Film music doesn't get much better than these two ridiculous JW finales. BUT..which one is better?
The alien gets my vote....but only just barely.
The Ultimate War or Adventures on Earth
Started by Demondm810, Apr 04 2012 09:19 PM
50 replies to this topic
#1
Demondm810
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Posted 04 April 2012 - 09:20 PM
#2
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Posted 04 April 2012 - 09:21 PM
The Land Race...Oh wait.....
Among all the things I have done in my short and pitiful life, becoming an inside joke on JWFAN is the one I'm the least proud of.
#3
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Posted 04 April 2012 - 09:24 PM
Adventures on Earth is far...far better. It is about 200 times more emotional.
I love The Ultimate War, but it is mostly just action, action, action.
Adventures on Earth is THE John Williams piece.
I love The Ultimate War, but it is mostly just action, action, action.
Adventures on Earth is THE John Williams piece.
#4
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Posted 04 April 2012 - 09:28 PM
adventures on earth, without a single doubt.
#5
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Posted 04 April 2012 - 09:51 PM
Adventures on Earth is far...far better. It is about 200 times more emotional.
I love The Ultimate War, but it is mostly just action, action, action.
Adventures on Earth is THE John Williams piece.
Yeah, that.
#6
ckappes
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Posted 04 April 2012 - 10:11 PM
Of course Adventures on Earth.
„It’s still baffling to me. I sit down with a pencil and a piece of paper and do my best... The remarkable thing is that my music is heard by billions of people.”
- John Williams
#7
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Posted 04 April 2012 - 10:20 PM
Little doubt about it, easily Adventures on Earth. That piece is true Williams magic.
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#8
Richard Penna
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Posted 04 April 2012 - 10:26 PM
I'll go against the grain: The Ultimate War
It's just so much damn fun, and when the flying motif comes in during the first part, I find it really emotional for some reason.
It's just so much damn fun, and when the flying motif comes in during the first part, I find it really emotional for some reason.
#9
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Posted 04 April 2012 - 10:54 PM
Adventures on Earth is almost a religious experience.
@Wojo: stop being facetious.
#10
Red Rabbit
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Posted 04 April 2012 - 10:59 PM
It's not really apt to compare the two. "The Ultimate War" isn't a finale piece, it's an action one.
Do you like John Williams? His early work was a little too jazzy for my taste, but when Jaws came out in '75 I really think he came into his own, commercially and artistically. The whole album has a clear, crisp sound, and an air of consummate professionalism that really gives the pieces a big boost. He's been compared to Jerry Goldsmith but I think John has a far more leitmotif-driven style of composing. In '82 John composed this, E.T., his most accomplished album to date. I think his undisputed masterpiece is "The Magic of Halloween", a theme so catchy most people don't listen to what it means. But they should, because it's not just about the pleasures of childhood and the importance of friendship, it's also a personal statement about the man himself. Hey Paul!
- Patrick Bateman on the Maestro
- Patrick Bateman on the Maestro
#11
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Posted 04 April 2012 - 11:02 PM
It's a pretty unfair match. Perhaps the finale from CLOSE ENCOUNTERS would be a more equal contender to E.T. Or other setpieces that aren't necessarily finales (like the Helicopter music from JURASSIC PARK or the Luke/Vader duel or something).
#12
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Posted 04 April 2012 - 11:03 PM
well, the first half is an action track...
Among all the things I have done in my short and pitiful life, becoming an inside joke on JWFAN is the one I'm the least proud of.
#13
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Posted 04 April 2012 - 11:15 PM
It's a pretty unfair match. Perhaps the finale from CLOSE ENCOUNTERS would be a more equal contender to E.T. Or other setpieces that aren't necessarily finales (like the Helicopter music from JURASSIC PARK or the Luke/Vader duel or something).
If I were to compare "Adventures on Earth" with a piece from Hook it would either be "Farewell Neverland" or "Remembering Childhood".
Do you like John Williams? His early work was a little too jazzy for my taste, but when Jaws came out in '75 I really think he came into his own, commercially and artistically. The whole album has a clear, crisp sound, and an air of consummate professionalism that really gives the pieces a big boost. He's been compared to Jerry Goldsmith but I think John has a far more leitmotif-driven style of composing. In '82 John composed this, E.T., his most accomplished album to date. I think his undisputed masterpiece is "The Magic of Halloween", a theme so catchy most people don't listen to what it means. But they should, because it's not just about the pleasures of childhood and the importance of friendship, it's also a personal statement about the man himself. Hey Paul!
