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James Horner - The Amazing Spider-man

Started by Jason LeBlanc, May 22 2012 08:05 PM
James Horner

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#201 KK.

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Posted 18 June 2012 - 07:56 PM

The love theme is easily the least memorable part of the Amazing Spider-man score to me. Wait, does The Lizard even have a theme?


I actually liked the love theme. Its not as big and memorable as Horner's past romantic ideas, but I really liked how it plays out in the score.

And no, Lizard doesn't seem to have a significant theme (based on first listen), but we ought to be grateful that Horner didn't rip out the danger motif as his theme instead. dadada DAAA!

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#202 Koray Savas

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Posted 18 June 2012 - 08:08 PM

It'll probably be in the film.

In 50 years Herrmann will be forgotten.

#203 Jason LeBlanc

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Posted 18 June 2012 - 08:09 PM

It's not.
-Jay
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#204 Koray Savas

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Posted 18 June 2012 - 08:12 PM

You've seen it then?

In 50 years Herrmann will be forgotten.

#205 Miles Prower

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Posted 18 June 2012 - 08:15 PM

It's not.


And you know this... how?
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#206 Jason LeBlanc

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Posted 18 June 2012 - 08:15 PM

The same way I know what the chronological order is!
-Jay
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#207 Koray Savas

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Posted 18 June 2012 - 08:20 PM

You've seen it then?


In 50 years Herrmann will be forgotten.

#208 BloodBoal

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Posted 18 June 2012 - 08:20 PM

OH MY GOD! Jason LeBlanc is James Horner!

#209 KK.

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Posted 18 June 2012 - 08:30 PM

OH MY GOD! Jason LeBlanc is James Horner!


I knew it! They said I was crazy!! But I was right!!! Look!! See?!? I'm not crazy! LeBlanc is Horner I tell you!

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#210 Michael

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Posted 18 June 2012 - 09:20 PM

*Danger motif plays*
If you start taking yourself seriously, then you’re in deep trouble! - Jerry Goldsmith

#211 Ro Sajooc

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Posted 18 June 2012 - 10:25 PM

OH MY GOD! Jason LeBlanc is James Horner!



"I get asked all the time, 'What happens after Return of the Jedi?,' and there really is no answer for that. The movies were the story of Anakin Skywalker and Luke Skywalker, and when Luke saves the galaxy and redeems his father, that's where that story ends."

- George Lucas

#212 Incanus

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 04:29 AM


Horner's use of voices in The Amazing Spiderman is another interesting element, a bit more unorthodox than regular cooing choirs, those nearly chanting, grunting male voices, the distant almost Avatar styled cries in the main titles and child soprano are something I didn't quite expect to encounter in a Spiderman score but they work surprisingly well as another shading and colour in the palette of the score.

The more intimate moments are lovely as well with genuine emotion and warmth, the Rooftop Kiss a prime example of this.


Strange... I thought this score has one of the most unmemorable love themes I've ever heard!

Actually I never said the intimate music was thematically memorable, just genuinely warm. And Horner usually focuses on the main theme in his scores anyway. I seem to remember him saying that he feels that too many themes bog the score down and confuse the audience. Horner also did eschew a villain theme in Avatar (aside from the danger motif signalling death).They obviously wanted to really to emphasize the Spiderman theme in the score which does not mean that I would not have wanted to hear a memorable Love theme and a good Villain theme in there since modern scores could do with a bit more of both.

Anyway I think it will take a few more listens to spot everything thematically.

Ars superior est vita hominum.

"We pop out and come into the world and music is there. We didn't invent it - it's all organised in the atmosphere by divinity or whatever. It's a miracle." - John Williams-

I think music is a stream of some kind. It could be blood. It could be water. It could be ether. Whatever it is it seems to be a living, organic force that’s in motion, that serves humanity and is part of humanity and part of what describes us as humans. We sing, play, dance, all the things that we do. And there is a vibrant and great literature we have been given. ... As musicians, we join the stream. We swim in the stream with all the other millions of music makers. It’s a life force, a strong one, surrounding us and we are part of it. -John Williams-

#213 Hlao-roo

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 05:29 AM

I seem to remember him saying that he feels that too many themes bog the score down and confuse the audience.


