I would love to have them all
La-La Land Records' HOOK (2CD Expanded) Discussion thread
Started by Jason LeBlanc, Mar 28 2012 07:56 PM
La-La Land Hook
636 replies to this topic
#81
Jason LeBlanc
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Posted 29 March 2012 - 03:07 PM
-Jay
#82
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Posted 29 March 2012 - 03:08 PM
I am sure everybody here would love to have everything from Hook if it was possible.I would love to have them all
Ars superior est vita hominum.
"We pop out and come into the world and music is there. We didn't invent it - it's all organised in the atmosphere by divinity or whatever. It's a miracle." - John Williams-
I think music is a stream of some kind. It could be blood. It could be water. It could be ether. Whatever it is it seems to be a living, organic force that’s in motion, that serves humanity and is part of humanity and part of what describes us as humans. We sing, play, dance, all the things that we do. And there is a vibrant and great literature we have been given. ... As musicians, we join the stream. We swim in the stream with all the other millions of music makers. It’s a life force, a strong one, surrounding us and we are part of it. -John Williams-
#83
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Posted 29 March 2012 - 03:46 PM
I can't believe we literally have an almost complete Hook, and people are bitching. It's almost unbelievable to me. Seriously, if only film stems are available, what can LLL do about it?
And i can't believe grown men cannot grasp that a well-reasoned disappointment over lost master tapes for the most important set piece is not a court-martial for the label releasing film stems. It just sucks, however you look at it. Period.
You wouldn't see a subtle plan if it painted itself purple and danced naked on top of a harpsichord, singing "Subtle Plans Are Here Again."
#84
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Posted 29 March 2012 - 03:49 PM
Of course. We aren't bitching about releases and the labels. We are bitching about film and music conservation. LLL is complaining too. After all they're just like us, but with a label.
Chaac, Captain Obvious!
Chaac, Captain Obvious!
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#85
rolltide1017
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Posted 29 March 2012 - 03:55 PM
So, if one wants to put the tracks in chronological order (or as close to as possible) without doing any editing, which tracks need to be moved around and to where?
#86
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Posted 29 March 2012 - 04:38 PM
If you don't want to do any in-track editing, all you gotta do is swap Wendy Tells Peter The Truth with A Portrait Of Wendy, move Hook's Blues to before Smee's Plan, and move When You're Alone to after The Never-Feast.
-Jay
#87
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Posted 29 March 2012 - 05:05 PM
What about "Exit Music"?
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#88
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Posted 29 March 2012 - 05:05 PM
What about it?
-Jay
#89
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Posted 29 March 2012 - 05:06 PM
It should go after End Credits. It was originally the final part of the End Credits until it got replaced by material edited from other parts of the score.What about "Exit Music"?
Ars superior est vita hominum.
"We pop out and come into the world and music is there. We didn't invent it - it's all organised in the atmosphere by divinity or whatever. It's a miracle." - John Williams-
I think music is a stream of some kind. It could be blood. It could be water. It could be ether. Whatever it is it seems to be a living, organic force that’s in motion, that serves humanity and is part of humanity and part of what describes us as humans. We sing, play, dance, all the things that we do. And there is a vibrant and great literature we have been given. ... As musicians, we join the stream. We swim in the stream with all the other millions of music makers. It’s a life force, a strong one, surrounding us and we are part of it. -John Williams-
#90
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Posted 29 March 2012 - 05:07 PM
Aaah ok. I had imagined it would got before or after the credits.
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#91
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Posted 29 March 2012 - 05:12 PM
William's original intended end credit arrangement is:
"End Credit" -> Lost Boys Ballet (with a separetely recorded segment to end the cue early) -> "Exit Music"
In the final film, they replaced his intentions with:
"End Credit" -> Lost Boys Ballet (microedited and with the pick-up ending) -> segment tracked from "The Arrival Of Tink" -> segment tracked from "Farewell Neverland"
Since the question was about re-arranging without doing in-track editing, there was no reason for me to mention Exit Music. The listener can place it wherever he desires
"End Credit" -> Lost Boys Ballet (with a separetely recorded segment to end the cue early) -> "Exit Music"
In the final film, they replaced his intentions with:
"End Credit" -> Lost Boys Ballet (microedited and with the pick-up ending) -> segment tracked from "The Arrival Of Tink" -> segment tracked from "Farewell Neverland"
Since the question was about re-arranging without doing in-track editing, there was no reason for me to mention Exit Music. The listener can place it wherever he desires
-Jay
#92
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Posted 29 March 2012 - 05:15 PM
True. In my opinion the LLL set has the Exit Music well placed to close the entire experience at the end of disc 2.William's original intended end credit arrangement is:
"End Credit" -> Lost Boys Ballet (with a separetely recorded segment to end the cue early) -> "Exit Music"
In the final film, they replaced his intentions with:
"End Credit" -> Lost Boys Ballet (microedited and with the pick-up ending) -> segment tracked from "The Arrival Of Tink" -> segment tracked from "Farewell Neverland"
Since the question was about re-arranging without doing in-track editing, there was no reason for me to mention Exit Music. The listener can place it wherever he desires
Ars superior est vita hominum.
