Thank you very much, Jason. Having this kind of information makes the completist in me SOOOO happy. I love seeing complete cue lists...this is awesome.
HOOK: Complete Cue List and Chronological Editing Guide
Started by Jason LeBlanc, Apr 05 2012 02:19 PM
Hook Complete Cue List
94 replies to this topic
#41
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Posted 06 April 2012 - 03:33 AM
#42
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Posted 06 April 2012 - 03:39 AM
Thanks Jason. I really, really, really don't want to do any editing but at least I can make a playlist that's approximate enough.
John- contemplating unburying the old music editor from underneath vast amounts of accumulated digital dust
John- contemplating unburying the old music editor from underneath vast amounts of accumulated digital dust
The First Question. The Oldest Question in the Universe, hidden in plain sight...
#43
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Posted 06 April 2012 - 06:58 AM
I am not sure if this has been discussed since the Hook discussion has been going on so strong in several threads but Jason you mentioned that some of the takes on the LLL set are not the film versions, and of course there obviously different takes like the Pirates! (5m6/6m1 Hook's Entrance) with that extra fanfare. Can we say how much of the LLL set is comprised of film takes?
Ars superior est vita hominum.
"We pop out and come into the world and music is there. We didn't invent it - it's all organised in the atmosphere by divinity or whatever. It's a miracle." - John Williams-
I think music is a stream of some kind. It could be blood. It could be water. It could be ether. Whatever it is it seems to be a living, organic force that’s in motion, that serves humanity and is part of humanity and part of what describes us as humans. We sing, play, dance, all the things that we do. And there is a vibrant and great literature we have been given. ... As musicians, we join the stream. We swim in the stream with all the other millions of music makers. It’s a life force, a strong one, surrounding us and we are part of it. -John Williams-
#44
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Posted 06 April 2012 - 08:45 AM
I'd love to have the different shorter cues from ULTIMATE WAR I available. I can't stand sections of that cue because the somewhat portentous jauntiness, but so it means a prolonged session with Adobe Audition (with surely questionable results).
You wouldn't see a subtle plan if it painted itself purple and danced naked on top of a harpsichord, singing "Subtle Plans Are Here Again."
#45
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Posted 06 April 2012 - 08:22 PM
Great compendium, Jason.
Do you like John Williams? His early work was a little too jazzy for my taste, but when Jaws came out in '75 I really think he came into his own, commercially and artistically. The whole album has a clear, crisp sound, and an air of consummate professionalism that really gives the pieces a big boost. He's been compared to Jerry Goldsmith but I think John has a far more leitmotif-driven style of composing. In '82 John composed this, E.T., his most accomplished album to date. I think his undisputed masterpiece is "The Magic of Halloween", a theme so catchy most people don't listen to what it means. But they should, because it's not just about the pleasures of childhood and the importance of friendship, it's also a personal statement about the man himself. Hey Paul!
- Patrick Bateman on the Maestro
- Patrick Bateman on the Maestro
#46
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Posted 06 April 2012 - 08:37 PM
I am not sure if this has been discussed since the Hook discussion has been going on so strong in several threads but Jason you mentioned that some of the takes on the LLL set are not the film versions, and of course there obviously different takes like the Pirates! (5m6/6m1 Hook's Entrance) with that extra fanfare. Can we say how much of the LLL set is comprised of film takes?
It's going to take a long time to go through everything. Sometimes the LLL set has the film take and the boots had an alternate one, sometimes its the other way around, etc.
-Jay
#47
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Posted 07 April 2012 - 12:22 AM
Hi, Jason. Thank you for listing all of the cues. I was just curious to ask you about one of the cues: 5M2 Arrival At Neverland.
Exactly what is this cue?
And what exactly is the last unreleased 20 seconds of 7M4 Enter Rufio?
Also, could you elaborate to me on the missing, unused 20 seconds of 15M2 The End of Hook?
Exactly what is this cue?
And what exactly is the last unreleased 20 seconds of 7M4 Enter Rufio?
Also, could you elaborate to me on the missing, unused 20 seconds of 15M2 The End of Hook?
#48
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Posted 07 April 2012 - 12:27 AM
Arrival at Neverland is that part at the beginning of Presenting the Hook.
