636 replies to this topic

[king mark]

ah, that was my first theory

[Luke Skywalker]

Is it me or is the single best track on the LLL CD the film version of Banning Back Home?

(Ultimate War isn't a contendor considering its disastrous presentation)

shame its a film stem. It does not sound as clear and good as the album version.

[Joe Brausam]

The sound of "The Ultimate War" doesn't bother me, even the volume dips aren't terrible, it's just the loops that bug me. But it's easy to look past, at least for me.

[Goldfingers]

On the 11 june 1991, John Williams was on Hook's sets.

[MissPadmé]

"Low Below"!! How cool is that?

[Miles Prower]

Heh, and he jotted down Low Below too. That's cute.

[Luke Skywalker]

Goldfingers... are you from Lalaland?

Because your avatar is exactly the same 'poster-edit' as the oficial release but made to the alternate struzan poster, as if it was an alternate possible cover.

Anyone could replicate it... but the editing looks as good as the official product.


BTW i also used that poster for mi itunes but the full sheet.

[MissPadmé]

I guess, that's what he gave to the orchestrator, who then constructed "Presenting the Hook" out of it

[Luke Skywalker]

of course!

[Josh500]

So I got my EXPANDED HOOK yesterday, and I immediately put on the album and listened to the new material several times. And I gotta say, I am slightly underwhelmed. I think I was expecting more . . . maybe too much. But then I am not sure why. Most of the highlights are already on the OS album, I've found. Sure, having these little atmospheric cues like "The Nursery," "The Watch," "The Bedroom" etc. is nice, but are these really must-haves? And the complete "Ultimate War"--while also nice to have, of course--is not something I will find myself listening to very often, I think. It's just too chaotic, too bombastic, too directionless, and too uneven an action cue, at least for my taste. (Maybe I will change my mind on this later, once I've listened to it several dozen times.) The tracks I am enjoying the most right now are "Pirates," "Hook Challenges Peter," and "End Credits." (And maybe the film version of "Banning.")

Come to think of it, I was more impressed with the Indy Concord set. Consider: back then we got the complete "Indy's Very First Adventure," "The Boat Scene," "On the Tank," "Alarm!," "Indy Negotiates," "Approaching the Stones," and "Map/Out of Fuel"! And in the case of LC at least, in perfect sound quality!

That said, I am still very happy with this release of "Hook," of course. Wouldn't have missed it for the world!

[Goldfingers]

Goldfingers... are you from Lalaland?

No, i replicated the cover with the Struzan's concept art.

"Low Below"!! How cool is that?

This was certainly the day they filmed "Low Below" because Vincent Paterson (the choreographer) signed the same day...

[Trent Bennett]

The complete "Ultimate War"--while also nice to have, of course--is not something I will find myself listening to very often, I think. It's just too chaotic, too bombastic, too directionless, and too uneven an action cue, at least for my taste.

So do you think the same way with "The Battle Of Yavin" and "The Battle Of Hoth"?

[Chaac]

Sure, having these little atmospheric cues like "The Nursery," "The Watch," "The Bedroom" etc. are nice, but are these really must-haves?

These cues are what make the score at first. It plays like a 140ish long track, growing from these to the climax.

Actually when I listened to the score, it was these kind of little subdued cues that glued the thing a bit for me.

[Miles Prower]

So I got my EXPANDED HOOK yesterday, and I immediately put on the album and listened to the new material several times. And I gotta say, I am slightly underwhelmed. I think I was expecting more . . . maybe too much. But then I am not sure why. Most of the highlights are already on the OS album, I've found. Sure, having these little atmospheric cues like "The Nursery," "The Watch," "The Bedroom" etc. are nice, but are these really must-haves? And the complete "Ultimate War"--while also nice to have, of course--is not something I will find myself listening to very often, I think. It's just too chaotic, too bombastic, too directionless, and too uneven an action cue, at least for my taste. (Maybe I will change my mind on this later, once I've listened to it several dozen times.) The tracks I am enjoying the most right now are "Pirates," "Hook Challenges Peter," and "End Credits." (And maybe the film version of "Banning.")

Come to think of it, I was more impressed with the Indy Concord set. Consider: back then we got the complete "Indy's Very First Adventure," "The Boat Scene," "On the Tank," "Alarm!," "Indy Negotiates," "Approaching the Stones," and "Map/Out of Fuel"! And in the case of LC at least, in perfect sound quality!

That said, I am still very happy with this release of "Hook," of course. Wouldn't have missed it for the world!

So... not all it's cracked up to be?

[Luke Skywalker]

Goldfingers... are you from Lalaland?

No, i replicated the cover with the Struzan's concept art.

awesome editing then

[Josh500]

The complete "Ultimate War"--while also nice to have, of course--is not something I will find myself listening to very often, I think. It's just too chaotic, too bombastic, too directionless, and too uneven an action cue, at least for my taste.

So do you think the same way with "The Battle Of Yavin" and "The Battle Of Hoth"?

