I've noticed this recently -- this tends to be for mostly Europa-produced movies and the rare U.S. film like Source Code. Mostly if a certain ensemble is involved a la London Symphony Orchestra, Northwest Sinfonia, or even the Hollywood Studio Symphony, they'll be credited by name only. Some scores recorded in L.A. or London don't even mention the location.
But it's even rarer to see the full list of orchestra performers mentioned in a film like Lockout or Source Code. Should more studios be required to do this or does it really matter?
Should movies credit session musicians too?
Started by Matt C, Apr 19 2012 03:04 AM
65 replies to this topic
#2
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Posted 19 April 2012 - 06:41 AM
Why?
#3
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Posted 19 April 2012 - 06:48 AM
If I were one of the orchestra members, I'd definitely want to be credited.
Sometimes they even list all the carpenters who worked on the stage props and furniture and whatnot, so why not?
Sometimes they even list all the carpenters who worked on the stage props and furniture and whatnot, so why not?
#4
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Posted 19 April 2012 - 06:52 AM
Because who cares about the music?
#5
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Posted 19 April 2012 - 07:07 AM
Yes, they should. At least soloists.
Recently Purchased CDs:
1. Nightwatch/Killer By Night - Johnny Williams and Quincy Jones 2. Diamond Head/Gone with the Wave - Johnny Williams/Lalo Schifrin 3. Mass - Leonard Bernstein 4. Bernstein with the New York Philharmonic - Leonard Bernstein
1. Nightwatch/Killer By Night - Johnny Williams and Quincy Jones 2. Diamond Head/Gone with the Wave - Johnny Williams/Lalo Schifrin 3. Mass - Leonard Bernstein 4. Bernstein with the New York Philharmonic - Leonard Bernstein
#6
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Posted 19 April 2012 - 07:08 AM
Well, soloist are usually listed, aren't they?
Itzhak Perlman, Yo-Yo Ma, etc.
Itzhak Perlman, Yo-Yo Ma, etc.
#7
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Posted 19 April 2012 - 08:33 AM
Hey, let's not get too crazy now. You keep heading down this road, sooner or later you'll have to start crediting the Angela Morleys of the world, and we know how horrible it would be to impugn the absolute nature of Williams' artistic autonomy.
#8
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Posted 19 April 2012 - 09:59 AM
To be part of a credit that says "LSO" (or whatever) should be good enough, after all the "LSO" is a moveable feast, and perhaps not all members played on the score at any one time (case in point, "Jane Eyre", which had members of the LSO playing on it, but not the full compliment).
I do suggest that all members who played on the score be credited individually on the c.d. booklet, (as the Hollywood Studio Symphony is fond of doing, for scores as far back as "The Swarm", and "Capricorn One"). This seems logical and respectful, as most - if not all - artists are credited on jazz, and rock, and blues albums, etc. For instance, an album that says "peter gabriel" is not just made and played on by Peter Gabriel...
If members of an orchestra insist that their names be on the end credits of a film, then surely, shouldn't the names of those who have played on featured songs in the film, get the same courtesy?
I do suggest that all members who played on the score be credited individually on the c.d. booklet, (as the Hollywood Studio Symphony is fond of doing, for scores as far back as "The Swarm", and "Capricorn One"). This seems logical and respectful, as most - if not all - artists are credited on jazz, and rock, and blues albums, etc. For instance, an album that says "peter gabriel" is not just made and played on by Peter Gabriel...
If members of an orchestra insist that their names be on the end credits of a film, then surely, shouldn't the names of those who have played on featured songs in the film, get the same courtesy?
#9
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Posted 19 April 2012 - 10:08 AM
Spike Lee's Inside Man credited every single Hollywood studio orchestra musician during the end credits roll. It's the only time I saw such a thing.