Definitely. When a composer pens multiple themes for the same film, he dilutes the communicative power and clarity of his music. Goldsmith understood the zero-sum relationship of thematic ideas within an individual score; Williams's most serious flaw as a film composer is that he does not.

#214 crocodile

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 08:38 AM

I'm not sure if that's sarcasm or not, Alan, but yeah, I could agree with that. And yes, Goldsmith would be a good example.

Karol
From a storytelling point of view, from a directing point of view, there is one thing I associate with what he does, which is calm. There is such an inherent calm and inherent trust of the one powerful image, that he makes me embarrassed with my own work, in terms of how many different shots, how many different sound effects, how many different things we’ll throw at an audience to make an impression. But with Kubrick, there is such a great trust of the one correct image to calmly explain something to audience. There can be some slowness to the editing. There’s nothing frenetic about it. It’s very simple. There’s a trust in simple storytelling and simple image making that actually takes massive confidence to try and emulate. - Christopher Nolan

#215 publicist

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 09:41 AM

Goldsmith was less successful, though.
You wouldn't see a subtle plan if it painted itself purple and danced naked on top of a harpsichord, singing "Subtle Plans Are Here Again."

#216 crocodile

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 09:46 AM

And yet, ironically, his albums sell like no other composer's.

Not that it has anything to do with your point. ;)

Karol
From a storytelling point of view, from a directing point of view, there is one thing I associate with what he does, which is calm. There is such an inherent calm and inherent trust of the one powerful image, that he makes me embarrassed with my own work, in terms of how many different shots, how many different sound effects, how many different things we’ll throw at an audience to make an impression. But with Kubrick, there is such a great trust of the one correct image to calmly explain something to audience. There can be some slowness to the editing. There’s nothing frenetic about it. It’s very simple. There’s a trust in simple storytelling and simple image making that actually takes massive confidence to try and emulate. - Christopher Nolan

#217 Incanus

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 10:01 AM

And yet, ironically, his albums sell like no other composer's.

Not that it has anything to do with your point. ;)

Karol

Ironically his albums sell like no other composer's in a very limited circle of fans.

Not that it has anything to do with your point. ;)

Ars superior est vita hominum.

"We pop out and come into the world and music is there. We didn't invent it - it's all organised in the atmosphere by divinity or whatever. It's a miracle." - John Williams-

I think music is a stream of some kind. It could be blood. It could be water. It could be ether. Whatever it is it seems to be a living, organic force that’s in motion, that serves humanity and is part of humanity and part of what describes us as humans. We sing, play, dance, all the things that we do. And there is a vibrant and great literature we have been given. ... As musicians, we join the stream. We swim in the stream with all the other millions of music makers. It’s a life force, a strong one, surrounding us and we are part of it. -John Williams-

#218 publicist

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 10:12 AM

Especially if we talk about 3000 CD's.

Williams is a better showman, Goldsmith was, i think, better at capturing the inner workings of the film's plot.

To stay on topic, Horner's approach is often more akin to JG's single-theme plus different motifs approach but while JG mostly modelled his motifs and rhythms on his main tune, Horner often does not.

In SPIDERMAN, unfortunately, most of the action music not offering the main theme is just the same loud and obnoxious drivel we get in most of these films. Horner must have done this really with a chip on his shoulder.
You wouldn't see a subtle plan if it painted itself purple and danced naked on top of a harpsichord, singing "Subtle Plans Are Here Again."

#219 BloodBoal

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 10:12 AM


And yet, ironically, his albums sell like no other composer's.

