falling into despair until we see what this set truly contains.

[Chaac]

I think we have had this conversation quite a number of times before. I know it is difficult to step into someone else's shoes and try to find validity in the opposite view. I am an adult and can handle disappointments, I know we cannot say we are entitled to anything when it comes to our beloved music (or just about anything in the world) and I know that artists often have varying views on the worth of their own work that can differ radically from the appreciation their fans heap up it. I also like to think positively and not dwell on the negative. Still I am a tad miffed by the recent news and am afraid that something significant has been nixed from the Hook release.

On the other hand the preservationist in me is happy that the music of Hook has been transferred to digital realms from the tapes, rescued and preserved. And then I as a huge fan of the music am a bit sad we won't get to hear all of it. But perhaps the patience we have been adhering to thusfar would be good advice before making too hasty jumps to conclusions and falling into despair until we see what this set truly contains.

Exactly all of this. Tharkûn has spoken.

[Josh500]

I think we have had this conversation quite a number of times before. I know it is difficult to step into someone else's shoes and try to find validity in the opposite view. I am an adult and can handle disappointments, I know we cannot say we are entitled to anything when it comes to our beloved music (or just about anything in the world) and I know that artists often have varying views on the worth of their own work that can differ radically from the appreciation their fans heap up it. I also like to think positively and not dwell on the negative. Still I am a tad miffed by the recent news and am afraid that something significant has been nixed from the Hook release. This does not mean that I won't enjoy the expanded release though. Far from it. It is just the pedantic perfectionist in me that says "If you are going to release this music, do it comprehensively and for all time so there is no need for any further releases".

On the other hand the preservationist in me is happy that the music of Hook has been transferred to digital realms from the tapes, rescued and preserved. And then I as a huge fan of the music am a bit sad we won't get to hear all of it. But perhaps the patience we have been adhering to thusfar would be good advice before making too hasty jumps to conclusions and falling into despair until we see what this set truly contains.

Again, how much music can be missing?

It's a 2-CD release... We are getting (almost) 74 minutes of unreleased music at least!!! People seem to forget that. The Expanded Indiana Jones scores, by comparison, had only 1 CD for each movie, plus a few tracks on the extra bonus CD.

I am all but certain only minor cues and source music are missing...

_____________


Bottom line for me:

I would have preferred a COMPLETE edition, too, of course, but since it is John Williams himself who didn't want some cues included, for whatever reason, I accept his wishes. (Same like Spielberg refusing some scenes to be included in the Deleted Scenes section of the DVD, and nobody complains about that!) If it had been anybody else, then I would have been mad as hell, no question about that!