#49
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Posted 07 April 2012 - 10:17 PM
5M2 Arrival At Neverland is unreleased, though.
The revised version is the beginning of Presenting the Hook.
I would like Jason to answer my three questions that I asked him, not to be rude or anything.
The revised version is the beginning of Presenting the Hook.
I would like Jason to answer my three questions that I asked him, not to be rude or anything.
#50
Jason LeBlanc
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Posted 07 April 2012 - 11:39 PM
Hi, Jason. Thank you for listing all of the cues. I was just curious to ask you about one of the cues: 5M2 Arrival At Neverland.
Exactly what is this cue?
Its exactly the same as the revised version you know from the film, OST, LLL, etc.... Just with less music at the beginning and end. You're not missing anything.
And what exactly is the last unreleased 20 seconds of 7M4 Enter Rufio?
Basically just a slower reprise of the ending of the cue as you know it. No biggie.
Also, could you elaborate to me on the missing, unused 20 seconds of 15M2 The End of Hook?
Its a triumphant fanfaric version of the Lost Boys theme. Pretty cool.
-Jay
#51
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Posted 08 April 2012 - 08:52 AM
Great list and it's really annoying to see how little is missing and how it could have all been on there!
I still don't get why Mr. Williams needed to remove cues and not want the inserts included, doesn't he or people who represent him get it that we want every note he composed regardless of cues being too similiar to eachother because personally I have never cared for album versions I just always want the complete recording sessions.
I still don't get why Mr. Williams needed to remove cues and not want the inserts included, doesn't he or people who represent him get it that we want every note he composed regardless of cues being too similiar to eachother because personally I have never cared for album versions I just always want the complete recording sessions.
#52
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Posted 08 April 2012 - 10:04 AM
I still don't get why Mr. Williams needed to remove cues and not want the inserts included, doesn't he or people who represent him get it that we want every note he composed
He gets it. It's just his gentle way of saying F... YOU.
You wouldn't see a subtle plan if it painted itself purple and danced naked on top of a harpsichord, singing "Subtle Plans Are Here Again."
#53
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Posted 08 April 2012 - 11:25 AM
it's so true it hurts 
I hope Episode III is Called 'Revenge of the Sith'
#54
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Posted 08 April 2012 - 11:29 AM
Great list and it's really annoying to see how little is missing and how it could have all been on there!
I still don't get why Mr. Williams needed to remove cues and not want the inserts included, doesn't he or people who represent him get it that we want every note he composed regardless of cues being too similiar to eachother because personally I have never cared for album versions I just always want the complete recording sessions.
Basically, no - he doesn't
Williams is very conscious about what gets released, and if an insert was a last minute change and doesn't reflect what he wanted for that scene, or if he feels a track is too repetitive, then he doesn't want it on disc. And as much as I hate people 'sucking up' to famous personalities, saying 'no' to a Williams request is probably not a good way to ensure future releases
It's unfortunate - one of the most desired composers for unreleased music is one of the most undesired for C&C fans when it comes to being involved in the release.
#55
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Posted 08 April 2012 - 11:32 AM
Like with every releas he gets involved in, Williams does it purely to upset KM.
Repeat the JWFan pledge after me: 'I hereby recognise John Towner Williams' place in the world as the great composer there has ever been, and I therefore renounce the works of Rozsa, Korngold, Herrmann, Horner, Kamen, Giacchino (unless the prophecy is fulfilled and he becomes the heir to JTW) and Goldsmith, especially Goldsmith. I understand that if I ever refer to Jurassic Park as anything less than "a masterpiece sixty-five million years in the making" I will be resigned to living out my days at the Zimmershrine.'
#56
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Posted 08 April 2012 - 11:54 AM
Great list and it's really annoying to see how little is missing and how it could have all been on there!
I still don't get why Mr. Williams needed to remove cues and not want the inserts included, doesn't he or people who represent him get it that we want every note he composed regardless of cues being too similiar to eachother because personally I have never cared for album versions I just always want the complete recording sessions.