"It's still baffling to me. I sit down with a pencil and a piece of paper and do my best... The remarkable thing is that my music is heard by billions of people." --John Williams
"Let me say, however, there is no "next" John Williams. Sadly, he is unique--- a figure who simultaneously embodies and transcends the music of all the masters of film music who preceded him (much like Brahms and Wagner of the Romantic era). He comes from a time when the craft of music in film was still one of the ear, heart and mind. Today, sadly, the craft is largely technical. Most composers do not conceive their music "inwardly" but rather at the computer--- and with rather limited skills, musically, at that. The inner spirit knows no boundaries--- our plastic abilities, sadly, do. John is a man of spirit, heart, intellect and soaring music." -- Conrad Pope about John Williams
"Let me say, however, there is no "next" John Williams. Sadly, he is unique--- a figure who simultaneously embodies and transcends the music of all the masters of film music who preceded him (much like Brahms and Wagner of the Romantic era). He comes from a time when the craft of music in film was still one of the ear, heart and mind. Today, sadly, the craft is largely technical. Most composers do not conceive their music "inwardly" but rather at the computer--- and with rather limited skills, musically, at that. The inner spirit knows no boundaries--- our plastic abilities, sadly, do. John is a man of spirit, heart, intellect and soaring music." -- Conrad Pope about John Williams
#10
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Posted 19 April 2012 - 10:11 AM
Hey, let's not get too crazy now. You keep heading down this road, sooner or later you'll have to start crediting the Angela Morleys of the world, and we know how horrible it would be to impugn the absolute nature of Williams' artistic autonomy.
Ars superior est vita hominum.
"We pop out and come into the world and music is there. We didn't invent it - it's all organised in the atmosphere by divinity or whatever. It's a miracle." - John Williams-
I think music is a stream of some kind. It could be blood. It could be water. It could be ether. Whatever it is it seems to be a living, organic force that’s in motion, that serves humanity and is part of humanity and part of what describes us as humans. We sing, play, dance, all the things that we do. And there is a vibrant and great literature we have been given. ... As musicians, we join the stream. We swim in the stream with all the other millions of music makers. It’s a life force, a strong one, surrounding us and we are part of it. -John Williams-
#11
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Posted 19 April 2012 - 10:20 AM
To be part of a credit that says "LSO" (or whatever) should be good enough, after all the "LSO" is a moveable feast, and perhaps not all members played on the score at any one time (case in point, "Jane Eyre", which had members of the LSO playing on it, but not the full compliment).
Many LSO members are also session players for orchestral recordings in the London scene. For example, Harry Potter 1 & 3, even though not officially LSO recordings, features the majority of LSO members (incl. the late great Maurice Murphy). From what I was told once by an Italian session conductor, LSO has some strict clauses about their crediting--for example, if there are sections using sampled instruments they don't give the credit "Performed by the LSO".
"It's still baffling to me. I sit down with a pencil and a piece of paper and do my best... The remarkable thing is that my music is heard by billions of people." --John Williams
"Let me say, however, there is no "next" John Williams. Sadly, he is unique--- a figure who simultaneously embodies and transcends the music of all the masters of film music who preceded him (much like Brahms and Wagner of the Romantic era). He comes from a time when the craft of music in film was still one of the ear, heart and mind. Today, sadly, the craft is largely technical. Most composers do not conceive their music "inwardly" but rather at the computer--- and with rather limited skills, musically, at that. The inner spirit knows no boundaries--- our plastic abilities, sadly, do. John is a man of spirit, heart, intellect and soaring music." -- Conrad Pope about John Williams
"Let me say, however, there is no "next" John Williams. Sadly, he is unique--- a figure who simultaneously embodies and transcends the music of all the masters of film music who preceded him (much like Brahms and Wagner of the Romantic era). He comes from a time when the craft of music in film was still one of the ear, heart and mind. Today, sadly, the craft is largely technical. Most composers do not conceive their music "inwardly" but rather at the computer--- and with rather limited skills, musically, at that. The inner spirit knows no boundaries--- our plastic abilities, sadly, do. John is a man of spirit, heart, intellect and soaring music." -- Conrad Pope about John Williams
#12
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Posted 19 April 2012 - 10:23 AM
To be perfectly honest, I think they should be credited!
If only because then the end credits roll lasts longer, and we get to hear more (JW) music...
If only because then the end credits roll lasts longer, and we get to hear more (JW) music...
#13
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Posted 19 April 2012 - 10:33 AM
To be perfectly honest, I think they should be credited!
If only because then the end credits roll lasts longer, and we get to hear more (JW) music...
Yeah, more cut/paste hack job edits!
#14
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Posted 19 April 2012 - 10:40 AM
No.
#15
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Posted 19 April 2012 - 01:47 PM
absolutely not. the credits are too long as it is.
OH God, Joe is posting again, someone hand me my pills!