"We pop out and come into the world and music is there. We didn't invent it - it's all organised in the atmosphere by divinity or whatever. It's a miracle." - John Williams-
I think music is a stream of some kind. It could be blood. It could be water. It could be ether. Whatever it is it seems to be a living, organic force that’s in motion, that serves humanity and is part of humanity and part of what describes us as humans. We sing, play, dance, all the things that we do. And there is a vibrant and great literature we have been given. ... As musicians, we join the stream. We swim in the stream with all the other millions of music makers. It’s a life force, a strong one, surrounding us and we are part of it. -John Williams-
#93
Jason LeBlanc
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Posted 29 March 2012 - 05:19 PM
Yea, if they weren't going to duplicate Williams intentions and drop the film's hack job end credits entirely, ending the entire set with it is absolutely perfect!
They picked a glorious take of the piece as well, even better than the take used on the old boots
They picked a glorious take of the piece as well, even better than the take used on the old boots
-Jay
#94
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Posted 29 March 2012 - 05:22 PM
I disagree with the term 'hack job', it's actually a fairly well-assembled suite. Now, Star Trek: Nemesis, THAT's a hack job. 
Ok, question regarding what you said earlier - in the LLL take of 'Wendy Tells Peter The Truth', there's a cough that the film take doesn't have. Was that take unavailable, or what?
Ok, question regarding what you said earlier - in the LLL take of 'Wendy Tells Peter The Truth', there's a cough that the film take doesn't have. Was that take unavailable, or what?
#95
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Posted 29 March 2012 - 05:25 PM
Thanks Jason. I might bore you with such questions in two weeks but you must be happy that this music that you obviously like so much has been released like this so we can bore you with questions 
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#96
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Posted 29 March 2012 - 05:27 PM
I disagree with the term 'hack job', it's actually a fairly well-assembled suite. Now, Star Trek: Nemesis, THAT's a hack job.
True, it is a rather nice assembly. I shouldn't have said hack-job, I mean for all we know Williams oversaw and approved it! I just meant that it was editorially created by using existing music, rather than recording something new.
Ok, question regarding what you said earlier - in the LLL take of 'Wendy Tells Peter The Truth', there's a cough that the film take doesn't have. Was that take unavailable, or what?
Beats me
-Jay
#97
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Posted 29 March 2012 - 05:43 PM
So the End Credits track in the LLL CD follows the film? Seems easily fixable. The LLL track might make a nice "edited suite" at the end of my secondary playlist.
Damn, I promised myself not to think on this until I had it. Ah, the wait...
Damn, I promised myself not to think on this until I had it. Ah, the wait...
Izena duen guztia omen da.
#98
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Posted 29 March 2012 - 05:46 PM
Thanks Jason. I might bore you with such questions in two weeks but you must be happy that this music that you obviously like so much has been released like this so we can bore you with questions
I don't mind answering questions about my favorite score
-Jay
#99
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Posted 29 March 2012 - 05:51 PM
here is the edit of Ultimate War Part 1 I was talking about:
Among all the things I have done in my short and pitiful life, becoming an inside joke on JWFAN is the one I'm the least proud of.
#100
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Posted 29 March 2012 - 08:03 PM
Damn, I promised myself not to think on this until I had it. Ah, the wait...
The wait is already killing me...
"It's still baffling to me. I sit down with a pencil and a piece of paper and do my best... The remarkable thing is that my music is heard by billions of people." --John Williams
"Let me say, however, there is no "next" John Williams. Sadly, he is unique--- a figure who simultaneously embodies and transcends the music of all the masters of film music who preceded him (much like Brahms and Wagner of the Romantic era). He comes from a time when the craft of music in film was still one of the ear, heart and mind. Today, sadly, the craft is largely technical. Most composers do not conceive their music "inwardly" but rather at the computer--- and with rather limited skills, musically, at that. The inner spirit knows no boundaries--- our plastic abilities, sadly, do. John is a man of spirit, heart, intellect and soaring music." -- Conrad Pope about John Williams
"Let me say, however, there is no "next" John Williams. Sadly, he is unique--- a figure who simultaneously embodies and transcends the music of all the masters of film music who preceded him (much like Brahms and Wagner of the Romantic era). He comes from a time when the craft of music in film was still one of the ear, heart and mind. Today, sadly, the craft is largely technical. Most composers do not conceive their music "inwardly" but rather at the computer--- and with rather limited skills, musically, at that. The inner spirit knows no boundaries--- our plastic abilities, sadly, do. John is a man of spirit, heart, intellect and soaring music." -- Conrad Pope about John Williams
#101
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Posted 29 March 2012 - 09:56 PM
Another sample from Ultimate War 3 where the sound gets iffy.... At 0:08 the volume slowly starts to fade down too much until 0:11-0:12 where its pretty noticeable that its too low for whats going on and then the volume jumps back up.