Not that it has anything to do with your point. ;)

Karol

Ironically his albums sell like no other composer's in a very limited circle of fans.

Not that it has anything to do with your point. ;)


I like eating strawberries.

Not that it has anything to do with your point. ;)

#220 publicist

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 10:13 AM



And yet, ironically, his albums sell like no other composer's.

Not that it has anything to do with your point. ;)

Karol

Ironically his albums sell like no other composer's in a very limited circle of fans.

Not that it has anything to do with your point. ;)


I like eating strawberries.

Not that it has anything to do with your point. ;)


Strawberries suck. Especially spanish ones.
You wouldn't see a subtle plan if it painted itself purple and danced naked on top of a harpsichord, singing "Subtle Plans Are Here Again."

#221 BloodBoal

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 10:22 AM

How dare you? Strawberries are probably one of the best fruits around. Every time I eat a strawberry, it's like there's a party in my mouth, and everyone is invited.

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 10:28 AM

Does everyone take the invitation and comes into your mouth, then?
You wouldn't see a subtle plan if it painted itself purple and danced naked on top of a harpsichord, singing "Subtle Plans Are Here Again."

#223 BloodBoal

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 10:30 AM

Yeah. Why? Do you want an invitation?

#224 Chaac

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 10:35 AM

Love strawberries.

Izena duen guztia omen da.

#225 alicebrallice

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 10:48 AM

wild strawberries are amazing.

#226 Incanus

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 11:04 AM

The way this thread derailed is amazing. No on second thought it is amazing it has not derailed sooner.

Ars superior est vita hominum.

"We pop out and come into the world and music is there. We didn't invent it - it's all organised in the atmosphere by divinity or whatever. It's a miracle." - John Williams-

I think music is a stream of some kind. It could be blood. It could be water. It could be ether. Whatever it is it seems to be a living, organic force that’s in motion, that serves humanity and is part of humanity and part of what describes us as humans. We sing, play, dance, all the things that we do. And there is a vibrant and great literature we have been given. ... As musicians, we join the stream. We swim in the stream with all the other millions of music makers. It’s a life force, a strong one, surrounding us and we are part of it. -John Williams-

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 11:24 AM

Yeah. Why? Do you want an invitation?


I'm wrestling with myself...
You wouldn't see a subtle plan if it painted itself purple and danced naked on top of a harpsichord, singing "Subtle Plans Are Here Again."

#228 Richard Penna

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 11:32 AM

In SPIDERMAN, unfortunately, most of the action music not offering the main theme is just the same loud and obnoxious drivel we get in most of these films. Horner must have done this really with a chip on his shoulder.


There is a bit of that, but I noticed that in, for example, Oscorp Tower, take away that 'clicking' going on in the foreground and it's solid orchestral work underneath.

#229 publicist

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 11:43 AM

Is that the kind of music you initially wanted to hear more of when you became a film music fan?

In SPIDERMAN we get large doses of awe-and-wonder piano á la BEAUTIFUL MIND (and you know what 'á la' means when talking about Horner), some pleasing renditions of a big horn theme for the hero which is good and well, lots of padding and action music without much replay value. Some cues are nice but as an album, it's very mundane.
You wouldn't see a subtle plan if it painted itself purple and danced naked on top of a harpsichord, singing "Subtle Plans Are Here Again."

#230 Chaac

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 11:45 AM

I have similar feelings about it.

Izena duen guztia omen da.

#231 crocodile

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 01:42 PM

Nah, it is much better than that, especially after few more listens.

I still can't hear any plagiarism. Must be a miracle.

Karol
From a storytelling point of view, from a directing point of view, there is one thing I associate with what he does, which is calm. There is such an inherent calm and inherent trust of the one powerful image, that he makes me embarrassed with my own work, in terms of how many different shots, how many different sound effects, how many different things we’ll throw at an audience to make an impression. But with Kubrick, there is such a great trust of the one correct image to calmly explain something to audience. There can be some slowness to the editing. There’s nothing frenetic about it. It’s very simple. There’s a trust in simple storytelling and simple image making that actually takes massive confidence to try and emulate. - Christopher Nolan

#232 Chaac

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 01:45 PM

Maybe Webb just went "not no that, do something else" all the time. I would.