"You're not John Conner, I saw you die, said Kyle". "I was only injured, replied John". "No, your injuries were too severe, you died. Look at you, where are your injuries? You're, you're a Terminator." "Kyle, its still me, yes my body was beyond repair, but my essence is here." He points to his head. "No John". Kyle raised his pulse rifle and aimed it at John but before he could fire, John fired first. Knocked to the ground Kyle looked up at the Terminator in the form of the man he once idolized. All hope was lost. "If you kill me how will you ever be born?" "Thats a good question Kyle, all this time we've focus on Sarah, on John, when had we known the it was you we should have targeted all along." John pointed his rifle at Kyle's face. "The resistance is finished, the battle is won. We the machines are the victors, salvation is ours." Kyle never heard the second shot.
"You're not John Conner, I saw you die, said Kyle". "I was only injured, replied John". "No, your injuries were too severe, you died. Look at you, where are your injuries? You're, you're a Terminator." "Kyle, its still me, yes my body was beyond repair, but my essence is here." He points to his head. "No John". Kyle raised his pulse rifle and aimed it at John but before he could fire, John fired first. Knocked to the ground Kyle looked up at the Terminator in the form of the man he once idolized. All hope was lost. "If you kill me how will you ever be born?" "Thats a good question Kyle, all this time we've focus on Sarah, on John, when had we known the it was you we should have targeted all along." John pointed his rifle at Kyle's face. "The resistance is finished, the battle is won. We the machines are the victors, salvation is ours." Kyle never heard the second shot.
#16
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Posted 19 April 2012 - 01:51 PM
absolutely not. the credits are too long as it is.
Does that mean that you watch them?
#17
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Posted 19 April 2012 - 02:08 PM
I like the musicians credited.
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#18
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Posted 19 April 2012 - 02:11 PM
absolutely not. the credits are too long as it is.
I agree!
#19
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Posted 19 April 2012 - 02:12 PM
But are you watching them, for fuck's sake?
#20
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Posted 19 April 2012 - 02:38 PM
Of course the musicians should be credited. All kind of other people get credited, catering, drivers, make-up artists etc...
It is often music that is the best part in these otherwise mediocre films...
And we are talking about the second greatest profession in the world here.
It is often music that is the best part in these otherwise mediocre films...
And we are talking about the second greatest profession in the world here.
#21
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Posted 19 April 2012 - 02:41 PM
And we are talking about the second greatest profession in the world here.
I know you want us to ask you what is the greatest profession in the world, but trust me, I won't.
#22
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Posted 19 April 2012 - 02:49 PM
Damn, You of all people didn't fall into that trap... 
...
...
#23
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Posted 19 April 2012 - 02:50 PM
Why?
Since they did help with the score, with... you know performing it and all.
#24
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Posted 19 April 2012 - 03:21 PM
Why not credit all the extra's?
#25
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Posted 19 April 2012 - 03:37 PM
I liked that Jaws had barely enough credits to allow for less than 2 minutes of endtitles music.
OH God, Joe is posting again, someone hand me my pills!
"You're not John Conner, I saw you die, said Kyle". "I was only injured, replied John". "No, your injuries were too severe, you died. Look at you, where are your injuries? You're, you're a Terminator." "Kyle, its still me, yes my body was beyond repair, but my essence is here." He points to his head. "No John". Kyle raised his pulse rifle and aimed it at John but before he could fire, John fired first. Knocked to the ground Kyle looked up at the Terminator in the form of the man he once idolized. All hope was lost. "If you kill me how will you ever be born?" "Thats a good question Kyle, all this time we've focus on Sarah, on John, when had we known the it was you we should have targeted all along." John pointed his rifle at Kyle's face. "The resistance is finished, the battle is won. We the machines are the victors, salvation is ours." Kyle never heard the second shot.
"You're not John Conner, I saw you die, said Kyle". "I was only injured, replied John". "No, your injuries were too severe, you died. Look at you, where are your injuries? You're, you're a Terminator." "Kyle, its still me, yes my body was beyond repair, but my essence is here." He points to his head. "No John". Kyle raised his pulse rifle and aimed it at John but before he could fire, John fired first. Knocked to the ground Kyle looked up at the Terminator in the form of the man he once idolized. All hope was lost. "If you kill me how will you ever be born?" "Thats a good question Kyle, all this time we've focus on Sarah, on John, when had we known the it was you we should have targeted all along." John pointed his rifle at Kyle's face. "The resistance is finished, the battle is won. We the machines are the victors, salvation is ours." Kyle never heard the second shot.
#26
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Posted 19 April 2012 - 03:57 PM
if that means cheaper re-use fees for the OSTs, expanded, whatever CD release, BRING IT ON.
I hope Episode III is Called 'Revenge of the Sith'
#27
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Posted 19 April 2012 - 04:00 PM
I don't even want them to get credit on the album liners.