http://www.peeje.com...Sample.mp3.html
http://www.peeje.com...Sample.mp3.html
#102
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Posted 29 March 2012 - 10:02 PM
It's funny to me that they actually mention the pitch of the prologue in the liner notes: "...this presentation plays at a slightly slower speed (and lower pitch) than the music heard in the actual teaser."
Interesting.
Oops - I missed where that was already mentioned. Carry on...
Interesting.
Oops - I missed where that was already mentioned. Carry on...
#103
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Posted 29 March 2012 - 10:07 PM
But that's referring to the Prologue in thr OST I think.
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#104
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Posted 29 March 2012 - 10:09 PM
Only the alternate version is faster.
#105
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Posted 29 March 2012 - 10:15 PM
The alternate version is 1:35, the normal version is 1:30.
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1. Nightwatch/Killer By Night - Johnny Williams and Quincy Jones 2. Diamond Head/Gone with the Wave - Johnny Williams/Lalo Schifrin 3. Mass - Leonard Bernstein 4. Bernstein with the New York Philharmonic - Leonard Bernstein
1. Nightwatch/Killer By Night - Johnny Williams and Quincy Jones 2. Diamond Head/Gone with the Wave - Johnny Williams/Lalo Schifrin 3. Mass - Leonard Bernstein 4. Bernstein with the New York Philharmonic - Leonard Bernstein
#106
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Posted 29 March 2012 - 11:49 PM
This go-round, I'm noticing how closely in style much of Hook is related to Last Crusade. The similarities to Home Alone have always been obvious to me, but I'm hearing a lot of LC mannerisms today (which is awesome).
#107
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Posted 30 March 2012 - 12:42 AM
Quick question: Is Rufio's theme included?
Do you like John Williams? His early work was a little too jazzy for my taste, but when Jaws came out in '75 I really think he came into his own, commercially and artistically. The whole album has a clear, crisp sound, and an air of consummate professionalism that really gives the pieces a big boost. He's been compared to Jerry Goldsmith but I think John has a far more leitmotif-driven style of composing. In '82 John composed this, E.T., his most accomplished album to date. I think his undisputed masterpiece is "The Magic of Halloween", a theme so catchy most people don't listen to what it means. But they should, because it's not just about the pleasures of childhood and the importance of friendship, it's also a personal statement about the man himself. Hey Paul!
- Patrick Bateman on the Maestro
- Patrick Bateman on the Maestro
#108
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Posted 30 March 2012 - 01:29 AM
Quick question: Is Rufio's theme included?
Yup in the From Mermaids To Lost Boys track, just like the Concorde boot
The only thing that was on the old boots that isnt here is the Never-Feast insert
-Jay
#109
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Posted 30 March 2012 - 01:38 AM
So with what is on the CD, it is fairly easy to reconstruct Williams's original intentions for the End Credits?
#110
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Posted 30 March 2012 - 01:46 AM
What about the orchestral music at the end of "Never Feast Second Unused Long Version" that's used instead of the When your Alone song (on the concorde boot)
#111
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Posted 30 March 2012 - 02:07 AM
I believe that would be the "Believe Your Eyes" cue that is restored to its original place at the end of "Smee's Plan."
#112
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Posted 30 March 2012 - 02:08 AM
ah, phew
#113
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Posted 30 March 2012 - 04:25 AM
Trent in Utah received his copy today, pretty speedy shipping.
So Trent what do you think of the packaging, artwork, etc?
So Trent what do you think of the packaging, artwork, etc?
-Jay
#114
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Posted 30 March 2012 - 04:26 AM
Yeah any comments on art and liner notes?Trent in Utah received his copy today, pretty speedy shipping.
So Trent what do you think of the packaging, artwork, etc?
Ars superior est vita hominum.