Basically, no - he doesn't
Williams is very conscious about what gets released, and if an insert was a last minute change and doesn't reflect what he wanted for that scene, or if he feels a track is too repetitive, then he doesn't want it on disc. And as much as I hate people 'sucking up' to famous personalities, saying 'no' to a Williams request is probably not a good way to ensure future releases
It's unfortunate - one of the most desired composers for unreleased music is one of the most undesired for C&C fans when it comes to being involved in the release.
Then he must hate the original version of the AOTC finale... and other inserts and revisions that ended in his OSTs...
COS' harry's wondrous world = WTF?!
I hope Episode III is Called 'Revenge of the Sith'
#57
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Posted 11 April 2012 - 07:16 PM
Form Rank also comes in too early.
Actually, "Form Ranks" is edited perfectly on the La La Land album and comes in a half a beat too late on the OST
-Erik-
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host and producer of CINEMATIC SOUND
http://www.cinematicsound.net
host and producer of CINEMATIC SOUND
http://www.cinematicsound.net
#58
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Posted 11 April 2012 - 07:25 PM
Yea, I should have clarified that Form Rank comes in early when compared to the OST. It comes in on the LLL CD exactly the way it does in the film itself.
-Jay
#59
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Posted 11 April 2012 - 07:48 PM
and "Crossed Swords" also starts early in the film? why would one want to create that?
________________________________________________________________________________
Brink: I don't care if you have to cut off my hand, just don't leave me to die here!
Maggie Robbins: Don't be so dramatic Brink; nobody is going to cut off your hand.
Boston Low: Don't make promises you might not be able to keep Maggie
Brink: I don't care if you have to cut off my hand, just don't leave me to die here!
Maggie Robbins: Don't be so dramatic Brink; nobody is going to cut off your hand.
Boston Low: Don't make promises you might not be able to keep Maggie
#60
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Posted 11 April 2012 - 07:57 PM
and "Crossed Swords" also starts early in the film? why would one want to create that?
All the cues for "The Ultimate War" how they are transitioned on the LLL set matches EXACTLY like in the film.
I know because I did a comparison of the two. I used the RL and RR channels from the DVD since that had no sfx. So the LLL set is right as far as transitions go.
"Let's make sure history never forgets the name......Enterprise." - Captain Picard
#61
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Posted 11 April 2012 - 07:58 PM
Whether or not the FILM matches Williams' intentions or not, though, is another story...
-Jay
#62
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Posted 11 April 2012 - 08:00 PM
The way how they are mixed on the LLL set and in the film sounds natural.
"Let's make sure history never forgets the name......Enterprise." - Captain Picard
#63
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Posted 11 April 2012 - 08:08 PM
whut?
no it doesnt.
no it doesnt.
Among all the things I have done in my short and pitiful life, becoming an inside joke on JWFAN is the one I'm the least proud of.
#64
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Posted 11 April 2012 - 10:26 PM
Well, logically, Williams' main goal should be to match the film, right? After all, this is not supposed to be a concert suite!Whether or not the FILM matches Williams' intentions or not, though, is another story...
#65
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Posted 12 April 2012 - 12:28 AM
whut?
no it doesnt.
Obviously you were not paying attention. I'm talking about the transitions.
"Let's make sure history never forgets the name......Enterprise." - Captain Picard
#66
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Posted 12 April 2012 - 12:55 AM
I got you.
I still do not agree....
the one transition in the insert area sucks.
I still do not agree....
the one transition in the insert area sucks.
Among all the things I have done in my short and pitiful life, becoming an inside joke on JWFAN is the one I'm the least proud of.
#67
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Posted 12 April 2012 - 12:57 AM
LLL Ultimate War is highly flawed.
#68
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Posted 12 April 2012 - 02:25 AM
Well, logically, Williams' main goal should be to match the film, right? After all, this is not supposed to be a concert suite!
Whether or not the FILM matches Williams' intentions or not, though, is another story...
You're missing the point. I agree Williams INTENDED his music to sync perfectly to the cut of the film he saw.
What I am saying is that the final film does not always match the composer's intentions.
-Jay
#69
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Posted 12 April 2012 - 03:29 PM
Finally got it today, actually held off from downloading but am pretty suprised by ultimate war, mainly the bit when pan first appears seems faster and completely different to the OST as well ofcourse all the different edits. So where exactly is that ultimate war material from compared to the OST?