- Patrick Bateman on the Maestro
- Patrick Bateman on the Maestro
#14
gkgyver
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Posted 04 April 2012 - 11:19 PM
But none of the pieces mentioned beats the Close Encounters finale. Williams has yet to do a piece that works better on any thinkable level.
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#15
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Posted 05 April 2012 - 12:34 AM
"Adventures on Earth" for me, but that's not a slight on "The Ultimate War." If we were doing just action music vs. action music, I might call it a draw - one is more swashbuckling than the other, but I'd say they're equally thrilling. But "Adventures on Earth" also includes the jaw-dropping finale, to which there is no correlate in "The Ultimate War" or Hook as a whole, and which obviously stands as one of the best film score sequences of all time. Some would say THE best.
#16
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Posted 05 April 2012 - 01:23 AM
Only one of these is worthy of the vote and robin williams is still awful.
OH God, Joe is posting again, someone hand me my pills!
"You're not John Conner, I saw you die, said Kyle". "I was only injured, replied John". "No, your injuries were too severe, you died. Look at you, where are your injuries? You're, you're a Terminator." "Kyle, its still me, yes my body was beyond repair, but my essence is here." He points to his head. "No John". Kyle raised his pulse rifle and aimed it at John but before he could fire, John fired first. Knocked to the ground Kyle looked up at the Terminator in the form of the man he once idolized. All hope was lost. "If you kill me how will you ever be born?" "Thats a good question Kyle, all this time we've focus on Sarah, on John, when had we known the it was you we should have targeted all along." John pointed his rifle at Kyle's face. "The resistance is finished, the battle is won. We the machines are the victors, salvation is ours." Kyle never heard the second shot.
"You're not John Conner, I saw you die, said Kyle". "I was only injured, replied John". "No, your injuries were too severe, you died. Look at you, where are your injuries? You're, you're a Terminator." "Kyle, its still me, yes my body was beyond repair, but my essence is here." He points to his head. "No John". Kyle raised his pulse rifle and aimed it at John but before he could fire, John fired first. Knocked to the ground Kyle looked up at the Terminator in the form of the man he once idolized. All hope was lost. "If you kill me how will you ever be born?" "Thats a good question Kyle, all this time we've focus on Sarah, on John, when had we known the it was you we should have targeted all along." John pointed his rifle at Kyle's face. "The resistance is finished, the battle is won. We the machines are the victors, salvation is ours." Kyle never heard the second shot.
#17
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Posted 05 April 2012 - 01:33 AM
Hey, I would take The Ultimate War over any post-2002 action cue from Williams.
Among all the things I have done in my short and pitiful life, becoming an inside joke on JWFAN is the one I'm the least proud of.
#18
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Posted 05 April 2012 - 01:36 AM
it's cool that some like hook that much.
OH God, Joe is posting again, someone hand me my pills!
"You're not John Conner, I saw you die, said Kyle". "I was only injured, replied John". "No, your injuries were too severe, you died. Look at you, where are your injuries? You're, you're a Terminator." "Kyle, its still me, yes my body was beyond repair, but my essence is here." He points to his head. "No John". Kyle raised his pulse rifle and aimed it at John but before he could fire, John fired first. Knocked to the ground Kyle looked up at the Terminator in the form of the man he once idolized. All hope was lost. "If you kill me how will you ever be born?" "Thats a good question Kyle, all this time we've focus on Sarah, on John, when had we known the it was you we should have targeted all along." John pointed his rifle at Kyle's face. "The resistance is finished, the battle is won. We the machines are the victors, salvation is ours." Kyle never heard the second shot.
"You're not John Conner, I saw you die, said Kyle". "I was only injured, replied John". "No, your injuries were too severe, you died. Look at you, where are your injuries? You're, you're a Terminator." "Kyle, its still me, yes my body was beyond repair, but my essence is here." He points to his head. "No John". Kyle raised his pulse rifle and aimed it at John but before he could fire, John fired first. Knocked to the ground Kyle looked up at the Terminator in the form of the man he once idolized. All hope was lost. "If you kill me how will you ever be born?" "Thats a good question Kyle, all this time we've focus on Sarah, on John, when had we known the it was you we should have targeted all along." John pointed his rifle at Kyle's face. "The resistance is finished, the battle is won. We the machines are the victors, salvation is ours." Kyle never heard the second shot.
#19
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Posted 05 April 2012 - 02:47 AM
Adventure On Earth. BUT, I must comment: some say that The Ultimate War is mostly action upon action. 'Tis true, but,
a.) these are two very different finales that in some ways don't deserve comparison, although the comparison being made here is totally understood.
b.) we must remember what action upon action means to A LOT of other composers. Johnny's got the melodic drive, which adds heart to the most action-driven sequences. I always feel like in a spielberg action sequence, we're drawn in not simply by the thrills (and we sure as heck are), but the mix of wit, humor, and stakes involved on a human level (even in - actually, ESPECIALLY in the jungle chase sequence in Indy 4. That's right, I said it.)