To be perfectly honest, I kinda do. I don't listen to these long action tracks from the original Star Wars trilogy very often. It's nice to have them, sure, but that's it.

On the other hand, I very much enjoy everything from Indiana Jones and the Star Wars prequels (which somehow don't seem as chaotic and bombastic but instead more focused)...

So... not all it's cracked up to be?

Sure, having these little atmospheric cues like "The Nursery," "The Watch," "The Bedroom" etc. are nice, but are these really must-haves?

These cues are what make the score at first. It plays like a 140ish long track, growing from these to the climax.

Actually when I listened to the score, it was these kind of little subdued cues that glued the thing a bit for me.

Well, yeah, but IMO what we already had on the OS album (tracks lile Hook-Napped, Granny Wendy, and The Arrival of Tink/Flight to Neverland etc.) included all those subtle cues. The new stuff we got now struck me as only slight variations of these.

On the other hand, I find myself enjoying "Hook's Madness" very much. A distant cousin of "Forward to Time Past," perhaps?

[Incanus]

The complete "Ultimate War"--while also nice to have, of course--is not something I will find myself listening to very often, I think. It's just too chaotic, too bombastic, too directionless, and too uneven an action cue, at least for my taste.

So do you think the same way with "The Battle Of Yavin" and "The Battle Of Hoth"?

To be perfectly honest, I kinda do. I don't listen to these long action tracks from the original Star Wars trilogy very often. It's nice to have them, sure, but that's it.

On the other hand, I very much enjoy everything from Indiana Jones and the Star Wars prequels (which somehow don't seem as chaotic and bombastic but instead more focused)...

Oh-o. I am just waiting for someone to open a big can of whoop-ass on your for saying that. Now I just sit back, wait and watch.

[Josh500]

Oh-o. I am just waiting for someone to open a big can of whoop-ass on your for saying that. Now I just sit back, wait and watch.

So? What's your point? That's what I think.

Don't you have an opinion of your own on this?

[Incanus]

I am just amazed how you can call something like The Battle of Yavin, a masterpiece of lean and almost economically constructed action music, chaotic and directionless when it is one of the most focused pieces of action music I have ever heard.

And I grant you that The Ultimate War is without a doubt one of the most rambuctious and balletic of Williams' leitmotific action set pieces and it is dazzling with decorative detail and intricacy of swashbuckling style but it is never directionless, every gesture having its purpose, every theme dancing through the piece precisely at the right moment. It does not have that quite familiar technique from say Indiana Jones film where an action motif or idea would propel the entire piece throughout and some themes might cameo along the way. The Ultimate War is the ultimate thematic ballet.

[KK.]

What I don't understand Josh is that you dislike the big action cues from Star Wars because they're too chaotic for you while you seem to be ok with the action in the SW prequels when they're clearly far more denser, complicated and chaotic. The Battle of Yavin and The Battle of Hoth are far more focused action pieces than the stuff in the prequels (regardless of how awesome they are).

And as Incanus pointed out, the amazing detail in The Ultimate War and the great ballet approach that Williams took with it makes it one of my favourite action cues ever.

[Richard Penna]

The Ultimate War does switch from idea to idea a bit, but it's cohesive in what it's trying to achieve. It's become one of my favourite Williams action sequences too.

I'd say that Clash of the Cranes is the worst recent offender for me, in terms of jumping from idea to idea with nothing holding it together. I've noticed that in Williams' weaker action pieces, he tends to jump between marching strings or brass hits, with plenty of booommmm-tsh and really not a whole lot else.

[Faleel]

So josh, you think they are to Jerky?

[Pasi Tiitinen]

I just love "Exit Music" from the bonus tracks. Listened to it first time now with this release, I think it's gorgeous.

[Luke Skywalker]

woa, that's been arround for years.


But it must have been awesome to hear the first time in pristine condition

[Chaac]

I also like that exit music, I was geniunely surprised by bits like that through the score.

[Incanus]

I just love "Exit Music" from the bonus tracks. Listened to it first time now with this release, I think it's gorgeous.

It is a gorgeous piece indeed. Hearing it for the first time on this set must have been such a delightful surprise. But I can't deny that hearing it in pristine quality after listening to the bootleg for years was equally pleasing. I am truly glad they had the chance to include it on the set.


And has it been mentioned that the list of performers for this score is available on the LLL site?
http://www.lalalandr...s.com/Hook.html

EDIT: Oh, Angela Morley worked on Hook!

[Maurizio]

The Ultimate War is the ultimate thematic ballet.

[Luke Skywalker]

EDIT: Oh, Angela Morley worked on Hook!

now i know why some cues and source music were left out of the release ....

[Josh500]

I am just amazed how you can call something like The Battle of Yavin, a masterpiece of lean and almost economically constructed action music, chaotic and directionless when it is one of the most focused pieces of action music I have ever heard.