#70
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Posted 12 April 2012 - 03:35 PM
I think they sped it up, to match the film insert.
Among all the things I have done in my short and pitiful life, becoming an inside joke on JWFAN is the one I'm the least proud of.
#71
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Posted 12 April 2012 - 11:11 PM
First of all, Jason, thanks so much for your editing guide. I've been using it a lot over the past few days to put together my own assembly. It's so generous of you take the time and trouble to do this for us.
Second: WOW. I lack some of the tinier pieces of the puzzle needed to make a definitive rendering (if there is such a thing), but having fitted what I can together it's close enough - and what was already one of my favourite JW scores has stepped up several places in my list. To experience the (almost) complete tapestry unfolding at last is stunning. In particular the whole Ultimate War sequence; on the OST it wasn't one of my favourite tracks - I found it bombastic and abrupt. But with its missing sections restored (with the horrid volume dips and peaks levelled out - I've spent quite a bit of time on that), and in the context of the sweep of the whole score, it suddenly makes complete sense. It's a thing of wonder - such invention, and detail, and colour, and verve - it's joyous.
Right now, I'm a very happy man.
Second: WOW. I lack some of the tinier pieces of the puzzle needed to make a definitive rendering (if there is such a thing), but having fitted what I can together it's close enough - and what was already one of my favourite JW scores has stepped up several places in my list. To experience the (almost) complete tapestry unfolding at last is stunning. In particular the whole Ultimate War sequence; on the OST it wasn't one of my favourite tracks - I found it bombastic and abrupt. But with its missing sections restored (with the horrid volume dips and peaks levelled out - I've spent quite a bit of time on that), and in the context of the sweep of the whole score, it suddenly makes complete sense. It's a thing of wonder - such invention, and detail, and colour, and verve - it's joyous.
Right now, I'm a very happy man.
#72
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Posted 13 April 2012 - 02:21 AM
Glad I could help
-Jay
#73
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Posted 24 April 2012 - 01:58 AM
But with its missing sections restored (with the horrid volume dips and peaks levelled out - I've spent quite a bit of time on that)
How did you level the volume dips? This was the most disappointing thing about this release. That the second half of the Ultimate War was taken from the film stems.
Also, if you could level out the dips, why didn't La La Land do the same when they mastered it?
#74
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Posted 24 April 2012 - 02:54 AM
Also, if you could level out the dips, why didn't La La Land do the same when they mastered it?
Many have wondered this. I think had Mike Matessino worked on it, he would have attempted to level everything out.
"Let's make sure history never forgets the name......Enterprise." - Captain Picard
#75
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Posted 28 April 2012 - 12:10 AM
Hey, Jason. What happened to the analysis chart?
It is gone! Nothing but scrambled typing!
What happened?
It is gone! Nothing but scrambled typing!
What happened?
#76
Jason LeBlanc
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Posted 28 April 2012 - 03:06 AM
Woah, what the!
I dunno what happened!!
Luckily everything is in-tact in the spreadsheet link in the second post (note the spreadsheet has multiple tabs)
I dunno what happened!!
Luckily everything is in-tact in the spreadsheet link in the second post (note the spreadsheet has multiple tabs)
-Jay
#77
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Posted 28 April 2012 - 02:36 PM
Woah, what the!
I dunno what happened!!
I would blame Elder Joe Harbinger.
I suggest a full frontal assault with automated laser monkeys, scalpel mines, and acid.
#78
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Posted 28 April 2012 - 03:49 PM
Hey, Jason. The spreadsheet link is in tact, but are you able to fix the actual analysis back to the way it was before it got scrambled?
If so, could you?
If so, could you?
#79
Jason LeBlanc
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Posted 28 April 2012 - 04:31 PM
Fixed it!
-Jay
#80
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Posted 28 April 2012 - 07:32 PM
Thank you, Jason!
By the way, when are you gonna revisit the analysis you started on Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones?
And War of the Worlds?
Oh, and when will you revisit the analysis on The Adventures of Tintin, and the analysis on War Horse?
By the way, when are you gonna revisit the analysis you started on Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones?
And War of the Worlds?
Oh, and when will you revisit the analysis on The Adventures of Tintin, and the analysis on War Horse?
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