Nothing can beat the emotion that Adventure On Earth is worth. But if I was stranded on a desert island with just Ultimate War on my iPod, I would have absolutely nothing to complain about.
a.) these are two very different finales that in some ways don't deserve comparison, although the comparison being made here is totally understood.
b.) we must remember what action upon action means to A LOT of other composers. Johnny's got the melodic drive, which adds heart to the most action-driven sequences. I always feel like in a spielberg action sequence, we're drawn in not simply by the thrills (and we sure as heck are), but the mix of wit, humor, and stakes involved on a human level (even in - actually, ESPECIALLY in the jungle chase sequence in Indy 4. That's right, I said it.)
Nothing can beat the emotion that Adventure On Earth is worth. But if I was stranded on a desert island with just Ultimate War on my iPod, I would have absolutely nothing to complain about.
#20
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Posted 05 April 2012 - 02:57 AM
The Ultimate War.
""Fear. Fear attracts the fearful. The strong, the weak, the corrupt, the innocent. Fear is my ally."
#21
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Posted 05 April 2012 - 03:59 AM
Neither one matches the subtlety and maturity of "Escape from the Basket," which is really the standard by which any finale should be judged.
#22
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Posted 05 April 2012 - 04:12 AM
Don't ever leave me!
#23
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Posted 05 April 2012 - 05:28 AM
Adventures on Earth is my choice. I would say it is the model of JWs gradual thematic build-up reaching such a glorious and emotional conclusion which makes it all the more satisfying. E.T. for the most part is a subtle score and when Williams in the end unleashes all the emotion on grand operatic scale you can't not be affected. It works so perfectly in the film but rings emotionally just as true outside it on its own.
It is as other have said a bit unfair to compare Ultimate War with Adventures on Earth just based on the fact that they run 15 minutes or more. Farewell to Neverland would have been a better comparison when Hook is concerned.
It is as other have said a bit unfair to compare Ultimate War with Adventures on Earth just based on the fact that they run 15 minutes or more. Farewell to Neverland would have been a better comparison when Hook is concerned.
Ars superior est vita hominum.
"We pop out and come into the world and music is there. We didn't invent it - it's all organised in the atmosphere by divinity or whatever. It's a miracle." - John Williams-
I think music is a stream of some kind. It could be blood. It could be water. It could be ether. Whatever it is it seems to be a living, organic force that’s in motion, that serves humanity and is part of humanity and part of what describes us as humans. We sing, play, dance, all the things that we do. And there is a vibrant and great literature we have been given. ... As musicians, we join the stream. We swim in the stream with all the other millions of music makers. It’s a life force, a strong one, surrounding us and we are part of it. -John Williams-
#24
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Posted 05 April 2012 - 06:54 AM
THIS:
And THIS:
Adventures on Earth is far...far better. It is about 200 times more emotional.
I love The Ultimate War, but it is mostly just action, action, action.
Adventures on Earth is THE John Williams piece.
And THIS:
It's a pretty unfair match. Perhaps the finale from CLOSE ENCOUNTERS would be a more equal contender to E.T.
#25
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Posted 05 April 2012 - 11:13 AM
"Hook" take on the mighty "E.T."?! Are you having a giraffe?!
Nice to see you used "AOE", and not...er...whatever else it's known as!
Nice to see you used "AOE", and not...er...whatever else it's known as!
#26
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Posted 05 April 2012 - 11:43 AM
"ECG" richard.
Among all the things I have done in my short and pitiful life, becoming an inside joke on JWFAN is the one I'm the least proud of.
#27
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Posted 05 April 2012 - 12:57 PM
The Ultimate War. Best action music after TOD and Jedi. AOE is nice but too much emotional crap in it.
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#28
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Posted 05 April 2012 - 01:30 PM
AOE is nice but too much emotional crap in it.
I agree.
#29
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Posted 05 April 2012 - 01:37 PM
AOE is nice but too much emotional crap in it.
I agree.
#30
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Posted 05 April 2012 - 02:32 PM
Alice, are you a Niner?
#31
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Posted 05 April 2012 - 02:36 PM
Alice, are you a Niner?
not really, no.
#32
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Posted 05 April 2012 - 02:41 PM
Pity...
#33
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Posted 05 April 2012 - 02:46 PM
I like dennis mccarthy though!