Izena duen guztia omen da.

#233 crocodile

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 01:49 PM

He must have hired someone with PhD in Hornerology. It's too much for lesser people, you know.

Karol
From a storytelling point of view, from a directing point of view, there is one thing I associate with what he does, which is calm. There is such an inherent calm and inherent trust of the one powerful image, that he makes me embarrassed with my own work, in terms of how many different shots, how many different sound effects, how many different things we’ll throw at an audience to make an impression. But with Kubrick, there is such a great trust of the one correct image to calmly explain something to audience. There can be some slowness to the editing. There’s nothing frenetic about it. It’s very simple. There’s a trust in simple storytelling and simple image making that actually takes massive confidence to try and emulate. - Christopher Nolan

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 01:51 PM

And ended up with half of his score populated by BEAUTIFUL MIND-leftovers? American PhD's don't account for much, then.
You wouldn't see a subtle plan if it painted itself purple and danced naked on top of a harpsichord, singing "Subtle Plans Are Here Again."

#235 crocodile

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 02:05 PM

I can't hear any A Beautiful Mind in there, sorry. I know what you mean but that doesn't count - not close enough. But... there is a lot of Bicentennial Man and Deep Impact in A Beautiful Mind.

Karol
From a storytelling point of view, from a directing point of view, there is one thing I associate with what he does, which is calm. There is such an inherent calm and inherent trust of the one powerful image, that he makes me embarrassed with my own work, in terms of how many different shots, how many different sound effects, how many different things we’ll throw at an audience to make an impression. But with Kubrick, there is such a great trust of the one correct image to calmly explain something to audience. There can be some slowness to the editing. There’s nothing frenetic about it. It’s very simple. There’s a trust in simple storytelling and simple image making that actually takes massive confidence to try and emulate. - Christopher Nolan

#236 KK.

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 02:10 PM

A Beautiful Mind is in there, but there are no direct quotes of anything as former Horner scores have done.

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#237 crocodile

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 02:20 PM

That's what I mean. In my book "this-and-this score is in there" means direct lifts. A general approach/intrumentation doesn't count. Every single composer does that.

Karol
From a storytelling point of view, from a directing point of view, there is one thing I associate with what he does, which is calm. There is such an inherent calm and inherent trust of the one powerful image, that he makes me embarrassed with my own work, in terms of how many different shots, how many different sound effects, how many different things we’ll throw at an audience to make an impression. But with Kubrick, there is such a great trust of the one correct image to calmly explain something to audience. There can be some slowness to the editing. There’s nothing frenetic about it. It’s very simple. There’s a trust in simple storytelling and simple image making that actually takes massive confidence to try and emulate. - Christopher Nolan

#238 Blumenkohl

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 02:23 PM



And ended up with half of his score populated by BEAUTIFUL MIND-leftovers? American PhD's don't account for much, then.


That's style not leftovers.

#239 KK.

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 02:32 PM

That's what I mean. In my book "this-and-this score is in there" means direct lifts. A general approach/intrumentation doesn't count. Every single composer does that.

Karol


Oh I agree, I'm quite pleased with this score in terms of originality.

Music Muse Reviews: "Escape From Tomorrow by Abel Korzeniowski

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 02:51 PM


And ended up with half of his score populated by BEAUTIFUL MIND-leftovers? American PhD's don't account for much, then.


That's style not leftovers.


Who cares what label you attach to it, it's hugely familiar and, IMHO, boring.
You wouldn't see a subtle plan if it painted itself purple and danced naked on top of a harpsichord, singing "Subtle Plans Are Here Again."
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