I'm surprised how many people in this thread didn't realize the original trilogy's main titles were all different from each other
Poll: Which Star Wars film has the best recording of the Main Title?
Started by wanner251, Apr 10 2012 08:55 PM
74 replies to this topic
#41
Jason LeBlanc
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Posted 11 April 2012 - 01:32 PM
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#42
king mark
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Posted 11 April 2012 - 01:53 PM
it always was obvious to me
#43
Jason LeBlanc
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Posted 11 April 2012 - 01:58 PM
Of course
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#44
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Posted 11 April 2012 - 02:07 PM
Listening back, it's interesting how the prequel one sounds almost identical to the ESB recording.
Repeat the JWFan pledge after me: 'I hereby recognise John Towner Williams' place in the world as the great composer there has ever been, and I therefore renounce the works of Rozsa, Korngold, Herrmann, Horner, Kamen, Giacchino (unless the prophecy is fulfilled and he becomes the heir to JTW) and Goldsmith, especially Goldsmith. I understand that if I ever refer to Jurassic Park as anything less than "a masterpiece sixty-five million years in the making" I will be resigned to living out my days at the Zimmershrine.'
#45
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Posted 11 April 2012 - 02:09 PM
I once did a silly experiment putting all four Star Wars main title film recordings in an audio editor and made a downmix to play all of them at once. It was quite interesting 
"It's still baffling to me. I sit down with a pencil and a piece of paper and do my best... The remarkable thing is that my music is heard by billions of people." --John Williams
"Let me say, however, there is no "next" John Williams. Sadly, he is unique--- a figure who simultaneously embodies and transcends the music of all the masters of film music who preceded him (much like Brahms and Wagner of the Romantic era). He comes from a time when the craft of music in film was still one of the ear, heart and mind. Today, sadly, the craft is largely technical. Most composers do not conceive their music "inwardly" but rather at the computer--- and with rather limited skills, musically, at that. The inner spirit knows no boundaries--- our plastic abilities, sadly, do. John is a man of spirit, heart, intellect and soaring music." -- Conrad Pope about John Williams
"Let me say, however, there is no "next" John Williams. Sadly, he is unique--- a figure who simultaneously embodies and transcends the music of all the masters of film music who preceded him (much like Brahms and Wagner of the Romantic era). He comes from a time when the craft of music in film was still one of the ear, heart and mind. Today, sadly, the craft is largely technical. Most composers do not conceive their music "inwardly" but rather at the computer--- and with rather limited skills, musically, at that. The inner spirit knows no boundaries--- our plastic abilities, sadly, do. John is a man of spirit, heart, intellect and soaring music." -- Conrad Pope about John Williams
#46
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Posted 11 April 2012 - 02:14 PM
I find the ESB version to be the best. I love those stopped horns.
ROTJ also was a hack job! Everything is!
ROTJ also begins with a prominent drum roll.
wins for me.
Star Wars would, if it was not a hackjob. As it is, i just cant vote it.
ROTJ also was a hack job! Everything is!
#47
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Posted 11 April 2012 - 02:15 PM
Star Wars, nothing else is as good.
OH God, Joe is posting again, someone hand me my pills!
"You're not John Conner, I saw you die, said Kyle". "I was only injured, replied John". "No, your injuries were too severe, you died. Look at you, where are your injuries? You're, you're a Terminator." "Kyle, its still me, yes my body was beyond repair, but my essence is here." He points to his head. "No John". Kyle raised his pulse rifle and aimed it at John but before he could fire, John fired first. Knocked to the ground Kyle looked up at the Terminator in the form of the man he once idolized. All hope was lost. "If you kill me how will you ever be born?" "Thats a good question Kyle, all this time we've focus on Sarah, on John, when had we known the it was you we should have targeted all along." John pointed his rifle at Kyle's face. "The resistance is finished, the battle is won. We the machines are the victors, salvation is ours." Kyle never heard the second shot.
"You're not John Conner, I saw you die, said Kyle". "I was only injured, replied John". "No, your injuries were too severe, you died. Look at you, where are your injuries? You're, you're a Terminator." "Kyle, its still me, yes my body was beyond repair, but my essence is here." He points to his head. "No John". Kyle raised his pulse rifle and aimed it at John but before he could fire, John fired first. Knocked to the ground Kyle looked up at the Terminator in the form of the man he once idolized. All hope was lost. "If you kill me how will you ever be born?" "Thats a good question Kyle, all this time we've focus on Sarah, on John, when had we known the it was you we should have targeted all along." John pointed his rifle at Kyle's face. "The resistance is finished, the battle is won. We the machines are the victors, salvation is ours." Kyle never heard the second shot.