"We pop out and come into the world and music is there. We didn't invent it - it's all organised in the atmosphere by divinity or whatever. It's a miracle." - John Williams-
I think music is a stream of some kind. It could be blood. It could be water. It could be ether. Whatever it is it seems to be a living, organic force that’s in motion, that serves humanity and is part of humanity and part of what describes us as humans. We sing, play, dance, all the things that we do. And there is a vibrant and great literature we have been given. ... As musicians, we join the stream. We swim in the stream with all the other millions of music makers. It’s a life force, a strong one, surrounding us and we are part of it. -John Williams-
#115
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Posted 30 March 2012 - 04:30 AM
So with what is on the CD, it is fairly easy to reconstruct Williams's original intentions for the End Credits?
Seems to be. I'm certainly going to try.
How the hell did Trent get his so quickly? I'm in the same state as LLL and I didn't get it! *mock-anger*
#116
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Posted 30 March 2012 - 05:04 AM
This go-round, I'm noticing how closely in style much of Hook is related to Last Crusade. The similarities to Home Alone have always been obvious to me, but I'm hearing a lot of LC mannerisms today (which is awesome).
You're right; there's a lot of stylistic overlap, almost as though Williams had the same mischievous gleam in his eye as he penned each score.
And you just gotta love that lush, generous melodicism that pervades his work circa 1989-1993.
I can't believe we literally have an almost complete Hook, and people are bitching. It's almost unbelievable to me. Seriously, if only film stems are available, what can LLL do about it?
And i can't believe grown men cannot grasp that a well-reasoned disappointment over lost master tapes for the most important set piece is not a court-martial for the label releasing film stems. It just sucks, however you look at it. Period.
Tout est pour le mieux dans le meilleur des mondes.
#117
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Posted 30 March 2012 - 05:06 AM
Trent in Utah received his copy today, pretty speedy shipping.
So Trent what do you think of the packaging, artwork, etc?
The packaging is beautiful. Jim Titus' artwork is stellar as always.
The back tray is the image that was used for the OST, while the front cover we know what it looks like. The inside back tray is a picture of Smee from the "Ultimate War" portion when he's saying, "Time for....Smee", smiles and starts putting Hook's treasures and gold down his pants. The picture on Disc 1 is of Peter (in the Pan outfit) and Disc 2 is the picture of Hook. The liner notes are very well done, similar to a track by track analysis that Jeff Bond has done for the expanded Star Trek releases.
The overall quality too for the score is pretty good, except for the unreleased Ultimate War segments. As we know the original elements for that unreleased portion could NOT be located. However, it's better than not having them at all. I'm sort of disappointed that the cues from the OST were retained for this set, especially for "We Don't Wanna Grow Up". I was hoping that would have been pulled from the film stems and added on as a bonus track, similar for the film version for "Banning Back Home".
Honestly, I was expecting this to show up by either tomorrow (Friday) or Saturday. I was pleasantly surprised to see it sitting in the mailbox when I checked the mail this evening after getting home.
If anyone wants any pictures of the whole packaging details I'll be happy to take some pictures tomorrow.
"Let's make sure history never forgets the name......Enterprise." - Captain Picard
#118
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Posted 30 March 2012 - 05:14 AM
Definitely. It is amazing how effortless and joyous Hook, TLC and other works around that period sound.
This go-round, I'm noticing how closely in style much of Hook is related to Last Crusade. The similarities to Home Alone have always been obvious to me, but I'm hearing a lot of LC mannerisms today (which is awesome).
You're right; there's a lot of stylistic overlap, almost as though Williams had the same mischievous gleam in his eye as he penned each score.
And you just gotta love that lush, generous melodicism that pervades his work circa 1989-1993.
Ars superior est vita hominum.
"We pop out and come into the world and music is there. We didn't invent it - it's all organised in the atmosphere by divinity or whatever. It's a miracle." - John Williams-
I think music is a stream of some kind. It could be blood. It could be water. It could be ether. Whatever it is it seems to be a living, organic force that’s in motion, that serves humanity and is part of humanity and part of what describes us as humans. We sing, play, dance, all the things that we do. And there is a vibrant and great literature we have been given. ... As musicians, we join the stream. We swim in the stream with all the other millions of music makers. It’s a life force, a strong one, surrounding us and we are part of it. -John Williams-
#119
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Posted 30 March 2012 - 12:54 PM
Listening to the samples again....
The Ultimate War sounds much better than the old rips! its a revelation!
And its great to finally have "Hooks Madness"/"The Clock Museum" in clear quality!
The Ultimate War sounds much better than the old rips! its a revelation!
And its great to finally have "Hooks Madness"/"The Clock Museum" in clear quality!
Among all the things I have done in my short and pitiful life, becoming an inside joke on JWFAN is the one I'm the least proud of.
#120
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Posted 30 March 2012 - 12:56 PM
The Ultimate War sounds much better than the old rips! its a revelation!
And its great to finally have "Hooks Madness"/"The Clock Museum" in clear quality!
You already have the album?
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