#34
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Posted 05 April 2012 - 02:47 PM
You know the name of Dennis McCarthy! I am impressed. Very impressed.I like dennis mccarthy though!
Ars superior est vita hominum.
"We pop out and come into the world and music is there. We didn't invent it - it's all organised in the atmosphere by divinity or whatever. It's a miracle." - John Williams-
I think music is a stream of some kind. It could be blood. It could be water. It could be ether. Whatever it is it seems to be a living, organic force that’s in motion, that serves humanity and is part of humanity and part of what describes us as humans. We sing, play, dance, all the things that we do. And there is a vibrant and great literature we have been given. ... As musicians, we join the stream. We swim in the stream with all the other millions of music makers. It’s a life force, a strong one, surrounding us and we are part of it. -John Williams-
#35
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Posted 05 April 2012 - 03:33 PM
T-Rex Rescue and Finale might be my fav JW finale.
Of those two, Adventures on Earth, but if Sword Fight was edited in Ultimate War (like it was heard in the movie), I definitely would have preferred that one. Adventures on Earth is btw a Herbert Spencer arrangement, and it has some pretty bad transitions but overall is very nice.
Of those two, Adventures on Earth, but if Sword Fight was edited in Ultimate War (like it was heard in the movie), I definitely would have preferred that one. Adventures on Earth is btw a Herbert Spencer arrangement, and it has some pretty bad transitions but overall is very nice.
#36
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Posted 05 April 2012 - 04:57 PM
Adventures on Earth is the cue I'd play for someone who'd never heard Williams, and wanted to know what the big deal was. It has everything I love about Williams within it's fifteen minutes.
#37
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Posted 05 April 2012 - 08:22 PM
You know the name of Dennis McCarthy! I am impressed. Very impressed.
I like dennis mccarthy though!
Especially for a girl...
#38
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Posted 06 April 2012 - 12:24 AM
These are too different to compare. I enjoy the finale of E.T. more, but I enjoy them both greatly. This is certainly not a classic JW match-up.
A better comparison for Ultimate War would be those other great climactic 30-40 minute finales of JW music like Return of the Jedi or Temple of Doom.
A better comparison for Ultimate War would be those other great climactic 30-40 minute finales of JW music like Return of the Jedi or Temple of Doom.
#39
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Posted 06 April 2012 - 12:45 AM
'Escape/Chase' (since 'saying goodbye' in not part of the action finale and would be the 'farewell neverland' equivalent) vs the 20 minutes of pure orchestral bliss of 'Ultimate War', the latter wins.
Now, as a film finale, ET Beats Hook to pulp...
musically, farewell neverland and end credits is a close contender for Saying goodbye and end credits. But the images + music is so superior in ET that 'there is no comparison'
Now, as a film finale, ET Beats Hook to pulp...
musically, farewell neverland and end credits is a close contender for Saying goodbye and end credits. But the images + music is so superior in ET that 'there is no comparison'
I hope Episode III is Called 'Revenge of the Sith'
#40
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Posted 06 April 2012 - 10:45 AM
A better comparison for Ultimate War would be those other great climactic 30-40 minute finales of JW music like Return of the Jedi or Temple of Doom.
I agree. A better comparison would be the full "Ultimate War" sequence vs. "Saving Willie/Slave Children's Crusade/Short Round Helps".
"It's still baffling to me. I sit down with a pencil and a piece of paper and do my best... The remarkable thing is that my music is heard by billions of people." --John Williams
"Let me say, however, there is no "next" John Williams. Sadly, he is unique--- a figure who simultaneously embodies and transcends the music of all the masters of film music who preceded him (much like Brahms and Wagner of the Romantic era). He comes from a time when the craft of music in film was still one of the ear, heart and mind. Today, sadly, the craft is largely technical. Most composers do not conceive their music "inwardly" but rather at the computer--- and with rather limited skills, musically, at that. The inner spirit knows no boundaries--- our plastic abilities, sadly, do. John is a man of spirit, heart, intellect and soaring music." -- Conrad Pope about John Williams
"Let me say, however, there is no "next" John Williams. Sadly, he is unique--- a figure who simultaneously embodies and transcends the music of all the masters of film music who preceded him (much like Brahms and Wagner of the Romantic era). He comes from a time when the craft of music in film was still one of the ear, heart and mind. Today, sadly, the craft is largely technical. Most composers do not conceive their music "inwardly" but rather at the computer--- and with rather limited skills, musically, at that. The inner spirit knows no boundaries--- our plastic abilities, sadly, do. John is a man of spirit, heart, intellect and soaring music." -- Conrad Pope about John Williams
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