#48
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Posted 11 April 2012 - 02:18 PM
Only the Gerhardt rerecording is Joseph!
#49
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Posted 11 April 2012 - 02:20 PM
The 1997 mix of the ESB main title is horrible though. I don't like horns and trumpets in the center channel.
The LP has it right, the trumpets in the right and the horns in the left.
The LP has it right, the trumpets in the right and the horns in the left.
#50
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Posted 11 April 2012 - 02:21 PM
Goldsmith likes trumpets and horns in the center channel (ST:TMP).
Among all the things I have done in my short and pitiful life, becoming an inside joke on JWFAN is the one I'm the least proud of.
#51
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Posted 11 April 2012 - 02:21 PM
nope I never thought it was as good as all you do.Only the Gerhardt rerecording is Joseph!
OH God, Joe is posting again, someone hand me my pills!
"You're not John Conner, I saw you die, said Kyle". "I was only injured, replied John". "No, your injuries were too severe, you died. Look at you, where are your injuries? You're, you're a Terminator." "Kyle, its still me, yes my body was beyond repair, but my essence is here." He points to his head. "No John". Kyle raised his pulse rifle and aimed it at John but before he could fire, John fired first. Knocked to the ground Kyle looked up at the Terminator in the form of the man he once idolized. All hope was lost. "If you kill me how will you ever be born?" "Thats a good question Kyle, all this time we've focus on Sarah, on John, when had we known the it was you we should have targeted all along." John pointed his rifle at Kyle's face. "The resistance is finished, the battle is won. We the machines are the victors, salvation is ours." Kyle never heard the second shot.
"You're not John Conner, I saw you die, said Kyle". "I was only injured, replied John". "No, your injuries were too severe, you died. Look at you, where are your injuries? You're, you're a Terminator." "Kyle, its still me, yes my body was beyond repair, but my essence is here." He points to his head. "No John". Kyle raised his pulse rifle and aimed it at John but before he could fire, John fired first. Knocked to the ground Kyle looked up at the Terminator in the form of the man he once idolized. All hope was lost. "If you kill me how will you ever be born?" "Thats a good question Kyle, all this time we've focus on Sarah, on John, when had we known the it was you we should have targeted all along." John pointed his rifle at Kyle's face. "The resistance is finished, the battle is won. We the machines are the victors, salvation is ours." Kyle never heard the second shot.
#52
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Posted 11 April 2012 - 02:23 PM
Goldsmith likes trumpets and horns in the center channel (ST:TMP).
if you listen closely the horns are at the left and the trumpets are appr. 40% in the right.
#53
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Posted 11 April 2012 - 02:25 PM
nope I never thought it was as good as all you do.
Get the crusties of of your ears and get back to me.
it's the best version ever recorded. Williams has bowed in shame in front of it.
Goldsmith likes trumpets and horns in the center channel (ST:TMP).
No such thing on stereo recordings I'm afraid.
#54
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Posted 11 April 2012 - 03:28 PM
I never realized the recordings were different until I started critically listening a few years ago. My favorites are A NEW HOPE and JEDI, each one has its stunning moments.
My mind must be playing tricks on me - I thought that I heard more rolling snare in the SITH opening, like the music had more of a "military march" feel.
My mind must be playing tricks on me - I thought that I heard more rolling snare in the SITH opening, like the music had more of a "military march" feel.
#55
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Posted 11 April 2012 - 05:39 PM
This is a toughie. What I know for sure is that ROTJ has my least favorite recording. ESB isn't my favorite, either, though it's still a fine recording. ANH has that in-your-face boldness and brilliance, but the prequels are more technically precise and less harsh on the ears. I enjoy both quite a bit. In the end, I'd have to choose ANH, I suppose.
There's no separate stereo channel, but if you have the exact same signal in the left and right channels, it amounts to the same thing.
Goldsmith likes trumpets and horns in the center channel (ST:TMP).
No such thing on stereo recordings I'm afraid.
There's no separate stereo channel, but if you have the exact same signal in the left and right channels, it amounts to the same thing.
#56
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Posted 12 April 2012 - 08:23 PM
I'll reply to this thread with my response to a similar thread in 2007:
I get chills equally from "Star Wars" and "The Empire Strikes Back."
"Star Wars" for its opening blast and the way the tempo seems to pick up slightly as the main theme churns away, and for the French horn near the end. (I've always wished there was footage of those first takes. There had to be a lot of electricity in the air, knowing that they were doing something amazing.)
"The Empire Strikes Back" for the bridge between the string section and the second rendition of the theme, and the trumpet crescendo near the end.