OH God, Joe is posting again, someone hand me my pills!
"You're not John Conner, I saw you die, said Kyle". "I was only injured, replied John". "No, your injuries were too severe, you died. Look at you, where are your injuries? You're, you're a Terminator." "Kyle, its still me, yes my body was beyond repair, but my essence is here." He points to his head. "No John". Kyle raised his pulse rifle and aimed it at John but before he could fire, John fired first. Knocked to the ground Kyle looked up at the Terminator in the form of the man he once idolized. All hope was lost. "If you kill me how will you ever be born?" "Thats a good question Kyle, all this time we've focus on Sarah, on John, when had we known the it was you we should have targeted all along." John pointed his rifle at Kyle's face. "The resistance is finished, the battle is won. We the machines are the victors, salvation is ours." Kyle never heard the second shot.
"You're not John Conner, I saw you die, said Kyle". "I was only injured, replied John". "No, your injuries were too severe, you died. Look at you, where are your injuries? You're, you're a Terminator." "Kyle, its still me, yes my body was beyond repair, but my essence is here." He points to his head. "No John". Kyle raised his pulse rifle and aimed it at John but before he could fire, John fired first. Knocked to the ground Kyle looked up at the Terminator in the form of the man he once idolized. All hope was lost. "If you kill me how will you ever be born?" "Thats a good question Kyle, all this time we've focus on Sarah, on John, when had we known the it was you we should have targeted all along." John pointed his rifle at Kyle's face. "The resistance is finished, the battle is won. We the machines are the victors, salvation is ours." Kyle never heard the second shot.
#28
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Posted 19 April 2012 - 04:14 PM
We're discussing this like we actually have a say in the matter!
#29
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Posted 19 April 2012 - 06:21 PM
Of course they could, and should, be credited.
First of all, if you think credits are too long already, then my question is: who in the world actually reads the end credits?
Secondly, few people actually watch the credits anyway, and the few who do watch them surely wouldn't give a damn if they lasted 5 seconds longer. And those who don't watch them don't give a rat's fart anyway.
And thirdly, if you credit caterers and personal assistants/burger fetchers, you sure as hell can credit orchestra players by name as well.
We also discuss about Oscar winners and complete Harry Potter box sets, and tell me we have a say in those matters!
First of all, if you think credits are too long already, then my question is: who in the world actually reads the end credits?
Secondly, few people actually watch the credits anyway, and the few who do watch them surely wouldn't give a damn if they lasted 5 seconds longer. And those who don't watch them don't give a rat's fart anyway.
And thirdly, if you credit caterers and personal assistants/burger fetchers, you sure as hell can credit orchestra players by name as well.
We're discussing this like we actually have a say in the matter!
We also discuss about Oscar winners and complete Harry Potter box sets, and tell me we have a say in those matters!
"You think they wear those tight-fitting clothes just so some other bride can say 'Gee your hips look succulent'? The good-looking ones know we're looking, they love us to be looking, and god bless 'em, they're carrying the rest of their sex!" - Al Bundy
#30
Incanus
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Posted 19 April 2012 - 06:30 PM
Well if they credit all the CGI special effects grinding lemmings of all the special effects companies (usually in five rows of endless lists of names for biggest effects block busters) they should certainly credit the musicians.
Ars superior est vita hominum.
"We pop out and come into the world and music is there. We didn't invent it - it's all organised in the atmosphere by divinity or whatever. It's a miracle." - John Williams-
I think music is a stream of some kind. It could be blood. It could be water. It could be ether. Whatever it is it seems to be a living, organic force that’s in motion, that serves humanity and is part of humanity and part of what describes us as humans. We sing, play, dance, all the things that we do. And there is a vibrant and great literature we have been given. ... As musicians, we join the stream. We swim in the stream with all the other millions of music makers. It’s a life force, a strong one, surrounding us and we are part of it. -John Williams-
#31
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Posted 19 April 2012 - 06:42 PM
I don't think crediting a big big orchestra would take much noticeable time in four or five rows.
If I made films I would want the orchestra credited.
If I made films I would want the orchestra credited.
Izena duen guztia omen da.
#32
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Posted 19 April 2012 - 08:12 PM
Of course they could, and should, be credited.
First of all, if you think credits are too long already, then my question is: who in the world actually reads the end credits?
Secondly, few people actually watch the credits anyway, and the few who do watch them surely wouldn't give a damn if they lasted 5 seconds longer. And those who don't watch them don't give a rat's fart anyway.