And I grant you that The Ultimate War is without a doubt one of the most rambuctious and balletic of Williams' leitmotific action set pieces and it is dazzling with decorative detail and intricacy of swashbuckling style but it is never directionless, every gesture having its purpose, every theme dancing through the piece precisely at the right moment. It does not have that quite familiar technique from say Indiana Jones film where an action motif or idea would propel the entire piece throughout and some themes might cameo along the way. The Ultimate War is the ultimate thematic ballet.

Okay, maybe directionless is the wrong word.

I meant that in some of these long action tracks, the whole cue seems to consist (not entirely but primarily) of going from one theme to the next, depending on which character happens to be onscreen. There isn't much that accompanies and supports the action onscreen, but rather it's mostly about telling us which character is onscreen. And there's not much to connect these themes, either.

His later action cues seem to focus more on the action, and its deep meanings within the context of any given scene or even the whole movie, rather than on characters. Sure, character themes appear here and there too, but JW seems to be much better at musically illustrating the action, feelings, nuances onscreen at the same time. In some of the original Star Wars action cues, I don't feel that, or at least not as much. Strangely enough, Indiana Jones never had that "problem" for me, even in "Desert Chase" or some of the more elaborate action tracks of ToD.

But let me clarify, in no way am I putting down the Star Wars or Hook action tracks, of course. I personally prefer the other style, that's all.

What I don't understand Josh is that you dislike the big action cues from Star Wars because they're too chaotic for you while you seem to be ok with the action in the SW prequels when they're clearly far more denser, complicated and chaotic. The Battle of Yavin and The Battle of Hoth are far more focused action pieces than the stuff in the prequels (regardless of how awesome they are).

And as Incanus pointed out, the amazing detail in The Ultimate War and the great ballet approach that Williams took with it makes it one of my favourite action cues ever.

Yeah, I'll have to listen to UW a couple more times... and maybe watch the movie a couple more times, as well.

But my first impression upon listening to it was, oh dear God. One theme after another, going on and on, in a chaotic, bombastic, and nonsensical way (nonsencial if you don't know the movie by heart, that is). It didn't seem to make much sense, musically.

[Delorean90]

So, leitmotiv in general is a problem for you? I've never really had any issue with the musicality of Williams's use of themes in action cues--at least, not in some of the cues that are being brought up.

[Josh500]

So, leitmotiv in general is a problem for you? I've never really had any issue with the musicality of Williams's use of themes in action cues--at least, not in some of the cues that are being brought up.

Well, it's not really a problem, but I just prefer the later action cues, insomuch as they seem more balanced as regards leitmotifs and the bona fide action scoring.

[Luke Skywalker]

i think you got it all wrong here, josh.

The cool things about Williams action pieces is how thematically intertwined they are.

His modern scores differ in this matter in some cues, and while cool, they loose 'something'. he still does it 'old fashioned way' sometimes.

Jungle chase and pursuit o the falcon though are two examples to leitmotivistic modern action cues, and for that they shine amongst the other recent works.

[Josh500]

i think you got it all wrong here, josh.

The cool things about Williams action pieces is how thematically intertwined they are.

His modern scores differ in this matter in some cues, and while cool, they loose 'something'. he still does it 'old fashioned way' sometimes.

Jungle chase and pursuit o the falcon though are two examples to leitmotivistic modern action cues, and for that they shine amongst the other recent works.

No.

And there is no wrong or right here, dude.

Reread what I wrote carefully.

[JamieC]

Good form, La La Land. My Hook cd arrived today.

Talk about a time machine back to twenty years ago and the very different world of movie hype ahead of a big movie's release. Those were the days...

[Faleel]

I noticed a (very minor) mistake in the liner notes, in Schweigers credits sunday times has one letter unbolded, like this:

sunday times

[Josh500]

Good form, La La Land. My Hook cd arrived today.

Talk about a time machine back to twenty years ago and the very different world of movie hype ahead of a big movie's release. Those were the days...

Congrats and enjoy!

And btw, where are you located? Europe?

I noticed a (very minor) mistake in the liner notes, in Schweigers credits sunday times has one letter unbolded, like this:

sunday times

If that was the only flaw, I'd be over the moon!

[gkgyver]

I got my copy yesterday.

Listened to the first half of the first disc.
Not yet sure what to think of the score. Fantastic, no doubt, but the constant raving about the awesomeness of this score might have raised my anticipation a bit too high.

Much like it was with ET for me.

[Faleel]

Gkgyver, the first half of the first disc, while good, is not the best part of the score, so, I'll let you get off easy.




for now...

[gkgyver]

Hah, I get your intention ....

It's probably like saying the first disc of the Fellowship Of The Ring CR has little thematic variation.

[Trent Bennett]

I don't feel like reading back a few pages but did you guys catch this "review"?

http://filmscoremont...mID=1&archive=0

Personally this one is a major insult to La-La Land and those who worked on this set. Now grant saying the remaining "Ultimate War" pieces don't sound great but the entire set? Come on now...some people are just idiots.