I get the use of the trumpet solo in "Jedi" symbolizing Luke's lone journey to overturn the Emperor and his heroic attempt. But the orchestra at times doesn't seem to be in sync and JW has to wrangle them all together a couple of times. Of course, that could just be the editing.
I think Empire had a fuller sound in the original recording, which may be due to upgrades in mixing during those three years. Add in the militaristic feel of the recording (played as more of a march than in 1977) and it just slightly trumps the 1977 version.
I get chills equally from "Star Wars" and "The Empire Strikes Back."
"Star Wars" for its opening blast and the way the tempo seems to pick up slightly as the main theme churns away, and for the French horn near the end. (I've always wished there was footage of those first takes. There had to be a lot of electricity in the air, knowing that they were doing something amazing.)
"The Empire Strikes Back" for the bridge between the string section and the second rendition of the theme, and the trumpet crescendo near the end.
I get the use of the trumpet solo in "Jedi" symbolizing Luke's lone journey to overturn the Emperor and his heroic attempt. But the orchestra at times doesn't seem to be in sync and JW has to wrangle them all together a couple of times. Of course, that could just be the editing.
I think Empire had a fuller sound in the original recording, which may be due to upgrades in mixing during those three years. Add in the militaristic feel of the recording (played as more of a march than in 1977) and it just slightly trumps the 1977 version.
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#57
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Posted 12 April 2012 - 08:47 PM
The timpani, especially at 1:04, makes this my favourite of the film recordings.
Only the Gerhardt rerecording is Joseph!
...but this remains the best one, overall, to me.
#58
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Posted 12 April 2012 - 09:03 PM
The timpani, especially at 1:04, makes this my favourite of the film recordings
Never payed a tension to the timpani there. Cool indeed!
#59
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Posted 13 April 2012 - 08:55 AM
It's interesting to note that in the 1977 original film recording Williams gave the role of prominent rhythmic accompainment to the timpani, but starting with the symphonic suite he replaced them with snare drums, which became standard in all subsequent recordings of the main title.
"It's still baffling to me. I sit down with a pencil and a piece of paper and do my best... The remarkable thing is that my music is heard by billions of people." --John Williams
"Let me say, however, there is no "next" John Williams. Sadly, he is unique--- a figure who simultaneously embodies and transcends the music of all the masters of film music who preceded him (much like Brahms and Wagner of the Romantic era). He comes from a time when the craft of music in film was still one of the ear, heart and mind. Today, sadly, the craft is largely technical. Most composers do not conceive their music "inwardly" but rather at the computer--- and with rather limited skills, musically, at that. The inner spirit knows no boundaries--- our plastic abilities, sadly, do. John is a man of spirit, heart, intellect and soaring music." -- Conrad Pope about John Williams
"Let me say, however, there is no "next" John Williams. Sadly, he is unique--- a figure who simultaneously embodies and transcends the music of all the masters of film music who preceded him (much like Brahms and Wagner of the Romantic era). He comes from a time when the craft of music in film was still one of the ear, heart and mind. Today, sadly, the craft is largely technical. Most composers do not conceive their music "inwardly" but rather at the computer--- and with rather limited skills, musically, at that. The inner spirit knows no boundaries--- our plastic abilities, sadly, do. John is a man of spirit, heart, intellect and soaring music." -- Conrad Pope about John Williams
#60
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Posted 13 April 2012 - 09:31 AM
Yes!I think ESB is probably best, but SW has an intangible nostalgic quality that makes me love it most. I also love the take 16 version with the swell before the crash.
Karol
From a storytelling point of view, from a directing point of view, there is one thing I associate with what he does, which is calm. There is such an inherent calm and inherent trust of the one powerful image, that he makes me embarrassed with my own work, in terms of how many different shots, how many different sound effects, how many different things well throw at an audience to make an impression. But with Kubrick, there is such a great trust of the one correct image to calmly explain something to audience. There can be some slowness to the editing. Theres nothing frenetic about it. Its very simple. Theres a trust in simple storytelling and simple image making that actually takes massive confidence to try and emulate.
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#61
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Posted 14 April 2012 - 04:17 AM
I think the best recording of the SW Main titles must be this:
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#62
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Posted 15 April 2012 - 02:22 PM
They're all the same to me.
#63
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Posted 15 April 2012 - 02:26 PM
Then you are stupid.
#64
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Posted 15 April 2012 - 09:59 PM
By the way, it stuns me that ROTJ is nearly tied for first place. It's always struck me as the clear loser in this battle.
#65
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Posted 15 April 2012 - 10:17 PM
Well people love full and rich brass(especially trumpets) sound. Nothing wrong with that.