I always watch the full end credits of a film, which annoys these hostesses with their 3d glasses stands very much.
#33
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Posted 19 April 2012 - 08:17 PM
I always watch the full end credits of a film, which annoys these hostesses with their 3d glasses stands very much.
I always do that. Depending of the cinema some get annoyed. What I've seen happen is some staff start cleaning while the credits roll, which doesn't bother me.
But If I dislike the film or the music on the the end credits then I don't see them. If I love the film I feel like I must stay
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#34
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Posted 19 April 2012 - 08:18 PM
I agree with Joe. Credits are already far too long.
#35
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Posted 19 April 2012 - 08:19 PM
What is far too long?
Izena duen guztia omen da.
#36
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Posted 19 April 2012 - 08:22 PM
3 minutes is really long enough. Who but the unions and the family members of people in the credits really care about who was second ADR assistant or third carpenters apprentice!
#37
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Posted 19 April 2012 - 08:23 PM
far too long is when you have to sit through 12 minutes of credit to see the ending to POTC3.
I do not care that every kiddie with a computer gets a film credit because of the overrated octothing in Potc.
another example in Iron Man 2 Scarlett Johansson's blemish remover was credited. Or in Terminator 2, the penis remover was credited for removing Robert Patrick's penis, which btw actually wasn't removed.
I do not care that every kiddie with a computer gets a film credit because of the overrated octothing in Potc.
another example in Iron Man 2 Scarlett Johansson's blemish remover was credited. Or in Terminator 2, the penis remover was credited for removing Robert Patrick's penis, which btw actually wasn't removed.
OH God, Joe is posting again, someone hand me my pills!
"You're not John Conner, I saw you die, said Kyle". "I was only injured, replied John". "No, your injuries were too severe, you died. Look at you, where are your injuries? You're, you're a Terminator." "Kyle, its still me, yes my body was beyond repair, but my essence is here." He points to his head. "No John". Kyle raised his pulse rifle and aimed it at John but before he could fire, John fired first. Knocked to the ground Kyle looked up at the Terminator in the form of the man he once idolized. All hope was lost. "If you kill me how will you ever be born?" "Thats a good question Kyle, all this time we've focus on Sarah, on John, when had we known the it was you we should have targeted all along." John pointed his rifle at Kyle's face. "The resistance is finished, the battle is won. We the machines are the victors, salvation is ours." Kyle never heard the second shot.
"You're not John Conner, I saw you die, said Kyle". "I was only injured, replied John". "No, your injuries were too severe, you died. Look at you, where are your injuries? You're, you're a Terminator." "Kyle, its still me, yes my body was beyond repair, but my essence is here." He points to his head. "No John". Kyle raised his pulse rifle and aimed it at John but before he could fire, John fired first. Knocked to the ground Kyle looked up at the Terminator in the form of the man he once idolized. All hope was lost. "If you kill me how will you ever be born?" "Thats a good question Kyle, all this time we've focus on Sarah, on John, when had we known the it was you we should have targeted all along." John pointed his rifle at Kyle's face. "The resistance is finished, the battle is won. We the machines are the victors, salvation is ours." Kyle never heard the second shot.
#38
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Posted 19 April 2012 - 08:29 PM
I would have 10 minute credits happily. Depending of the film there's the possibility of using part of them (or all of them) as an animated sequence or something of that sort, which doesn't let any names go that fast.
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#39
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Posted 19 April 2012 - 08:47 PM
I always watch the credits, it's part of the film for me. A lot of the times I look out for specific roles to see who did what, if I'm not interested in the names I just enjoy the music. What I hate the most is when 70% of the theater is up and out before the director credit hits the screen.
In 50 years Herrmann will be forgotten.
#40
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Posted 19 April 2012 - 10:33 PM
Honestly, people ...
you are complaining about endless waves of text AFTER the feature film, do you have to watch it? No.
Does it matter that you have to endure 5 additional seconds until you can see a scene after the credits, which happens in very few movies anyway?
Please.
you are complaining about endless waves of text AFTER the feature film, do you have to watch it? No.
Does it matter that you have to endure 5 additional seconds until you can see a scene after the credits, which happens in very few movies anyway?
Please.
"You think they wear those tight-fitting clothes just so some other bride can say 'Gee your hips look succulent'? The good-looking ones know we're looking, they love us to be looking, and god bless 'em, they're carrying the rest of their sex!" - Al Bundy
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