And I don't like when they stuck the microphone almost inside of the horn bell like in the first film. The sound will be unnatural.
And I don't like when they stuck the microphone almost inside of the horn bell like in the first film. The sound will be unnatural.
#66
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Posted 15 April 2012 - 10:41 PM
Then you are stupid.
No, I'm really not.
#67
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Posted 15 April 2012 - 10:57 PM
It's interesting to note that in the 1977 original film recording Williams gave the role of prominent rhythmic accompainment to the timpani, but starting with the symphonic suite he replaced them with snare drums, which became standard in all subsequent recordings of the main title.
might have something to do with the line in the script: "War Drums thunder throughout the galaxy"
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#68
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Posted 15 April 2012 - 10:58 PM
ESB is the only one that is different arrangment wise (the intro is slightly different) ROTJ just has more trumpets.
I thought ESB and ROTJ both had 4 trumpets?
#69
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Posted 15 April 2012 - 11:05 PM
Jedi's sounds more punchy. It sends the last one off with more of a bang. I just like it most, I think.
#70
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Posted 15 April 2012 - 11:29 PM
ESB is the only one that is different arrangment wise (the intro is slightly different) ROTJ just has more trumpets.
I thought ESB and ROTJ both had 4 trumpets?
I meant, the Trumpets are more emphasized in Jedi.
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#71
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Posted 15 April 2012 - 11:47 PM
Well people love full and rich brass(especially trumpets) sound. Nothing wrong with that.
And I don't like when they stuck the microphone almost inside of the horn bell like in the first film. The sound will be unnatural.
It's the trumpets that turn me off most from ROTJ's recording - the sloppy performance, the extra notes heading back into the "A" theme, and the fact that the trumpets are simply too prominent in the mix. I'm all for the sort of brilliant, slightly imprecise gusto that you hear in a lot of LSO recordings from that era, but I find this particular recording of this particular cue to be the dark side of that tendency. It doesn't sound professional to me.
The horns, on the other hand, don't sound too great in ANH. I agree.
#72
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Posted 16 April 2012 - 11:22 AM
Well my opinion of the Main Title is based to the original LP records. In the Jedi OST the trumpets are very good
but I agree that in the later , expanded releases there are many cues where the trumpets are ...well not so good.
We have to also remember that the trumpet parts in Jedi are extremely difficult...
but I agree that in the later , expanded releases there are many cues where the trumpets are ...well not so good.
We have to also remember that the trumpet parts in Jedi are extremely difficult...
#73
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Posted 16 April 2012 - 03:39 PM
Spoken like a hornplayer.
#74
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Posted 16 April 2012 - 05:27 PM
SW: Most iconic of the lot; relaxed, a bit stately & soft in playing- very Korngold / Golden Age vibe.
ESB: Upfront, more "martial" & "militaristic", in your face aggressive; cut from Superman: The Movie sonic cloth.
ROTJ: Refined and elegant, quite classical sounding- got some of that nice slight ambience also found on the Raiders OST.
Prequels: Like a weird amalgam combo of the playing on ESB with the classical centric recording of ROTJ- not really a highlight, more an afterthought.
Anyway, ESB's slightly edges out ROTJ's as far personal preference.
Though not necessarily best, SW's Main TItle is definitive (or whichever resulted from the edited takes put together back in '77).
ESB: Upfront, more "martial" & "militaristic", in your face aggressive; cut from Superman: The Movie sonic cloth.
ROTJ: Refined and elegant, quite classical sounding- got some of that nice slight ambience also found on the Raiders OST.
Prequels: Like a weird amalgam combo of the playing on ESB with the classical centric recording of ROTJ- not really a highlight, more an afterthought.
Anyway, ESB's slightly edges out ROTJ's as far personal preference.
Though not necessarily best, SW's Main TItle is definitive (or whichever resulted from the edited takes put together back in '77).
"If you are a movie fan (and who isn't) you may sit in a movie theater three times a week listening to the symphonic background scores which Hollywood composers concoct. What happens? Your musical tastes become molded by these scores... You see love, and you hear it. Simultaneously. It makes sense. Music suddenly becomes a language for you, without your knowing it."
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#75
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Posted 17 April 2012 - 02:23 AM
Though the prequel main title may have been sourced from the same recording, there are some slight differences in the mixes. For instance, the harp glissendo when the introduction segues into the main theme comes out a lot clearer in Episode 3.
In the original trilogy ESB wins hands down. Rough recording on ANH and out of tune brass on ROTJ.
In the original trilogy ESB wins hands down. Rough recording on ANH and out of tune brass on ROTJ.
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